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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

Asok, if you want to provide better evidence, you should at least not use a ridiculous TVC demo when Jiang Zemin was around (the PLA in the 90's had no way to build thrust-vectoring engines). Please make it more believable.
please Mr figaro ignore him @Asok posted these images since last year with no prove either its WS-15 or WS-10X its viewing angles to Consider by the @Asok that is a TVC engine, and think that @Figaro how can install high risk new engine to its intended platform without air testing on test bed to reduce the risk you should tested on a test bed first then on the intended platform
 
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and you have typical Chinese ignorance and arrogance to not understand others Mr @Asok :blah:
Seems like you are not familiar with Chinese people. Do you feel moral superiority to paint the Chinese as ignorant and arrogant? Although I disagree with Asok's assessment of J-20, I find your perception of Chinese people grossly misguided and revealing. Your comment only reveals your own ignorance and arrogance on Chinese people. I would never judge an individual based their group and vice versa.

Dispite my disagreement with Asok's stubborn insistence on certain characteristics of J-20, I feel this is a forum for sharing opinions and ideas. There isn't any new content out on the J-20 so I understand members' frustrations. Please refrain from taking out your frustrations upon whole groups of people, its arrogant, ignorant, disrespectful, and people on this page do take offense. Attacking ideas is welcomed but attacks upon individuals and groups are not welcomed.
 
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Totally agree with the notion of criticism on Asok's arguments. Don't "quote" words I didn't even say. I didn't mention it was ""racist"" or think Pakistani Power is a racist, but his statement was very disrespectful and and offensive to Chinese people.
Where did he say that? @pakistanipower, you should keep down with the bolded and highlighted letters ... please. If anything, Asok's argument was demeaning non-Chinese ("foreigners" like me) on how they would never be able to understand Chinese military matters because of the so-called "language barrier"
 
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Where did he say that? @pakistanipower, you should keep down with the bolded and highlighted letters ... please. If anything, Asok's argument was demeaning non-Chinese ("foreigners" like me) on how they would never be able to understand Chinese military matters because of the so-called "language barrier"
I disagree with Asok's perspective that "foreigners" will never be able to understand Chinese military matters because of the "language barrier". On the other hand understanding the language will give you a time and depth advantage on understanding key technologies of Chinese weapons systems and the dreaded rumours. It is true that Chinese military research is mainly or entirely published in Chinese because many Chinese researchers themselves suffer from the "language barrier". They publish in the language that is most usable to them, Chinese is the easiest language for them to communicate complex ideas in and also the best language for their primary readers(Chinese military industrial complex) to understand. Same can be said of rumours, people who have personal access to rumours tend to be Chinese from China, who are generally not English speakers (not their fault). Over time some information will trickle down into English reports translated by people who understands both languages, but this takes time and not all information will be translated due to lack of translators and their time. English speaking experts get their understanding of Chinese weapons systems from reading Chinese reports too. Understanding Chinese does gives an advantage but its not absolute. Insisting that a "foreigner" can never understand is demeaning and dismisses human potential to adapt, a broad generalisation I do not condone.

@Asok has too much false assertions rumors how can he prove that WS-15 has a TVC, 210kn thrust and based on R-79 jet engine and @Asok always contridic himself in past he was saying that j-20 using WS-15 from day one and on the few pages back he was saying that j-20 was using WS-15 from 2015
He can't prove anything definitively, I think some where back Asok said it was based off rumours from a Chinese language forum. New information trickling down should be welcomed, I would feel bad if any members feel unconfident in sharing new information they have discovered, its a treasure for all of us to enjoy, even if they are just rumours. Many members have already dismissed the rumour but no need to shoot the messenger. If anyone thinks another's opinion/assessment is not in line with your own then just stay strong and be confident with yours. I understand the process of disproving another person can be frustrating especially if they feel its the right idea, sometimes its best to let the time pass until more information is present and read another thread. Lets stay civil and not have a civil war.
 
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Ok guys ... and therefore let us all agree to disagree: All arguments are on the table, everything is said and repeated more than once.

Asok will not persuade me in the same way I do not persuade him and others ... Therefore as long as the discussion is civilised without name-callings and insults it's fine but IMO now it's enough said.

So go out and find some new images of J-20s ... and leave this back&forth!

Thank You.


Deino
 
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What valid points I'm asking that valid points from @Asok at least from 6 months can you give me those valid points
I don't understand these useless to and fro, valid or not is up to us to decide.
No point dwelling on arguments based on speculation, guesses, and interpolation.
Until verifiable info turns up, just state your points, let readers decide, and move on.
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I don't understand these useless to and fro, valid or not is up to us to decide.
No point dwelling on arguments based on speculation, guesses, and interpolation.
Until verifiable info turns up, just state your points, let readers decide, and move on.
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Thats my point sir let wait and see lets real confirmation will come out from the Chinese military:china:
 
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Thanks but my concern is still how much this new report is just based on that other report, which was soon deleted again.

Anyway thanks.

Deino
My personal opinion is it was not based on the previous documentary which had blurred images of machinery in the workshop producing the components. They deleted it because it was showing too much information on the production lines, anyway, this is the second confirmation of a domestic engine. I am not sure how else we can prove this point, CCTV is the official tv station of PRC. Even with new images, we can only deduce like always, now they are officially telling us it is CHINESE.
 
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I believe that what CCTV reported is official.

However, I can not make sure that it is 100% percent describing the J-20 equipped with WS-15.
The key point is, the Chinese language used in that report can have different meanings.
I have studied frame by frame for that report. But right now, I think we need to wait for more proof.
no
I don't think so. Only the central one is official, and the contents of other stations are not.
 
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By the way ... were any new LRIP-birds spotted at CAC recently ?

As far as I remember the most recent one was the one with "15" on the MLG-doors.

Deino
 
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Poorly using sarcasm given the context of this debate makes you seem ignorant. You are completely basing your argument on how only Chinese are able to analyze Chinese documents, which I have proved you wrong on many occasions. There is substantial use of translator software, third parties, and other ways of accurately translating one language to another. And you can patronize Bing or other translating software all you want, but it does sum up the gist of the document to give you a general sense of what is going on. There is no shame in doing so ... maybe from your point of view though.
BRO, my country is majority CHINESE and even we have a fucking hard time understanding the technical document from China. even something as simple as the type of atomic bonding which you learn in middle school, most translator even trained human translator will have difficulty translating it from chinese to english. scientific language is something few translator can manage and that is the fact. you have to be a trained engineer to understand what they are talking about, much less translate it.

hell even the chinese translator we hired from CHINA get the term wrong way too many times. they can't even translate my name correctly and i am ethnically chinese. chinese as a language is way more complex because chinese really isn't a language, it a family of language and that are several way of saying the same thing and the same word can have up to a dozen different meanings. :P
 
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