Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[airomerix]

I suspect that Pakistan decide to drop the balls on J-10B to increase the inventories of F-16 Block 52.

Will be terrible to do so. J-10 is the future dominator of the Asian airspace. Shouldnt miss it.

 

[araz]

Will be terrible to do so. J-10 is the future dominator of the Asian airspace. Shouldnt miss it.

Its all about tbe capabilities gained vs the cost. PAF tends to get the best it can out of the chinese products. I suspect it will waitrfor the WS10 to mature and we will hear some news around 2014-5 with delivery in 2017-18.There is another thing that this article mentioned which is the C version. Is that what we now want. I remain convinced that we will give the B a miss. Whether we set the marker for C or go for a stealthy platform is to be seen. The reason I feel is financial.
Araz

 

[Kompromat]

@araz

I think, PAF will wait for the J-31 to mature up, will work on finishing up the JF-17 delivery.

Both jets use the same class of engines which maybe a huge selling point for the J-31, when the WS-13 finally reaches production.

J-10B seems to be on the brink of being axed AFAIC

 

[That Guy]

I suspect that Pakistan decide to drop the balls on J-10B to increase the inventories of F-16 Block 52.

I suspect the opposite. PAF has increasingly started to look for excuses to actually put off buying more F-16s, simply because they're looking at the long term implications. They'll wait for the J-10, and delay any decision on the F-16s as much as they can. Remember, we still have 1-2 years more to go, there is still time for China to deliver on it's promise of the J-10Bs.

 

[That Guy]

@araz

I think, PAF will wait for the J-31 to mature up, will work on finishing up the JF-17 delivery.

Both jets use the same class of engines which maybe a huge selling point for the J-31, when the WS-13 finally reaches production.

J-10B seems to be on the brink of being axed AFAIC

I'd say they're more interested in the J-20 than they are of the J-31. Take a look at this little excerpt;

"However, “The meeting is welcome for Pakistan, of course,” he said, “as it maintains and enhances the cordial relations that exist between the countries, and no doubt there were discussions on provision of equipment and systems that neither side is going to divulge.”

Pakistan, though, has some clear requirements, but is hampered in being unable to acquire them due to lack of finances.

“The main items that Pakistan is interested in are combat ships and warplanes, notably the fifth-generation Chinese fighter, the J-20, but we are talking serious money, here, and at the moment Pakistan cannot afford to enter into a major commitment, and will have to keep the [US-supplied] F-16s flying for a long time yet,” Cloughley said.

Nevertheless, Cloughley believes “there are aspects of materiel cooperation — mainly in ammunition and electronics — that will continue to prosper.”

For Pakistan therefore, Cloughley thinks the talks, and wider Sino-Pakistani relationship, are of critical importance.

“The defense link is a most important one for Pakistan, and it can be expected that Islamabad will work hard to keep it smooth and worthwhile for both parties,” he said.

China and Pakistan Begin Biannual Air Exercise Shaheen 2 | Defense News | defensenews.com

Clearly, money is a problem, but so is the timeframe. Pakistan can't even consider buying any 5th gen, simply because it will take another 10 years to complete development, and another 3-5 years to meet PLAAF minimum inventory requirements. This means that Pakistan will have to wait at least 13-15 years before getting any 5th gen. Until then, Pakistan needs a high tech place holders, and the JF-17 isn't capable enough to meet the requirements of a high tech place holder. This means that Pakistan will either buy F-16s, or it will wait for China to finish development on the J-10Bs and then buy them. Remember, we still have a deadline of 2014-15 for the J-10s, so there is still time for Pakistan to get these fighters into it's inventory soon.

 

[SQ8]

I'd say they're more interested in the J-20 than they are of the J-31. Take a look at this little excerpt;

What would be the doctrinal justification for that purchase? Specifically for a long range interceptor/strike fighter?

 

[Dillinger]

What would be the doctrinal justification for that purchase? Specifically for a long range interceptor/strike fighter?

Well PAF will eventually have to acquire a LO platform, no?

 

[That Guy]

What would be the doctrinal justification for that purchase? Specifically for a long range interceptor/strike fighter?

Beats me, I'm not saying that I understand the logic behind it, but it is obvious that the PAF is looking at the J-20. I think it may have to do with deep strike capabilities, a fighter that's able to go deep in enemy territory and take out ground targets. India has had this capability for a while with it's Flankers, but Pakistan does not. It might be a situation where the PAF feels that it has to bridge the gap between the two nations, if not by number, than by capability.

Again, I'm not a air force expert and I'm just talking out of my ***, so don't take me seriously at all.

 

[That Guy]

Well PAF will eventually have to acquire a LO platform, no?

LO? I'm not familiar with military lingo, please explain. If you mean low observability, it could easily go with the J-31, because unlike the J-20, the J-31 is a corporate funded platform, and would be available for export on day 1. So the question is, why the J-20 over the J-31, or vice versa?

 

[Dillinger]

LO? I'm not familiar with military lingo, please explain. If you mean low observability, it could easily go with the J-31, because unlike the J-20, the J-31 is a corporate funded platform, and would be available for export on day 1. So the question is, why the J-20 over the J-31, or vice versa?

J-31 is more likely. It will fit into the PAF's operational doctrine neatly. The PAF has been shy of operating heavy platforms and understandably so. At the end of the day though a LO/VLO platform is always going to be maintenance intensive- far more so than any of the cutting edge 4.5 gen fighters for eg. RVRs which will required to check on the LO integrity of the AC and ensure that no deviation has occurred among many other things.

Yup, LO=Low observable

 

[RAMPAGE]

J-31 is more likely. It will fit into the PAF's operational doctrine neatly. The PAF has been shy of operating heavy platforms and understandably so. At the end of the day though a LO/VLO platform is always going to be maintenance intensive- far more so than any of the cutting edge 4.5 gen fighters for eg. RVRs which will required to check on the LO integrity of the AC and ensure that no deviation has occurred among many other things.

Yup, LO=Low observable

yara imo PAF will go with J-31's and PN should replace its Mirage 5's with J-20's.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think for now it will be J-10A, if not J-10B as J-31 is good 13-15 years away as mentioned by someone above. Even if PLAAF does not induct it, it is good 8-10 years away. J-10B is getting momentum and as we know the timeline for its induction in PAF is Post 2014, i.e. 2015-16. So, it looks like that high ups of PAF and Pakistan military are pushing the Chinese to make J-10Bs (or J-10As) ready for their requirements ASAP so that they remain within the timeline. Remember, back in 2006, when it was originally decided that Pakistan will get FC-20, timeline was set 2014-15 ... and J-10As were flying since few time back then and I was used to think that this long delay to induct J-10s into PAF is due to PLAAF's own requirements. But when in 2008, J-10Bs surfaced, everything changed. People start to ask, what FC-20 actually is? And now it all makes complete sense. Back in 2006, no one wants to tell that world that CAC is working on an advanced version of the jet for PAF, so they came up with the name FC-20 just to keep everyone guessing. Till 2008, everyone believed that it was J-10A but know no one can say with complete certainty what it is and in 2006, there was no sign of anything like J-20 or J-31 as these were top secret Chinese projects.

So, by connecting all the dots, J-10A with WS-10 or J-10B, qualify as being FC-20 and only planes able to be inducted in Post 2014-15 timeline.... else F-16s remain the only option to fill the gap before J-31 gets FOC and ready for export.

Now coming towards issue of funds, Sometimes it perplex me that if today we cannot afford J-10s, what makes us so sure that PAF will be able to fund a project like J-31 if we axe J-10? J-31 would be much expensive than J-10s.

yara imo PAF will go with J-31's and PN should replace its Mirage 5's with J-20's.

Yeah, those certainly need replacement but with something like J-11.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Yeah, those certainly need replacement but with something like J-11.

Why J-11 ?

 

[That Guy]

J-31 is more likely. It will fit into the PAF's operational doctrine neatly. The PAF has been shy of operating heavy platforms and understandably so. At the end of the day though a LO/VLO platform is always going to be maintenance intensive- far more so than any of the cutting edge 4.5 gen fighters for eg. RVRs which will required to check on the LO integrity of the AC and ensure that no deviation has occurred among many other things.

Yup, LO=Low observable

True, but I've been noticing (again, I'm talking out of my ***) that the PAF is actually changing it's doctrine. It's slowly going from a force that's capable of defence, to one that wants to have the capabilities to conduct offensive operations, such as deep strike missions and as we know, twin engine long range fighters are the best way of achieving that. The J-31 doesn't provide such capabilities, while the J-20 does.

 

[Gentelman]

Why J-11 ?

I don't guess you are serious about J-20 induction in PN……
what would be it's role in PN??
we just need a good dogfight fighter with enough hard points to threaten enemy combat ships from advancing and fullfill pattolling roles along with cheap and easy maintanance……
J-11 is also not economical but is a good punch…
I dont think PN can go for J-11 either…
maybe JFT block 2 will be replacing Mairages with some Electronic warfare improvements i.e IRST etc…
J-31 maybe but not before 2040+ coz if PAF would want them they would have a requirement and improvement list on board for chineese to work on…