Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Pepsi Cola]

The F-35 is stealthier than the F-22.



The F-22 has enough range.

The distance from Guam to China mainland's coast is around 1,600 Nautical Miles.

 

[randomradio]

The distance from Guam to China mainland's coast is around 1,600 Nautical Miles.

That means you won't be able to hit Guam either. And you forget that the US has other bases closer to China than Guam.

 

[帅的一匹]

That means you won't be able to hit Guam either. And you forget that the US has other bases closer to China than Guam.

It just say J20 can reach Guam, doesn't mean China will use J20 to attack Guam. It's a tactical problem.

 

[UKBengali]

The F-35 is stealthier than the F-22.

Where did you pull that gem from?

 

[randomradio]

Where did you pull that gem from?

In his dream

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/06/...he-f-35-no-growlers-needed-when-war-starts/3/
But stealth is not invisibility, especially for fighters that must have tails for maneuverability (rather than the B-2 stealth bomber’s tailless “flying wing” design). Both F-22s and F-35s will be spotted at range by low frequency radar. The F-35’s cross section is much smaller than the F-22’s, but that does not mean, Hostage concedes, that the F-35 is necessarily superior to the F-22 when we go to war. In fact, Hostage says that it takes eight F-35s to do what two F-22s can handle.

“The F-35 is geared to go out and take down the surface targets,” says Hostage, leaning forward. “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.” But stealth — the ability to elude or greatly complicate an enemy’s ability to find and destroy an aircraft using a combination of design, tactics and technology — is not a magic pill, Hostage reminds us.

It's very important to research and read rather than smashing your heads on your keyboards the minute you're on a forum.

It just say J20 can reach Guam, doesn't mean China will use J20 to attack Guam. It's a tactical problem.

The F-22 can't attack from Guam and the Chinese cannot attack Guam with the J-20. That means both aircraft are tactically irrelevant in this scenario. So bringing up the F-22's range 'deficiency' was pointless.

 

[grey boy 2]

最近流出的满挂副油箱照片很赞啊。
四个副油箱的意思估计就是肚皮装满导弹，还有很多的载重富裕。可以实现从内地机场起飞，出海岸线（国境线）后丢副油箱，爬升进入隐身状态，长途外科手术，专打高价值目标。
当然，四个副油箱换成隐身外挂，饱和攻击，4外+4内=8弹，或者8外+4内=12弹，一次齐射灭掉一架预警机，还是很划得来。

福利如下，有外挂虽然影响隐身，但是比三代机霸气太多

 

[帅的一匹]

最近流出的满挂副油箱照片很赞啊。
四个副油箱的意思估计就是肚皮装满导弹，还有很多的载重富裕。可以实现从内地机场起飞，出海岸线（国境线）后丢副油箱，爬升进入隐身状态，长途外科手术，专打高价值目标。
当然，四个副油箱换成隐身外挂，饱和攻击，4外+4内=8弹，或者8外+4内=12弹，一次齐射灭掉一架预警机，还是很划得来。

福利如下，有外挂虽然影响隐身，但是比三代机霸气太多

长途奔袭可以保证不受敌方地对地战术导弹对边境机场的打击。

Can we stick to reality ???

You are only picking up individual parts: Size, fuel, missile .... but we know next to nothing how far the avionics are integrated, how much there's an interoperational information sharing possible between different assets and even more we know nearly nothing how much mature the J-20 and all its systems are.

Yes it is a fine fighter, Yes it has a huge fuel capacity ... but You guys are hyping this type as is it IS a Raptor-killer, as if the F-35 is a lame duck, as if You are only eager to go to war ...

I think none of You is old enough to ever realise how worse war is for everyone on each side.

Deino

Raptor comes first, then we develop J20. The purpose of developing J20 is for deterrence against F22. No one wants a war, I still enjoy my happy day in Shanghai. If a war is imposed upon on us, we have to face it. China had been very tolerated with USA's provocation. But everything has a limit, it has to be noticed.

 

[kuge]

歼20A短期部署百架 形势催人强
(博讯北京时间2016年12月26日 转载)
梁国梁


中国第五代隐形战机歼20已悄无声息成军，目前正密锣紧鼓进行战役和战术演练，不久将进入实战部署。这一事实即使最乐观的预言者也始料不及。

自从坐上「世界第二把交椅」後，中国的安全环境并非一味乐观反而更险恶，战争威胁不断积累，代表美国军工和石油利益集团的候任总统特朗普上台，只不过将「整死中国」的幕後对白搬上台前。中国早已洞察入微，形势催人强，加快歼20部署是中国既定战略方针。据透露中国将在短期内部署大约100架歼20战机，这一重磅消息如惊天炸雷。但是它靠谱吗？

歼20飞行员培训进入收官阶段

中国空军现役飞机一般是5个字编号，小部分用4个字编号。近日网络曝光了「78271」至「78274」顺序编号4架歼20战机，机身涂上五代隐形战机特有的「低可视度迷彩」，说明这是一批已服役战机。根据中国空军编号原则，得知这是中国空军沧州飞行训练中心的飞机编号。

沧州飞行训练中心是全军性的飞行训练中心，位於中部战区境内河北省沧州市，但不属於战区管辖而是直属空军司令部。

沧州飞行训练中心主要任务是训练新型战机飞行员，例如当年苏27、苏30战机飞行员便由该基地培训。沧州飞行训练中心还配备新型战机仿真训练设备，例如歼20仿真驾驶训练舱，这是飞向蓝天之前必经的训练阶段。飞行员在该基地进行驾驶技术和基本战术训练，随後便回到所属战区，再由该批核心飞行员「传、帮、带」培训所属战区新型战机飞行员。

目前该基地已培训多批歼20飞行员，进入「收官阶段」（围棋术语：收尾巩固），因为中国的惯例是：给你看到的已是过去了的东西。

战绩辉煌 预示即将实战部署

下面两则消息进一步证实歼20即将进行实战部署。

一、来自俄方消息称中国购自俄罗斯首批4架苏35将於本月25日圣诞日交付中方，接着进行苏35飞行员的紧张培训。目前沧州飞行训练中心的4个航空旅至少要腾出2个旅培训苏35飞行员，另2个旅继续培训新型歼20A飞行员。

二、美国商业卫星公司TerraServer今年11月17日拍摄的卫星图片，显示甘肃省酒泉市鼎新中国空军基地停泊两架歼20战机，停机坪上同时停泊歼10B/C、歼11B、歼轰7A、歼16、歼8F、轰6U、空警200、空警2000、运8高新机和运8运输机等，构成一个完整作战体系。

鼎新基地位於大名鼎鼎的中国航天城附近，是中国空军的战术合成训练基地，中国空军每年11月均在此地进行大规模「红剑」联合演习，与美国空军「红旗军演」类似，是目前世界上实战程度最高规模最大的空军联合演习之一。据了解，歼20出现在鼎新空军基地表明该型战机已进入战役战术训练阶段，离实战部署已不远。

歼20参加鼎新基地的中国空军「红剑」联合军演，一是探索五代隐身战机与预警机指挥下四代战机相互间的攻防演练；二是演练歼20在无线电静默情况下，仅靠数据资讯隐蔽接敌的空战模式；三是探索被喻为「国产版苏35」的新型四代机歼16，在空中预警机远端指挥下对抗歼20的能力；四是演练歼20「踹门」即撕开对方防御网能力；五是摸索歼20突袭预警机、空中加油机及电子战机战术。

据透露歼20战绩辉煌，坚定了中国大量部署的决心。

装备基本型、A型4个团部署沿海

歼20究竟要部署多少架？中国空军首席试飞员徐勇凌判断「中国未来主力歼20战机在2017年将正式列装，数量接近100架」。作为一线飞行员所独有的敏感，徐勇凌的判断与最近透露「中国将在短期内部署4个航空团的歼20战机」消息一致。4个团为96架，根据推算不到3年便可完成这一目标。部署重点依顺序将是南部战区、东部战区和北部战区。

众所周知，歼20战机是由成都飞机工业集团研制和生产。该公司位於成都青羊区，拥有研发机构、生产机构以及自己的机场跑道，研发、生产、试飞、验收一条龙进行。

目前，「成飞」两条歼20生产线，一条是生产歼20的基本型，装备俄制AL-31发动机，另一条是生产歼20A型，装备国产WS-10B太行发动机。最近加开第三条生产线加快生产速度，同样是生产歼20A型战机。3条生产线各以每月一架的速度，年产量合共36架。扣除已生产12架早期量产型机，余下84架的生产目标2年多便可完成。

「成飞」生产歼10A/B/C时，曾同时开动4条生产线。据分析「成飞」生产五代隐形战机的第四条生产线将於3年後即2019年末开始运作，试产歼20B以测试新型国产WS-15峨眉发动机。

4000亿催谷发动机 3年後生产歼20B

中国上世纪90年代起至今共购入俄罗斯礼炮公司AL-31飞机发动机1300台，用在国产歼11系列和歼10系列，以及部分歼20。

WS-10太行发动机和AL-31发动机有共通之处，随後俄方在AL-31F基础上开发出99M1至99M4暴风猎人发动机，中国也在WS-10上开发出WS-10A和WS-10B，但中国比俄罗斯做得更好，将推重比由8提升到9。

中航集团董事长林左鸣介绍WS-10B时说：「国产第三代单晶叶片极端环境下耐高温达到2000度，目前是全球耐高温最好的叶片，这个指标连美国都做不到。」太行发动机的寿命由此从800小时增加到1500小时，大修间隔达到西方水平。

今年8月28日直属国务院的中国航空发动机集团成立，注册资本500亿人民币，职工9.6万人，拥有中国科学院和工程院院士6名，是中国初始注册资本最大的公司，中国计划投入600亿美元（4000多亿人民币）给该公司发展航空发动机，这一数字相当於中国全部黄金储备的价值。

WS-15峨眉发动机在2006年已经研发并试车成功，但至今仍未量产。中国政府投入巨资目的非常明确，就是2020年前一定攻克WS-15峨眉发动机这个大关，并开始大规模生产。

WS-15峨眉发动机是专为五代隐形战机设计，动力巨大，推重比达到和超过10。歼20B装备WS-15後巡航速度可达1.8马赫，最高速度超过2.2马赫，与美军F-22隐身五代机已不相上下。作为中国空军主力的歼20B未来产量将高达500架，超过美国及其盟友在亚洲部署隐形五代机的总和。

李济深「机不可失」的玄机

上世纪二三十年代，蒋介石进驻南京统治中国，李济深不服，策动广东广西与蒋对抗，双方军队互有输赢，但广东有一支空军，令蒋处於劣势。蒋要建立空军，时间金钱都有问题，结果蒋用最低成本的手法——巨款贿赂李的空军司令，整支空军便飞往南京，李济深马上下野流亡。李济深此时才明白，战前算命先生给他的4个字「机不可失」非指战胜蒋的机会而是指飞机不可失！

现代战争从空中开始也从空中结束，空军是成败的关键，中国全力发展歼20的战略意义不言自明。

作者是香港军事评论员

来源：香港 明报

Some key points (not all of above)

early basic j20 are powered by al31f.
j20a powered by ws10b whose 3rd gen blades can withstand 2000degC & thus lifespan increases from 800hrs to 1500hrs.

Chengdu currently has 2 production lines - one for basic j20 & another for j20a.
Recently added one more line also for j20a making annual production 36 units.

It says WS-15 passed the test in 2006 & plan mass production in 2020 .
It will power j20b in quantity of 500.

 

[alwaysfair]

That means you won't be able to hit Guam either. And you forget that the US has other bases closer to China than Guam.

Any chance of mid air refueling ? I know the refueling tanker might be detected so chances are less.

 

[grey boy 2]

Is it only me? why my images ain't showing?

 

[Deino]

Becareful grey, posting Chinese will cause @Deino to burst into tears and complaining that Chinese should not be posting in PDF anymore

You simple should not complain with my kind remindings but talk to the owner of this forum if You don't like this rule !

 

[grey boy 2]

A few nice pictures of J-20

 

[randomradio]

Any chance of mid air refueling ? I know the refueling tanker might be detected so chances are less.

New stealth tankers.

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/cno-new-stingray-drone-will-be-a-tanker

 

[Deino]

It is not me who is complaining now am i? Was it not you who said those who are not posting in English should not post in PDF at all?

Yes, but plain and simple as I would remind anyone since these are the rules ... not MY rules, but simpyl the forum's rules !

I would even more be interested if these are the same tanks the J-10 uses ... or are they larger ?

 

[Silicon0000]

I am not expert but curious to know that is there any ram coatings on j20 displayed in recent Chinese air show?