Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[xuwei]

who can help me translate these acticle to Pakistan friends,and it is helpful to know about J10:

sopc_dsp:
就这目前国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的原型
J10B的试产小批量快了，J10B用的就是在此原型基础上提高成品率、降低成本的批产在即的TR组件，只要订单足够，试产期间可保证大于（10部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
等J10B完全批产了，估计国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的产量可保证超过（50部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
J11B、J15也会用上更大的国产AESA雷达。

目前J10B担当AESA领先试用的重任，
量产的AESA也将首先满足J10B，
将来在J10B不断扩充的机群中AESA雷达的TR组件可获得不断的改进和提升，
在此基础上研制5代重歼的AESA雷达的成本和风险会大大降低，
从歼10B的AESA雷达，仿制放大的装备J11B、J15的AESA雷达，必定会投产的。


sopc_dsp:发表于 2010-5-8 18:38
J10A执行空优任务，挂载能力不弱，6枚导弹（2近4中）最大速度不小于1.8M,4枚导弹（2近2中）最大速度不小于2M，具有优秀的高空超音速机动能力（超音速大过载盘旋能力不低于6g，具有近9g的跨音速大过载掉头能力，200度/秒快速横滚率），优秀的中低空亚音速机敏性（中低空亚音速大于31度的急盘旋，极高的横滚加速度和约300度/秒快速横滚（更大的横滚率被电传限制了））。
J10A执行护航任务，4枚导弹（2近2中），3副油箱，可满足JH7A全程护航要求，
J10A只在执行对地对海打击任务时，打击能力不及Su30kk、JH7A的一半。

就制空而言，空军对其性能非常满意。对地打击不是其重点、大家也看过，J10A打火箭弹也是很准的。

J10B对地能力虽得到加强，但其空战能力则成倍提高，J10B的主要作战功能还是空优，
J10B的总体气动外形对跨音速面积率和超音速面积率进行了深度优化，重新设计了前机身、垂直尾翼、腹鳍，更换了新的主翼（翼型基本不变，采用了更多的复合材料），新一代的3维超音速BUMP进气道在2倍音速时可提供的总压恢复好于3波系进气道，优化后的气动外形在亚、跨、超音速的包线内的减阻效果明显，加速性能得到改善。从试飞情况来看，高空带弹情况下（模拟弹）的极速和最大静升限均有所提高。
J10B的结构重量减重明显，挂载能力有所增强。

J10B采用了新一代的航电系统，包括改进的飞控系统，最新的配套机载相控阵雷达、（主动/被动）电战系统，新增光电雷达。
J10B的系统更新比例不低于70%

sopc_dsp 2010-5-8 19:43 :
待TH的性能稳定了，j10b将成为我空军的主力战机（海航不清楚）

sopc_dsp 发表于 2010-5-10 16:35
前段时间，解放军报某文，不是2架J10对战4架J11（升级过的）， 升空后 J10僚机因故障被迫退出，J10长机只得硬着头皮去1架J10对4架J11，对抗结果4架J11被判定击落，单架J10意外捞个4:0战绩，连J10长机都没想到。

此文，前段时间在网上已被热炒过了。

实际上06年以后，2对4，4对4，8对8，J10对战的基本上是J11，而且是大强度检验性对抗，也有单架J10被判定击落，J11被判定全灭也不少。



我记得我一直是8吨派的，我曾经说过只有J10AS(双&#24231在算上2个人的情况下空重接近8.9吨。
J10B在扩大复合材料使用范围后虽然在结构重量上减重明显，但由于AESE雷达，光电雷达，电战设备的增重抵消了部份结构减重，J10B空重虽比J10A有所减轻，但J10B还是8吨级的空重。




J10 系列

空优型：J10A

空优、对地攻击型 兼 同型教：J10S

(空中优&#21183 空优型 兼 多用途：J10B

L15成熟、量产后， J10S的产量会缩减，进一步情况未知。

重5服役前，J10B将成为国土防空主力，空装对J10B的研制盯得很紧，空装是J10B的订货大户，不过海航很想插一脚，偷摘将来的果子。

J10B量产后J10A就将逐步减产直到停产。

目前(J10A+J10S)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例是2 ：1

不排除将来出现(J10B)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例 3 ：1 的可能

 

[Pk_Thunder]

who can help me translate these acticle to Pakistan friends,and it is helpful to know about J10:

sopc_dsp:
就这目前国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的原型
J10B的试产小批量快了，J10B用的就是在此原型基础上提高成品率、降低成本的批产在即的TR组件，只要订单足够，试产期间可保证大于（10部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
等J10B完全批产了，估计国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的产量可保证超过（50部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
J11B、J15也会用上更大的国产AESA雷达。

目前J10B担当AESA领先试用的重任，
量产的AESA也将首先满足J10B，
将来在J10B不断扩充的机群中AESA雷达的TR组件可获得不断的改进和提升，
在此基础上研制5代重歼的AESA雷达的成本和风险会大大降低，
从歼10B的AESA雷达，仿制放大的装备J11B、J15的AESA雷达，必定会投产的。


sopc_dsp:发表于 2010-5-8 18:38
J10A执行空优任务，挂载能力不弱，6枚导弹（2近4中）最大速度不小于1.8M,4枚导弹（2近2中）最大速度不小于2M，具有优秀的高空超音速机动能力（超音速大过载盘旋能力不低于6g，具有近9g的跨音速大过载掉头能力，200度/秒快速横滚率），优秀的中低空亚音速机敏性（中低空亚音速大于31度的急盘旋，极高的横滚加速度和约300度/秒快速横滚（更大的横滚率被电传限制了））。
J10A执行护航任务，4枚导弹（2近2中），3副油箱，可满足JH7A全程护航要求，
J10A只在执行对地对海打击任务时，打击能力不及Su30kk、JH7A的一半。

就制空而言，空军对其性能非常满意。对地打击不是其重点、大家也看过，J10A打火箭弹也是很准的。

J10B对地能力虽得到加强，但其空战能力则成倍提高，J10B的主要作战功能还是空优，
J10B的总体气动外形对跨音速面积率和超音速面积率进行了深度优化，重新设计了前机身、垂直尾翼、腹鳍，更换了新的主翼（翼型基本不变，采用了更多的复合材料），新一代的3维超音速BUMP进气道在2倍音速时可提供的总压恢复好于3波系进气道，优化后的气动外形在亚、跨、超音速的包线内的减阻效果明显，加速性能得到改善。从试飞情况来看，高空带弹情况下（模拟弹）的极速和最大静升限均有所提高。
J10B的结构重量减重明显，挂载能力有所增强。

J10B采用了新一代的航电系统，包括改进的飞控系统，最新的配套机载相控阵雷达、（主动/被动）电战系统，新增光电雷达。
J10B的系统更新比例不低于70%

sopc_dsp 2010-5-8 19:43 :
待TH的性能稳定了，j10b将成为我空军的主力战机（海航不清楚）

sopc_dsp 发表于 2010-5-10 16:35
前段时间，解放军报某文，不是2架J10对战4架J11（升级过的）， 升空后 J10僚机因故障被迫退出，J10长机只得硬着头皮去1架J10对4架J11，对抗结果4架J11被判定击落，单架J10意外捞个4:0战绩，连J10长机都没想到。

此文，前段时间在网上已被热炒过了。

实际上06年以后，2对4，4对4，8对8，J10对战的基本上是J11，而且是大强度检验性对抗，也有单架J10被判定击落，J11被判定全灭也不少。



我记得我一直是8吨派的，我曾经说过只有J10AS(双&#24231在算上2个人的情况下空重接近8.9吨。
J10B在扩大复合材料使用范围后虽然在结构重量上减重明显，但由于AESE雷达，光电雷达，电战设备的增重抵消了部份结构减重，J10B空重虽比J10A有所减轻，但J10B还是8吨级的空重。




J10 系列

空优型：J10A

空优、对地攻击型 兼 同型教：J10S

(空中优&#21183 空优型 兼 多用途：J10B

L15成熟、量产后， J10S的产量会缩减，进一步情况未知。

重5服役前，J10B将成为国土防空主力，空装对J10B的研制盯得很紧，空装是J10B的订货大户，不过海航很想插一脚，偷摘将来的果子。

J10B量产后J10A就将逐步减产直到停产。

目前(J10A+J10S)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例是2 ：1

不排除将来出现(J10B)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例 3 ：1 的可能

Translation as under

In this current fighter AESA radar made the prototype TR component
J10B small batch trial production faster, J10B used in this prototype is based on the increased yield and lower production costs will soon grant the TR component, as long as enough orders, the trial production period can be guaranteed more than (10 AESA radar / years) production.
Other J10B full batch production, with an estimated domestic fighter AESA radar can guarantee the output of TR over component (50 AESA radar / year) of production.
J11B, J15 will spend more domestic AESA radar.

AESA is currently playing a leading trial J10B responsibility,
Production of the AESA will first meet the J10B,
Ever-expanding future J10B AESA radar in the TR cluster components and enhance the availability of continuous improvement,
On this basis, re-development of the F 5 generation of the AESA radar will significantly reduce costs and risks,
The AESA radar from the F-10B, generic amplification equipment J11B, J15 of the AESA radar, will be put into operation.


sopc_dsp: Posted at 2010-5-8 18:38
J10A perform air superiority missions, mount capability is not weak, 6 missiles (two near 4) The maximum speed of not less than 1.8M, 4 missiles (2 near 2) The maximum speed of not less than 2M, with excellent ultra-high-altitude mobility speed of sound (supersonic circled high overload capacity of not less than 6g, 9g a near overload of transonic big U-turn capacity, 200 degrees / sec fast roll rate), excellent low-altitude subsonic alertness (low-altitude subsonic large hovering at 31 degrees of urgency, a high roll acceleration and about 300 degrees / sec fast roll (roll rate was more limited fax)).
J10A perform escort missions, 4 missiles (2 near 2), 3 fuel tanks, full escort to meet JH7A requirements
J10A only in the implementation of ground-to-sea combat missions against the ability of less than Su30kk, JH7A half.

To the air, the Air Force, its performance is very satisfactory. Not the focus on combat, we have seen, J10A rocket hit is quite accurate.

J10B-to-ground capability, although to be strengthened, but the air combat capability is improved several times, J10B main function is to combat air superiority,
J10B overall aerodynamic shape of the transonic and supersonic area ratio of the depth of area rate optimization, re-design of the forward fuselage, vertical tail, pelvic, replacement of a new wing (airfoil is essentially the same, using a more complex material), a new generation of 3-dimensional supersonic inlet at 2 times the speed of sound BUMP available when the total pressure better than 3 wave system inlet, optimized aerodynamic shape in subsonic, transonic and supersonic envelope drag reduction effect was to speed up performance is improved. Judging from the test flight, with the missile at high altitude conditions (simulated projectile) the speed and the maximum static ceiling were all improved.
J10B weight structural weight significantly, mount capability has been enhanced.

J10B using a new generation of avionics systems, including an improved flight control system, the latest supporting airborne phased array radar, (active / passive) electronic warfare systems, new optical radar.
J10B system update no less than 70%

sopc_dsp 2010-5-8 19:43:
TH's performance to be stable, j10b will become the Air Force's main fighter (HNA is not clear)

sopc_dsp Posted at 2010-5-10 16:35
Some time ago, Liberation Army Daily, a paper, not 2 Battle 4 J10 J11 (upgraded), the launch failure, after forced to withdraw due wingman J10, J10 lead plane had to bite the bullet and go to one of four J10 J11, confrontation Results 4 J11 was determined to shoot down a single aircraft accident in fishing for a 4-0 record J10, J10 lead aircraft did not even think of.

This article, some time ago on the Internet has been touted before.

In fact after 06, 2 on 4,4 on 4,8 on the 8, J10 Battle is basically J11, but also a test of high-intensity combat, but also shot down a single aircraft was convicted J10, J11 is also a lot of determination Quanmie .



I remember when I was 8 tons have been sent, and I said only J10AS (seat) in the case of count 2, empty weight of individuals close to 8.9 tons.
J10B in expanding the use of composite materials in structural weight after weight loss despite obvious, but AESE radar, optical radar, electronic warfare equipment, offset part of the structure of the weight gain weight, J10B J10A empty weight, is less than some relief, but J10B or empty weight of 8 tons.




J10 Series

Air superiority type: J10A

Air superiority, ground attack and the same type of education: J10S

(Air superiority) air superiority over the type and purpose: J10B

L15 mature, mass production, J10S production will shrink, further information is unknown.

5 before re-serving, J10B air defense will become the main land, air and equipment for the development keep a close eye J10B, J10B ordering air equipment is large, but the HNA would like into the act, picking fruit in the future.

J10A J10B mass production will be gradually cut until the cut-off.

Currently (J10A + J10S): (J11 series) production ratio is 2: 1

Not preclude the emergence (J10B): (J11 series) production ratio of 3: 1

 

[xuwei]

Pk_Thunder,your Chinese is so good,how could you translate it so quickly?

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Pk_Thunder,your Chinese is so good,how could you translate it so quickly?

Google translate brother. Try yourself.

 

[mjnaushad]

google translater sucks really......

seigecrossbow need help here......


Anyway what i understood is J10 is under trail with AESA.....and if we can use KLJ 7 (smaller version of KLJ-10) AESA might also be an option .....Sorry for bringing JF 17....

 

[SBD-3]

I think siegecrossbow can be of help....in translating this

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think siegecrossbow can be of help....in translating this

Right on sir:

sopc_dsp:
就这目前国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的原型
J10B的试产小批量快了，J10B用的就是在此原型基础上提高成品率、降低成本的批产在即的TR组件，只 要订单足够，试产期间可保证大于（10部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
等J10B完全批产了，估计国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的产量可保证超过（50部AESA 雷达/年）的产量。
J11B、J15也会用上更大的国产AESA雷达

sopc_dsp: This is the current model for the TR component on indigenous AESA radar for Chinese fighters. We'll see small scale productions (of this radar) for the J-10B soon. The one used by the J-10B is based on this model but will reduce defects and lower th ecost for mass producing the TR components. As long as there are enough orders, at least 10 AESA radars could be produced during the trial production period.
When J-10B enters mass production, I believe that the production rate for the TR component will exceed 50 per year. J-11B and J-15 will use larger indigenous AESA radars.

目前J10B担当AESA领先试用的重任，
量产的AESA也将首先满足J10B，
将来在J10B不断扩充的机群中AESA雷达的TR组件可获得不断的改进和提升，
在此基础上研制5代重歼的AESA雷达的成本和风险会大大降低，
从歼10B的AESA雷达，仿制放大的装备J11B、J15的AESA雷达，必定会投产的。

Right now the J-10B has the important task of being used as a AESA testing platform. As a result J-10B will be equipped by the first batch of AESAs. As more and more J-10Bs are produced in the future the TR component of AESA radars will also be modified and improved. By using this radar as a foundation for AESAs on 5th generation heavy fighters we can significantly reduce developmental costs and risks. The enlarged versions of J-10B's AESA radars will be used to equip J-11B and J-15s and those will be massed produced as well.

sopc_dsp:发表于 2010-5-8 18:38
J10A执行空优任务，挂载能力不弱，6枚导弹（2近4中）最大速度不小于1.8M,4枚导弹（2近2中） 最大速度不小于2M，具有优秀的高空超音速机动能力（超音速大过载盘旋能力不低于6g，具有近9g的跨音速 大过载掉头能力，200度/秒快速横滚率），优秀的中低空亚音速机敏性（中低空亚音速大于31度的急盘旋，极高的横滚加速度和约300 度/秒快速横滚（更大的横滚率被电传限制了））。
J10A执行护航任务，4枚导弹（2近2中），3副油箱，可满足JH7A全程护航要求，
J10A只在执行对地对海打击任务时，打击能力不及Su30kk、JH7A的一半。

sopc_dsp:

J-10A's air to air capability and hardpoint capacity aren't exactly week. It could carry six missiles (two close-in heatseekers and 4 MRAAMS) and maintain a speed of Mach 1.8 and carry four missiles (two close in and 2 MRAAMS) and maintain a speed of Mach 2. It has superb manueverability at supersonic speeds (the airframe could tolerate 6 g at supersonic speeds at 9 g and subsonic speeds and has superb turning abilities, with a roll rate of 200 degrees/sec). It also has superb manueverability at medium to low speeds (with a turnrate of 30 degrees at subsonic speeds and a high roll rate of 300 degrees per second (higher turnrates are limited by the electronics)).

When the J-10A is on an escort mission it could carry 4 missiles (2 close-in and 2 MRAAMs) and three fuel tanks, enough to cover the range of the JH-7A. When the J-10A is used for ground and naval strike missions its capabilities are less than 1/2 of those of the Su-30Mkk and JH-7A.

就制空而言，空军对其性能非常满意。对地打击不是其重点、大家也看过，J10A打火箭弹也是很 准的。

J10B对地能力虽得到加强，但其空战能力则成倍提高，J10B的主要作战功能还是空优，
J10B的总体气动外形对跨音速面积率和超音速面积率进行了深度优化，重新设计了前机身、垂直尾翼、腹鳍， 更换了新的主翼（翼型基本不变，采用了更多的复合材料），新一代的3维超音速BUMP进气道在2倍音速时可 提供的总压恢复好于3波系进气道，优化后的气动外形在亚、跨、超音速的包线内的减阻效果明显，加速性能得到 改善。从试飞情况来看，高空带弹情况下（模拟弹）的极速和最大静升限均有所提高。
J10B的结构重量减重明显，挂载能力有所增强。

The air force is very satisfied with the J-10's air to air capabilities and air to ground capabilities aren't exactly the focus. However, as we can all see, the J-10 is still very good at straffing targets with unguided rockets.

The J-10B (compared to J-10A) has modestly improved its air to ground capabilities but its air to air capabilities has improved many folds. J-10B is still primarily an air superiority fighter. Its airframe has been redesigned with an emphasis on improved transonic and supersonic area rules. The front, vertical tail, pectoral fins, and wings (the wing shape didn't change but more composite materials were used) were all redesigned. A new generation 3D supersonic BUMP intake could perform better than the traditional air intake at Mach 2+ speeds. The improved airframe has significantly reduced air resistance at sub, trans, and supersonic speeds and the acceleration has improved as a result of this. Judging from the testflights so far, the max high altitude air speed (with missiles, dummies) and the maximum operational ceiling have both increased.

The J-10B has significantly reduced weight and the max load of the plane has increased.

J10B采用了新一代的航电系统，包括改进的飞控系统，最新的配套机载相控阵雷达、（主动/被动）电战系统，新增光电雷达。
J10B的系统更新比例不低于70%

sopc_dsp 2010-5-8 19:43 :
待TH的性能稳定了，j10b将成为我空军的主力战机（海航不清楚）

sopc_dsp 发表于 2010-5-10 16:35
前段时间，解放军报某文，不是2架J10对战4架J11（升级过的）， 升空后 J10僚机因故障被迫退出，J10长机只得硬着头皮去1架J10对4架J11，对抗结果4架J11被判定击 落，单架J10意外捞个4:0战绩，连J10长机都没想到。

The J-10B has employed a new generation of avionics. This includes improved flight control, new plane carried radar, active/passive electronic warfare pods, and a newly added photoelectric radar. At least 70% of J-10's systems have been upgraded.

When the TH capabilities become stable, J-10B will become the backbone of China's airforce (I don't know about PLANAF).

A while ago I read, on a PLAAF report, that it wasn't two J-10s going up against four J-11s (upgraded ones). When the planes got into the air one of the J-10s had to make an emergency landing so the other J-10 had to go up against 4 J-11s by itself. In the end all four J-11s were "shot down" by the J-10 and the J-10 earned a 4-0 victory by accident. Not even the J-10 pilot thought he could've pulled that off.

此文，前段时间在网上已被热炒过了。

实际上06年以后，2对4，4对4，8对8，J10对战的基本上是J11，而且是大强度检验性对抗，也有单 架J10被判定击落，J11被判定全灭也不少。



我记得我一直是8吨派的，我曾经说过只有J10AS(双&#24231在算上2个人的情况下空重接近8. 9吨。
J10B在扩大复合材料使用范围后虽然在结构重量上减重明显，但由于AESE雷达，光电雷达，电战设备的增 重抵消了部份结构减重，J10B空重虽比J10A有所减轻，但J10B还是8吨级的空重。

The article above has gained notoriety a short while before.

Since 2006 the 2-4, 4-4, and 8-8 mock airbattles involving the J-10 were all against the J-11s. Some J-10s have been "shot down" but entire groups of J-11s have been "decimated as well.

I remember that I've always been a part of the "8-ton" party (the author believes that the J-10 weighs eight metric tons). From what I've heard only J-10AS (two pilot variant) has an operational weight of 8.9 tons. Although the J-10B decreased the structural weight significantly by using more composite materials the AESA radar, photoelectric radar, and electronic attack pods have offset the weight reduction to some degree. Although the structural weight of the J-10B is less than that of the J-10A, the actual weight of the plane is still 8 tons.

J10 系列

空优型：J10A

空优、对地攻击型 兼 同型教：J10S

(空中优&#21183 空优型 兼 多用途：J10B

L15成熟、量产后， J10S的产量会缩减，进一步情况未知。

重5服役前，J10B将成为国土防空主力，空装对J10B的研制盯得很紧，空装是J10B的订货大户，不过 海航很想插一脚，偷摘将来的果子。

J10B量产后J10A就将逐步减产直到停产。

目前(J10A+J10S)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例是2 ：1

不排除将来出现(J10B)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例 3 ：1 的可能

J-10 series:

Air superiority variant: J-10A

Air superiority, ground attack, and trainer: J-10S

Air superiority and multi-role: J-10B

When the L-15 becomes mature and is mass produced the production of J-10S will probably decrease.

Before the heavy 5th generation fighter enters service, the J-10B will be the backbone of China's air defence. The Air Force is watching the J-10B development anxiously since it is J-10B's primary customer but we shouldn't rule out the possibility that the PLANAF will try to interfere and "steal the fruits" of the Air Force.

When the J-10B enters mass production the production of J-10A will end.

Currently J-10 production (J-10A/S) vs J-11 production is about 2:1.

When the J-10B emerges the ratio will probably be 3:1 (against J-11s).

 

[SBD-3]

A while ago I read, on a PLAAF report, that it wasn't two J-10s going up against four J-11s (upgraded ones). When the planes got into the air one of the J-10s had to make an emergency landing so the other J-10 had to go up against 4 J-11s by itself. In the end all four J-11s were "shot down" by the J-10 and the J-10 earned a 4-0 victory by accident. Not even the J-10 pilot thought he could've pulled that off.



The article above has gained notoriety a short while before.

Since 2006 the 2-4, 4-4, and 8-8 mock airbattles involving the J-10 were all against the J-11s. Some J-10s have been "shot down" but entire groups of J-11s have been "decimated as well.

So will there also be an improvement in J-11B's Air superiority skill set or they will be assigned the role of Strike force rather than Air superiority? (which IMHO will negate the development of J-11BS variant)

 

[siegecrossbow]

So will there also be an improvement in J-11Bs or they will be assigned the role of Strike force rather than Airsuperiority?

I don't think that the J-11B will every be used primarily as a strike fighter. That job is for the Su-30MKK. What the article is saying is that the J-10B will be the backbone of China's Air superority fighters, not the J-11B.

 

[SBD-3]

I don't think that the J-11B will every be used primarily as a strike fighter. That job is for the Su-30MKK. What the article is saying is that the J-10B will be the backbone of China's Air superority fighters, not the J-11B.

But i read somewhere that China would be updating its flanker fleet (J-11s) to SU-35BM level....any news on this??

 

[Manticore]

CANARDS -- i found some nice info and wanted to share it with you guys

If you look at the basics you will find that canards have advantages and disadvantages.
In modern fighter aircraft canards are used as vortex generators, it means as a way to increase wing lift at high AoA, in most cases are used on Delta wing aircraft, like the Rafale and J-10.
Canards are used also as pitch control, in this case they are very useful as a pitch up force in turns, this gives an aircraft excellent instantaneous turn rates, they can also be used as STOL devices reducing Take off or landing approaching speeds.
In the case of the Su-34 and B-1B, they are used as turbulance dampers at low altitude and high speed.
Now these are canard`s main advantages, the main disadvantage is they reduce wing lift at level flight, thus having more drag.

Shape and position are also constraigns and limits they have, the best position for a canard is above wing level, thus its low preassure vortex increases wing lift at high AoA.

The Shape is also very important, for an aircraft in order to reduce drag at level flight while using a canard , it needs a small high aspect canard with weak wingtip vortex downwash but this means it will generate less wing lift at high AoA due to the same weaker wingtip vortex.

If the canard needs to create more lift at high Ao A a big low aspect canard is used but this generate more drag at level flight.
canard wing distance is also important a closer position to the wing means more drag and less lift at level flight but better wing lift at high AoAs.

On aircraft with tailplanes you can use LERXes sometimes called wing strakes and LEVCONs to increase wing lift at high AoA, these wing strakes generate low preassue vortices like canards do therefore increasing wing lift at high AoA.
The LERX by its self can not be uses as a pitch control device, but if used on an aircraft with tailplanes that disadvantage does not exist.

The LERX does not generate downwash, and the same is for the LEVCON, reducing thus drag and wing size.

Canards also limit the max lift potential of the wing, this makes canards highly mission dependant, as you can see stealth aircraft have shape and position limitations that will impact an aircraft with canards in a greater way than one with tailplanes.
Now the use of thrust vectoring aids by reducing the pitch control tailplanes do thus reducing trimming drag and allowing the tailplanes to be used as roll devices.

In the T-50 you will find it has LEVCONs and LERXes, so these devices are increasing wing lift at high AoA as a canard would do but without the canard generated downwash.
In both the F-22 and

To understand canards we first have to understand they are wings, as a wing they have trailing edges, at the end of any trailing edge the upper wing`s low preassure and the lower wing`s high preassure meet, this creates the downwash, at the tip of any wing you also have a place where the wing`s difference of preassure meet, this usually create downwash too, on straight wing or a very high aspect wing this is a realtively weak vortex and therefore generates weaker downwash; the F-14 will sweep its wing at 16 degrees to make it straight basicly reducing its swept thus reducing the relative AoA of the wing and induced lift drag.
So the F-14 wing at 16 degree of swept does not need a higher AoA to achieve higher lift as a delta wing will, a higher AoA also induce low preassure wing separation and stall the wing at very high AoA.

A highly swept wing generates a strong low preassure vortex that moves diagonally with respect the aircraft flight path until its shed behind the wing.

Delta wings are this type of wing, so a highly swept LERX or canard generate stronger low preassure vortices than a a lower swept LERX or Canard.

Now, the canard low preassure vortex appears the strongest at high angles of attacks. it means that the canard vortex will only increase the wing lift above 5 degrees of AoA up to 40 degrees of AoA, however the canard downwash affects mostly at level flight or 0 degrees of AoA, this kills wing lift at level flight.

The LERXs has no trailing edge, thus it has no downwash.

Now a canard as a pitch control is positioned with the certer of gravity in a way it can balance the aircraft as it pitches up or down, this is achieved by increasing or reducing lift.
A LERX can not do that because it is part of the wing and it shares a common center of preassure with the main wing, therefore you need tailplanes or elevons.

The Canard and wing do not share a common center of lift , so they can be used as the tips of a seesaw or two boys each one seated at each extreme of the seesaw, with the center of gravity balanced by these two lifting surfaces basicly working like a fulcrum of a lever.
Now at turns, the wing is at higher AoAs so the canard aids the wing by increasing its lift as it is while landing or taking off.
The reason why canards are prefered over tailplanes is since they generate lift ahead of the center of gravity they generate a pitch up force so while turning the response is quicker than a tailplane this will increase Instantaneous turn rates.
the problem of this is most modern fighters with canards have delta wings, a delta as i told you before gets stalled faster than a straight wing because of the downwash it generates, if you are flying a F-14 you will set the wing at mid settings around 45 degrees or 16 at very low speeds so you wing has the lowest drag lift.

Most canard delta wing aircraft bleed energy fast in turns so the have a big difference in instantaneous turn rates and sustained turn rates.

Now if you possition the canard at lower levels than the wing the lower preassure vortices it generates goes under the wing thus reducing even further the wing lift, that is the reason canards are set above the wing level.

The canard generates a pitch up force so as control surface to pitch up the aircraft it is easier but not pitching down, so their size is reduced as a pitch up force but not as pitch down control, An aircraft with canards can use the wing elevons too as pitch devices like are used on a tailess delta wing. most aircraft have small canards to reduce drag. Because canards need to be very close to the wing like in the Rafale, so in order to reduce downwash a small size is recomended.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

CANARDS -- i found some nice info and wanted to share it with you guys

And you forgot to mention the source.Anyways nice job doc.

 

[Manticore]

And you forgot to mention the source.Anyways nice job doc.

i wasnt sure if i could post someother forum's link here bro-- i think youre the same 'surb' there? -- anyone can paste the first sentence of my qoute and google it , to find the source anyway

[hahaha , i didnt say that i wrote it - rather i found it on the net!]

 

[siegecrossbow]

But i read somewhere that China would be updating its flanker fleet (J-11s) to SU-35BM level....any news on this??

I don't know just how far China will upgrade the J-11s. Perhaps "Silent Flankers" will be the ultimate incarnation of Chinese J-11s, perhaps not. What I know for sure is that the J-11B is probably not going to be China's last domestic flanker variation.

Many Pakistani brothers support Pakistan's purchase of J-11s. Do you guys still think this way after reading the reports on mockfights between the J-10s and J-11s though? I know that the J-11 is a superb AA platform too but the maintenance cost for a twin engined heavy fighter is higher than that of a single engined fighter like the J-10. Besides China may face pressure from Russia and possibly India for such a deal. It seems that J-10B may be the best contender for the "high" in Pakistan's High-lo combination (Lo being the FC-1).

 

[gypgypgyp]

I don't know just how far China will upgrade the J-11s. Perhaps "Silent Flankers" will be the ultimate incarnation of Chinese J-11s, perhaps not. What I know for sure is that the J-11B is probably not going to be China's last domestic flanker variation.

Many Pakistani brothers support Pakistan's purchase of J-11s. Do you guys still think this way after reading the reports on mockfights between the J-10s and J-11s though? I know that the J-11 is a superb AA platform too but the maintenance cost for a twin engined heavy fighter is higher than that of a single engined fighter like the J-10. Besides China may face pressure from Russia and possibly India for such a deal. It seems that J-10B may be the best contender for the "high" in Pakistan's High-lo combination (Lo being the FC-1).

The battle result you mention about is happened around 2006, and it is J-10(which newly design and build around 2005) versus J-11(newly build but the design still use Su-27sk. Su-27sk was designed in late 1980's and into PLAAF service in 1992.) I don't think the result show the potential ability of two airframe, especially consider in version J-11b was in service around 2009.

and the advantage for Su-27 is that they are BIG, it is mean you have more free space to add up more stuff. Aircraft will be in service around 25 to 30 years. The MLU potential is realy essential point for any aircraft.