Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

"Asok, pardon, but will this finally lead You back to reality !?"


Very funny. LOL. He is referring to a mass produced domestic built engine, will soon power the mass produced version of J-20.

As we all know, the extensive testings of J-20 is mostly completed, and J-20 is already in LRIP, and soon it will be in full production, as the various production issues are ironed out.

If an engine is not already extensive tested on J-20, how could it be soon equipped on the mass production version of J-20?

And if WS-15 was never even tested on J-20 yet, which engine will power, the hundreds of J-20, rolling off the pulse production lines, in the coming years?

"AL-31FN, of course!", you said?

Hundreds of J-20A, powered by, the Russian AL-31FN engines? And when the WS-15 is finally ready 10-20 years from now, the Chinese could simply just loosen a few screws, and pop in the brand new WS-15 engines. Nothing else needs to be done. It is that simple.

You got to be kidding me. Who can really believe this B.S.? Some people's brain are incredibly lame.

Use your brain a little bit. Stop the denial. Pull your head out of the sand.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hundreds of J-20A, powered by, the Russian AL-31FN engines? And when the WS-15 is finally ready 10-20 years from now, the Chinese could simply just loosen a few screws, and pop in the brand new WS-15 engines. Nothing else needs to be done. It is that simple.

You got to be kidding me. Who can really believe this B.S.? Some people's brain are incredibly lame.

Use your brain a little bit. Stop the denial. Pull your head out of the sand.

But not using final and standard version of WS-15 as per @ChineseTiger1986, @Beast, it is using special version of WS-10 with a core of WS-15

 

[Deino]

But not using final and standard version of WS-15 as per @ChineseTiger1986, @Beast, it is using special version of WS-10 with a core of WS-15

Do You really think it is that easy to plug & play the core of one engine with the fan of another and not to forget the nozzle of an AL-31 ???

 

[Ultima Thule]

Do You really think it is that easy to plug & play the core of one engine with the fan of another and not to forget the nozzle of an AL-31 ???

Yes sir it is quite possible, examples in the past is already their

 

[Deino]

Yes sir it is quite possible, examples in the past is already their

Pardon, but when was the core of engine Type A was mated with the fan of Type B added by the nozzle of Type C. I'm indeed eager to learn but I don't know and from what I know it is simply impossible.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Pardon, but when was the core of engine Type A was mated with the fan of Type B added by the nozzle of Type C. I'm indeed eager to learn but I don't know and from what I know it is simply impossible.

i am saying that core and fan of the different engine mating is quite possible and i am not saying that the respected senior Chinese members like @Beast, @ChineseTiger1986, @cirr, @wanglaokan and others saying

 

[Deino]

i am saying that core and fan of the different engine mating is quite possible and i am not saying that the respected senior Chinese members like @Beast, @ChineseTiger1986, @cirr, @wanglaokan and others saying

I know what they are saying but as far as I know it is impossible and with all due respect; I think they are wrong.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I know what they are saying but as far as I know it is impossible and with all due respect; I think they are wrong.

No its quite possible, in the past few examples had been there with some US engine

 

[Deino]

No its quite possible, in the past few examples had been there with some US engine

Care to mention one ?? Like I said - I'm eager to learn and even to admit I'm wrong - but only since it is the simplest explanation that fits a certain opinion - namely a WS-15 of some sort is already operational - does not mean it is possible.

 

[Asoka]

"Do You really think it is that easy to plug & play the core of one engine with the fan of another and not to forget the nozzle of an AL-31 ???"

If the current WS-15, as seen on J-20, uses AL-31F and WS-10's already mature and proven technologies, it is not a simple plug and play, by pulling certain parts and directly mated with the new core.

It is taking the design of that part, and adapt it to the new Core. As we can see, the nozzles of the current engines on J-20, which I assume it is WS-15, are highly similar to AL-31F, but not totally identical. That is why the outsiders are keep arguing back and forth, because it is highly similar in external appearance, but not identical.

For example, the early J-20's nozzles are silver, but not on AF-31F. And several pictures, have shown J-20's nozzles can tilt, moderately, like a TVC, but not on AF-31F.

So, it is simply not the case as you have said. The technical power of China has passed the stage of simple identical copying of foreign technology.

"Pardon, but when was the core of engine Type A was mated with the fan of Type B added by the nozzle of Type C. I'm indeed eager to learn but I don't know and from what I know it is simply impossible."

J-20 and the J-11, J-15, J-16 series, have shown China can quickly take the best technologies, out there, and quickly adapt them to its need, and even shown innovation in the process.

For example, the DSI was invented by Lockeed Martin in the 1990's, and now China has come up with an Adjustable DSI, that could go beyond Mach2.

4S requirements, Stealth Shaping, AESA, Moving Canards, All Moving Vertical Tails, . . . all were invented in the West, but China has quickly adapted them and improved upon.

 

[Deino]

@Asok !

To admit I already gave up long, long ago in arguing with You: YES, the J-20 uses a type WS-15 Mark 12IVB hyper-warpdrive, it can travel Sol-3 even in reverse flight, since Chinese engineers were able - via their super mega hyper computer and the ability to 3D-print - to develop a new the core just for the LRIP planes, mate it with a Russian-looking nozzle (albeit sometimes in silver) - just to fool a certain German fan - and a WS-10 fan.

That all is plain and simple possible due to this super-PC and the final WS-15 will be even better ... !! Since it is that easy - due to this super-PC - to simply develop a new core, mate it to other parts and voila the MEGA-WS-15 Mark 28C is done.
I know, I know: I should wake up, come out of denial-modus and see !!!


O.k. and now for all others with a sense of reality:

A domestically developed engine will soon power the nation's latest stealth fighter jet, according to a senior scientist working for Aero Engine Corp of China.

"It will not take a long time for our fifth-generation combat plane to have China-made engines," said Chen Xiangbao, vice-president of the AECC Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials. Chen, also a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, was referring to the J-20 stealth fighter.

"The engine's development is proceeding well. We also have begun to design a next-generation aviation engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio that is much higher than that of current types," he said. Thrust-to-weight ratio is considered the top indicator of an aviation engine's capability.
....

http://china.org.cn/china/NPC_CPPCC_2017/2017-03/13/content_40448149.htm

IMO this finally, simply is a formal and official - but soft - admittance that a Chinese indigenous engine is NOT ready yet. Plain and simple without any interpretation.

....
The People's Liberation Army Air Force recently confirmed, without elaborating, that the J-20 has been put into active service. Aviation industry observers said the plane is still equipped with Russian-made engines due to the lack of a suitable domestically developed engine.

This report even admitted - via "Aviation industry observers" that it uses a Russian interim engine.

So IMO my theory is not that far off, especially if that Russian engine-theory would be wrong, this report would clearly mentioned it.

But like I said so often ... time will tell and then we know the whole true.
Deino

 

[Asoka]

"But not using final and standard version of WS-15 as per @ChineseTiger1986, @Beast, it is using special version of WS-10 with a core of WS-15"

The final production version of WS-15 has been installed on No. 2011 of J-20, when they made major changes to the tail section airframe.

The front sections of WS-15 is shorter than the WS-10, and AL-31F engine. So the new WS-15 is shorter, and the weapon got elongated as a result.

Despite being a lot more powerful, the WS-15 is also smaller, being a TWR of 11-12 class engine, instead of the 8-9 class engine of the WS-10, and AL-31F.

So we can see, the gulf or separation between the engine is deeper.

From this article:
https://news.usni.org/2014/03/19/china-unveils-capable-stealth-fighter-prototype

Notice the slightly longer weapon bay, and the deeper separation between the engines. This indicate the new engine is smaller and shorter than the previous engine.

 

[Deino]

@Asok ... can You please to not trash this thread full of BS !???

To conclude by the extension of the weapons bay is a prof for a WS-15 is so much off .... I think we should start a Kindergarten-section here in this forum, where certain members can play around with their theories, but that's not up to the standard of this forum.

To admit; I also have another forum since esp. You are always insisting in that hyper-secret force of deception: You are part of a special deception task-force. Whenever a report is posted that does not fit the bill, You take action and derail a certain discussion, post hyper-super theories about mature WS-15 with #210kN already from 2001, or then later 2011 ... anyway; it simply does not matter in Your universe of "alternative facts" as long as it turns away from the truth and real facts.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

"You are part of a special deception task-force."

That's funny. I take pride in myself, in not believing, and actively busting, official B.S., whether they came from Chinese government or Western governments, or not.

And now, I got accused by "official B.S." lover, who loves to believe "formal and official - but soft - admittance" as epitome of truth, for spreading and promoting B.S.

This is very ironic.

 

[Deino]

"You are part of a special deception task-force."

That's funny. I take pride in myself, in not believing, and actively busting, official B.S., whether they came from Chinese government or Western governments, or not.

And now, I got accused by "official B.S." lover, who loves to believe "formal and official - but soft - admittance" as epitome of truth, for spreading and promoting B.S.

This is very ironic.

Indeed; live is sometimes funny and ironic but at least this report leaves no option for Your hyper-magical mega-WS-15. It clearly says A domestically developed engine will soon power the nation's latest stealth fighter jet which is equal to: So far it uses not A domestically developed engine.

End of the debate. Or do You have again a special explanation ???