China All Su-35 news

[rcrmj]

What logic your an epic fail like your counterparts on this thread.

the fact is India cannt make modern plan as simple as that, prove otherwise

 

[tvsram1992]

Sure we can, we're just wait to use as bargain against South Tibet...The water valve can be tighten any time, remember this water on China's side is China property...we can do what ever we want.

You can try if u wanna lose North Tawang

Yes, half of Mongol is part of China..Manchu is part of China..manchuirans and Inner Mongolians are our brothers and sisters...you have prove nothing...

The same applies to our muslims and christians . How funny would it be if i mention Mongols and Manchus are ur masters

as for Japaneses...they got nuked as rewards...someone revenge for us and we have clean hands...isn't that wonderfull.

wtf are u talking? do u have mind? They got nuked because they attacked you .

 

[Hello_10]

A great fighter on the paper only indeed!!!

See, we usually see even Jf17 beating F16 block52 on PDF while China itself don’t buy JF17 and produce J10s only. while, one day I asked on PDF, “why do Pakistan pay twice for F16 block 52 than J10s while F16s also come with many US’s political strings attached with it?” not only Pakistani members but even Indian sources claim that their LCA mk2 will be even in comparison to Rafale F3 but its obvious that India won’t pay over 2 times for Rafale if the claims are true. Similarly, except Chinese source, I haven’t read J10s superior than even F16 block 52 anywhere while F16 block 52 was of the generation of Mirage2000-5 mk2 while production line of Rafale was opened as a ‘next gen option’, 4++, when French closed production lines of Mirage2000. I also argued many times, “why Indian defense experts were agreed to pay over $70mil for just upgrading their old Mirage2000s while F16 block52 was offered to IAF since 2006, at a lesser price than what they are paying for upgrading of Mirage2000?” We always have enough comparison among all the 4th gen aircrafts but the certain differences do exist. But about Su35BM/ SU30MKIs, it is considered as the biggest threat for US right now, while measuring comparative performance of latest US’s aircrafts

Part of the presentation showed a computer simulation which calculated that the F-35 would be consistently defeated by the Russian-made SU-35 fighter aircraft. The defeat calculated by the scenario also showed the loss of the F-35's supporting airborne-early warning and air-to-air refueling aircraft.

Independent air combat analysts from Air Power Australia have also stated that the F-35 is not capable of facing high end threats; that what will be delivered (if it ever arrives) will be obsolete; and that the F-35 is not affordable or sustainable.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4416.html

Similarly S-400 is among the high end side of air defense and Russia won’t export it so easily, even if China wants it they may have to wait for it for next 4-5 years until Russia may reach final stage of development of S-500. But yes Chinese arm industry has been improved enough till now and we hope they would produce one of the best aircrafts and other defense arms after just 8 to 10 years from now. But as US is itself struggling with development of F35, while it is believed that F22 is good due to having stealth techs only but it lacks many other 'competent' capabilities for what their engineers are struggling with F35 also right now, therefore, it is still doubtful how much Russia or China will be able to make a better 5th gen stealth aircraft than US’s, as, US’s arm industry isn’t backward to either Russia or China . US is facing serious problems with F35 at its final stage of development while Russia and China are still on the early stage of development of their 5th gen aircrafts?

Hence, I would advice China to buy as many Su35 and S-400 as they can and then they would try for something the best by themselves also. And why not, Russia/ SU has been the only source of defense techs for China in past, whether for 2nd gen aircrafts like Mig21 or 4th gen Su27 etc, till now China always copied Russian tech, so why not now. But yes, everyone copy others techs, Japanese copy German techs and German copy Japanese/ US’s techs. And we hope China will be able to make something soon which others will copy from China in future. All the best

 

[killerx]

wow that good now indian SU30MKI is would be think twice invading chinas air space

 

[DARKY]

How about CAC employees. As far as I know the stuff they released are far more accurate than any Western source or other Chinese sources so far. The AESA on the J-11B are greater than 1200 modules although we do not know the number. The individual modules allow the J-11B's radar to jam, a portion of the modules can be allotted for that. Seeing how the J-11B has more powerful powerplants, the power rating of the AESA is dependent on its platform, not the AESA itself.

I can show you pictures of the J-11Bs with WS-10 engines. And as far as I know no pilot ever mentioned it.

No the power ratings are primarily dependent on the Radar Itself... the power plant comes as secondary after cooling.
The PLAAF pilot publically complained about lack of Thrust and poor acceleration performances besides the low TBO and serviceability issues which have surfaced from time to time.

Better Show me a picture of J-11B with AESA... or have you seen for yourself.. or your military insider ?

Superior engine? In what? Lower thrust? Avionics? The Su-30MKI's and Rafale's radar have a lower channel count than the J-11B, and with the J-11B employing more powerful powerplants, I expect its power rating to be higher as well. Jammers, as far as I know, are integrated separately int he Su-30MKI and with a smaller radar I don't know how you arrived at the theory that the Rafale will have better jammers. And have you seen PLAAF pilots? If not, then you have no basis for that theory. Kinematic performance will be in J-11B's favor simply due to more powerful engines and a lighter airframe.

Superior engine in terms of better core temperature, Higher sustained thrust without using AB, better acceleration performances, Higher TBO, Higher service life, TVC, to name a few.
You can compare the color of flame produced by J-11B engine and Su30MKI engine to give you an idea of core and Inlet temperature.

What made you conclude that Su30MKI radar have lower channel count ?.... Rafale radar is smaller due to nose size... while Su30MKI radar is 990mm biggest in all flanker varies and all combat planes.... and the channel count is about 1700 modules/phase shifters

Yes I have seen PLAAF pilots.. none pull out a supersonic thanche.. or on axis turns or a high speed split... If they do.. then show me a video of J-11 pulling 80degress AOA at high speed....

 

[tvsram1992]

wow that good now indian SU30MKI is would be think twice invading chinas air space

and PAKFA will think once to attack China twice

 

[Hello_10]

wow that good now indian SU30MKI is would be think twice invading chinas air space

It is always advised to India on the international platform for not to create problems for China, until they face any real threat from China, at the same time there is no proof that China was ever interested in getting engaged with India directly, even in 1972 or 1999 war between India-Pak, China had almost zero interests with India. So it is believed that China won’t get engaged with India until they will really have to, as even on the border issues, there is no sign that China ever tried to fight with India since 1962.

China would always be put on the front against US and yes China can do the work if we all support them . Just have a look on the number of political problems/ wars etc on the international platform, China always proves itself worthy for the developing nations for putting a good resistance against US/ West. Whatever work India or Russia won’t like to do, like transferring different defense techs etc to anti US countries, China does it freely and make it easy for the rest of the world to have a power balance in world . Russia believes in a power balance in this world which isn’t possible without putting a powerful China against US/ West. Even on the trade level, in WTO etc, we find BRICS is almost nothing without China. China creates as much problems to the Western aggression, on war and trade front both, that they just don’t get enough time to think about other countries like India. Even if Indian companies could grow so freely during last 20 years then they also got enough help from China. As, when China copy a technology, they make if so cheaply with mass production of it that West never thought what happened next to those techs, making it very easy for the Indian companies also to do research on those techs. (And yes Indian companies were also benefitted by those Indian professionals who first performed excellent for different Western MNCs and then they worked for Indian companies with bringing their experiences and developed high techs for them.) until China will remain the enemy number one for US/ West, they will consider the country like India good. Just look on the dramas about Syria/ Iran, can India support Iran and Syria if China/ Russia start supporting US? The answer is simply No,, then how is it advisable to engage a country like China on regional politics if the developing world wants China on the international platform?

I remember, even if Russia wasn’t getting good money but they preferred to transfer even the whole production line of SU27 to China in late 90s when Russian economy suffered a serious loss in between 1990 to 1999. It was because, even if China is a neighboring country of Russia and have also fought with Russia in past, today we find West/ US so friendly with Russia/ India only because now China is their number one enemy, otherwise till Cold War, it was Russia+India on the gun point of US . US/ West always have someone on their gun point and their policy makers always try to get something done somewhere, either this or that way. and as they are worried for this dramaticaly changing world, its the good luck for the country like India that there is a China. What I told to Indian members many times, if China might not be so big threat to US, US wasn’t going to offer their best arms to India . And if China may proves itself to be capable enough to even beat US’s arms, we will see US to be willing to sell whatever defense arms they have to India, as we see right now also .

There is an excessive benefits of Rise of China for most of non NATO countries including India/ Russia and yes China is doing a very good job, we just have to keep supporting China's rise

 

[Akasa]

No the power ratings are primarily dependent on the Radar Itself... the power plant comes as secondary after cooling.
The PLAAF pilot publically complained about lack of Thrust and poor acceleration performances besides the low TBO and serviceability issues which have surfaced from time to time.

Better Show me a picture of J-11B with AESA... or have you seen for yourself.. or your military insider ?

There is no point in having a large radar power rating if you can't deliver enough juice. Anyways, seeing how they have managed to pack the modules efficiently and thoroughly and their experience in such radars, I think their power ratings should be decent purely on a technological basis.

As far as I know the WS-10A specifications according to the airshow was 132 kN, higher than that of the Al-31, and also has a longer service hour. What you are referring to are the original ones that have already been fixed.

The J-11B's AESA was confirmed by military insiders as well as a recent exhibition. You can believe it or not but so far almost all of the information talked by the insiders have been accurate. If they were able to announce the J-20 two years in advanced, I have no doubt their AESA talk are accurate as well.

Superior engine in terms of better core temperature, Higher sustained thrust without using AB, better acceleration performances, Higher TBO, Higher service life, TVC, to name a few.
You can compare the color of flame produced by J-11B engine and Su30MKI engine to give you an idea of core and Inlet temperature.

What made you conclude that Su30MKI radar have lower channel count ?.... Rafale radar is smaller due to nose size... while Su30MKI radar is 990mm biggest in all flanker varies and all combat planes.... and the channel count is about 1700 modules/phase shifters

Yes I have seen PLAAF pilots.. none pull out a supersonic thanche.. or on axis turns or a high speed split... If they do.. then show me a video of J-11 pulling 80degress AOA at high speed....

We do not know the non afterburning thrusts of the WS-10 or Al-31, so hold off until we get further information. Acceleration depends on thrust to weight ratio, and with the J-11B's airframe being 700 kg lighter than other Flanker due to composites, the J-11B's thrust to weight ratio will be much higher than that of the Su-30MKI. The J-11B engine produces a blue flame. PLAAF never publicizes its exercises, so we do not know whether they did those stunts or not. The Su-30MKI uses a Zhuk AE, the base variant of which uses 680 modules. The largest variant uses 1000 modules, but that is still lower than that of the J-10B's radar, which is smaller than the one used on PLAAF heavy fighters

 

[DARKY]

There is no point in having a large radar power rating if you can't deliver enough juice. Anyways, seeing how they have managed to pack the modules efficiently and thoroughly and their experience in such radars, I think their power ratings should be decent purely on a technological basis.

As far as I know the WS-10A specifications according to the airshow was 132 kN, higher than that of the Al-31, and also has a longer service hour. What you are referring to are the original ones that have already been fixed.

The J-11B's AESA was confirmed by military insiders as well as a recent exhibition. You can believe it or not but so far almost all of the information talked by the insiders have been accurate. If they were able to announce the J-20 two years in advanced, I have no doubt their AESA talk are accurate as well.

The efficiency of a Radar is determined with Power and Aperture product... you need to have modules with higher rating.. the GaAs transistors can't deliver as high power as a GaN transistor... do you know how much power the engine produces in comparison to what is required by the Radar... and other electronics ?

Al-31 have different variants... Al-31FN-M3 produces thrust as high as 155kN... which would be installed on Su30MKI as the upgrade.

Nothing new with that... even I predicted Russians to show their plane by 2009-10.

We do not know the non afterburning thrusts of the WS-10 or Al-31, so hold off until we get further information. Acceleration depends on thrust to weight ratio, and with the J-11B's airframe being 700 kg lighter than other Flanker due to composites, the J-11B's thrust to weight ratio will be much higher than that of the Su-30MKI. The J-11B engine produces a blue flame. PLAAF never publicizes its exercises, so we do not know whether they did those stunts or not. The Su-30MKI uses a Zhuk AE, the base variant of which uses 680 modules. The largest variant uses 1000 modules, but that is still lower than that of the J-10B's radar, which is smaller than the one used on PLAAF heavy fighters

Acceleration depends of fuel burn rate performance, T/W ratio of Engine, Amount of air Intake, core and intake temperature.. etc..Al-31 T/W ratio for the later variants is 10 and for WS-10 its 9.... the latest variants of Al-31 has T/W ratio as high as 10.5...

Show me the picture of J-11B with After Burners.

Neither does IAF publicize its exercise... but they pull 80+ degrees AOA with Su30 in public.. PLAAF too shows maneuvers with J-10.... show me a similar public performance of J-11.. If you don't have of any exercise.

Su30MKI doesn't use Zhuk AE... But It would be upgraded with Zhuk ASE with 1700 T/R modules rated at 20/25 watts per channel... even BARs has around 1700 modules.

 

[Akasa]

The efficiency of a Radar is determined with Power and Aperture product... you need to have modules with higher rating.. the GaAs transistors can't deliver as high power as a GaN transistor... do you know how much power the engine produces in comparison to what is required by the Radar... and other electronics ?

Al-31 have different variants... Al-31FN-M3 produces thrust as high as 155kN... which would be installed on Su30MKI as the upgrade.

Nothing new with that... even I predicted Russians to show their plane by 2009-10.

And how do you know that the Su-30MKI's has higher power rating than the one on the J-11B?

The engine you mentioned has a maximum thrust of 14.5 tons, not 155 kN, and show me the source that said what you said.

Acceleration depends of fuel burn rate performance, T/W ratio of Engine, Amount of air Intake, core and intake temperature.. etc..Al-31 T/W ratio for the later variants is 10 and for WS-10 its 9.... the latest variants of Al-31 has T/W ratio as high as 10.5...

Show me the picture of J-11B with After Burners.

Neither does IAF publicize its exercise... but they pull 80+ degrees AOA with Su30 in public.. PLAAF too shows maneuvers with J-10.... show me a similar public performance of J-11.. If you don't have of any exercise.

Su30MKI doesn't use Zhuk AE... But It would be upgraded with Zhuk ASE with 1700 T/R modules rated at 20/25 watts per channel... even BARs has around 1700 modules.

Acceleration of the aircraft is decided by the aircraft thrust to weight ratio since the airframes play a big part. The J-11B uses a lightened airframe that saves over 700 kg. So far the Su-30MKI hasn't incorporated that kind of lightening yet.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

So then we can not say the J-11B can't do the maneuvers the Su-30MKI did.

The ASE was an estimate and it is not built yet; and show me the source

 

[DARKY]

And how do you know that the Su-30MKI's has higher power rating than the one on the J-11B?

The engine you mentioned has a maximum thrust of 14.5 tons, not 155 kN, and show me the source that said what you said.

Power aperture product of Bars stand at 36-38dBWm2... I leave you for comparison... The Al-31FN-M-2 has 145kN and Al-31FN-M-3 has thrust figures as High as 150kN+5kN to be used on purpose.

Acceleration of the aircraft is decided by the aircraft thrust to weight ratio since the airframes play a big part. The J-11B uses a lightened airframe that saves over 700 kg. So far the Su-30MKI hasn't incorporated that kind of lightening yet.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

So then we can not say the J-11B can't do the maneuvers the Su-30MKI did.

The ASE was an estimate and it is not built yet; and show me the source

The T/W ratio of engines matters more.
I asked about J-11B picture with Afterburners not some random engine photo.
Yes J-11B cannot do such maneuvers... clearly incapable and not build for such thing.
ASE is currently being put on Su30MKI as we speak... you can look any where on internet.... the calculation of Zhuk-AE for 990mm nose would give you figures around 1700... If improvements in packing wouldn't have improved in all these years.

 

[Akasa]

Power aperture product of Bars stand at 36-38dBWm2... I leave you for comparison... The Al-31FN-M-2 has 145kN and Al-31FN-M-3 has thrust figures as High as 150kN+5kN to be used on purpose.

And yet you did not post the source that said the Su-30MKI will use these engines.

The T/W ratio of engines matters more.
I asked about J-11B picture with Afterburners not some random engine photo.
Yes J-11B cannot do such maneuvers... clearly incapable and not build for such thing.
ASE is currently being put on Su30MKI as we speak... you can look any where on internet.... the calculation of Zhuk-AE for 990mm nose would give you figures around 1700... If improvements in packing wouldn't have improved in all these years.

Just because you haven't seen J-11B do these maneuvers doesn't mean it is not able to do so. Heck, we have not even seen the J-10 drop weapons yet, so you automatically assume that it can't? I posted photos of the J-11B engines. The thrust to weight ratio of an engine does not matter; an engine with thrust to weight ratio of 10 in a 16 ton aircraft will still provide less maneuverability than an engine with thrust to weight of 6 in a 7 ton aircraft. I looked everywhere and I did not read that the Su-30MKI was getting ASE.

 

[ejaz007]

[SIZE=5]Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China[/SIZE]


Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow’s demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

“Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing,” a Russian government source told Kommesant.

China has a poor record concerning copycat manufacturing of advanced Russian combat aircraft.

Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum.

The Su-35, powered by two 117S engines with thrust vectoring, combines high maneuverability and the capability to effectively engage several air targets simultaneously using both guided and unguided missiles and weapon systems.

The aircraft has been touted as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology."


Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China | World | RIA Novosti

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

[SIZE=5]Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China[/SIZE]


Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow’s demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

“Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing,” a Russian government source told Kommesant.

China has a poor record concerning copycat manufacturing of advanced Russian combat aircraft.

Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum.

The Su-35, powered by two 117S engines with thrust vectoring, combines high maneuverability and the capability to effectively engage several air targets simultaneously using both guided and unguided missiles and weapon systems.

The aircraft has been touted as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology."


Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China | World | RIA Novosti

Are you FU@@ING out ouf your mind?? J-10 is a copy of SU-27???

LOL, this news is nothing but pure B.S !!!!

Oh, just wait until 2012. The deal "will" be signed, then 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 ..........................................

 

[qwerrty]

Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China

Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum. http://en.rian.ru/world/20120306/171780246.html

so this is confirmed BS..
LOL @ the so called russian experts
i can understand why many people here don't take stuff from russian mouths seriously.