Russia still has a clear lead for the time being. China has achieved self sufficiency but let’s not overstate things.
What "clear lead"?
Please explain your reasoning in detail.
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Russia still has a clear lead for the time being. China has achieved self sufficiency but let’s not overstate things.
What "clear lead"?
Please explain your reasoning in detail.
"Haven't seen" and "hasn't happened" are distinct concepts. Even granting that the izd. 30's testing is ahead, the difference isn't sufficient to give Russia a clear lead. The difficulties you mentioned with China's engine program are significant, but the sums China has invested in the field (most notably since the establishment of AECC) are far greater than Russia's.China hasn’t equipped WS-10B with comparable performance to AL-31FN series 3 on the J-10 series until last year. They didn’t resolve the relatively long spool up time for the WS-10 until the late 2010s as well. To date we haven’t seen WS-15 equipping any J-20 prototypes whereas a Su-57 has flown with its final engine.
There is no way China would turn back to Russia for engine dependency on their pre-eminent fighter especially after just switching to WS-10 in the past 3 years. And considering that the latest WS-10 is already on par with the 117S, I don't see why the WS-15 cannot come close or possibly even exceed the Izd 30 engine. Note the Izd 30 has already been in flight testing since late 2017 and has barely moved a needle in terms of progress. Both countries, China and Russia, used clean sheet designs in their newest generation gas turbines (WS-15/Izd 30), so the footing should be much more equal.I presume, there is a lot that can be learned from having a working engine, with the goal capabilities, then not having the engine at all. Figuring out the manufacturing technique will still pose a challenge, as we have seen with the WS-10 engines and the years China has been operating the Al-31 Class of engines, but it helps the overall development. At the very least, once Russia sells the 180kn class engines to China it will be more likely to sell them for use in the J-20 directly. China may take 3, 5, even 10 years to catch up, but in the mean times they will be learning from operating the Russian engines and investing as much as is needed to reverse engineer it (by hook or crook) as is needed.
Is the Izdeliye engine with 40,000lb perfected yet? The last I heard, T-50 both prototypes are fitted with AL-41F engines. If Izdeliye is still in development stage, WS-15 might be ready sooner due to better funding and resources.
The Indian border, PLAAF finds IAF threat as low compared to east and south east border where there's threat from US. IAF kept asking why there's no J-20 in west border.
There is no way China would turn back to Russia for engine dependency on their pre-eminent fighter especially after just switching to WS-10 in the past 3 years. And considering that the latest WS-10 is already on par with the 117S, I don't see why the WS-15 cannot come close or possibly even exceed the Izd 30 engine. Note the Izd 30 has already been in flight testing since late 2017 and has barely moved a needle in terms of progress. Both countries, China and Russia, used clean sheet designs in their newest generation gas turbines (WS-15/Izd 30), so the footing should be much more equal.
"Haven't seen" and "hasn't happened" are distinct concepts. Even granting that the izd. 30's testing is ahead, the difference isn't sufficient to give Russia a clear lead. The difficulties you mentioned with China's engine program are significant, but the sums China has invested in the field (most notably since the establishment of AECC) are far greater than Russia's.
Given these factors, I don't think it's tenable that Russia has a clear lead. If it still has a lead, it's a very slight one and it will soon be overtaken. The story is different in high-bypass turbofans (especially civilian ones) - there I think China needs about five more years to catch up, but that's not the subject of this discussion.
That's just engines. When it comes to overall capability, the numbers of J-20s vs Su-57s speak for themselves.
No one is seriously thinking Russia is on par today.The difference is that China is closing the technological gap with the US while the Russians are steadily falling further behind.
By 2030, no-one would seriously think that Russia was even on a par with China in military technology, let alone be ahead in any area.
No one is seriously thinking Russia is on par today.
Russian and Chinese Combat Air Trends: Current Capabilities and Future Threat Outlook
This Whitehall Report examines Russian and Chinese combat air trends, and looks specifically at fast jets and their weapons systems and capabilities.rusi.org
The only area where Russia still maintains parity, or perhaps a slight edge, is engine development. China will inevitably close this gap in the next few years as it can invest significantly more resources than Russia can afford to.Well a “think tank” here seems to think so.
Russia is a has been and no match for China anymore.
Can we please stop arguing about this matter ... it's not even related to the J-20 anymore. Thanks. And honestly, I think you both should just place each other on the ignore list because all you guys do is get into heated arguments.You're twisting story desperately to win. Refer older replies, manufacturers do provide fuel consumption and richer authors willing to buy the details would get the specifications.
Military aircraft information that is classified mostly on avionics capabilities, effectiveness and how they actually fare against enemy. That is why video on latest F-15C with AESA radar documentary, they would censor the MFD when powered up.
You can go to manufacturer or their marketing agents only if you are potential buyers but they won't entertain low life like you that can't even afford to buy Jane's book.
What will they do with the hundreds of j7?
Guys ... it is enough!