Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[fatman17]

realistically PAF i aiming for 150 thunders 80 odd f-16s and 50 odd j-10s
and 50-75 odd stealth plans with force of around 350

to counter india 800 fighters in 2025

unless a better govt comes with a better econmy

PAF has never planned beyond 20-22 combat squadrons whatever the IAF strength. the ratio will remain 2:1 in IAF favour.

 

[Anony]

@ abdulbarijan

Hello my senior brother to this forum, your link don't seem that senior. Following are the reason why:

AESA RADAR: It is showing the prototype under development not developed and tested. Still has long way to go. As far as development is concerned I too know that it was under development from long time and that one day it will become reality. But that day is not now. Similar to AESA on LCA. This is the reason I never bring AESA into picture when I discuss about LCA because it will be completed in 2015 and surely it will take another one year to fully mature. Thus, I can't compare something of today by taking future into consideration. Thus F 16 blk 40 is even better than J 10. Let the day come and then we will again compare.

J 10 locked Su 30: Hell, you are giving another member's post as proof. Think today I wrongly say LCA is a 5th generation fighter then some Mr. X will link my post to claim that indeed LCA is a 5th gen fighter, will U believe it.

WS 10: Nice to know that WS 10 is integrated into J 10 for testing and that means in next two year it will be an operational engine. I considered that.

But again that indigenous engine doesn't make it comparable to 4.5 gen machine, even Russian engine was producing same thrust.

And when I say that Chinese government has not disclose any information, it was for all even for members from China. As it doesn't make sense that government is disclosing classified data to some members of this forum to come and talk abstract.

So from now onwards stop making fun of others and just discuss your points. But I am letting U go this time as by your post it seems that U r still a novice

 

[Viper0011.]

wow u r bringing jf-17 and f-22 and f-35 into one equation... lol..

Again, you guys don't read the whole thing do you?? 1: Why can't 3 dissimilar planes not allowed to mention in on paragraph?
2: The ONLY relevance was an external hard point that can ACT like the internal weapons way of F-22 and F-35 IN OPENING UP AND CLOSING upon the release of missiles. There wasn't a comparison between the three to begin with!!!
F-22 will chicken ROAST half the squadron of anything top line that's existing including SU-30, Rafale, EFT, etc, etc. HOW could the mighty F-22 EVEN compare to the JFT???? So refrain from spreading stupidity. Read the post first, understand it and then comment.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Hello my senior brother to this forum, your link don't seem that senior. Following are the reason why:

AESA RADAR: It is showing the prototype under development not developed and tested. Still has long way to go. As far as development is concerned I too know that it was under development from long time and that one day it will become reality. But that day is not now. Similar to AESA on LCA. This is the reason I never bring AESA into picture when I discuss about LCA because it will be completed in 2015 and surely it will take another one year to fully mature. Thus, I can't compare something of today by taking future into consideration. Thus F 16 blk 40 is even better than J 10. Let the day come and then we will again compare.

Oh wow .... what a great judgement you have ... so AESA radar of LCA tejas is similar to that of J-10B in terms of project development ... I find that quite funny considering ....
I have never seen an AESA fitted on an LCA nose.... Have you ??
And from the link it is clear that J-10B is being tested with AESA as of now ... and please dont bring LCA in to this all, cuz quite frankly you should see this...
LCA Navy - IDP Sentinel

Now as i have heard before wasn't it FOC that was to be achieved by 2014, and after FOC the MK-II version with AESA ......a different version which would in turn require some design changes and in turn MORE DEVELOPMENT AND MORE TIME

But as i recall your first statement wasn't even the one you are trying to defend as of now

It will have AESA radar.(not having)

this is what you said kiddo, but now supposedly you know about the development of AESA and it being tested on J-10B but according to you the development is comparable to LCA AESA ... which is to be introduced after LCA MK-1 receives FOC which would be after its IOC and according to the link i gave (of an indian source) ... it happens to be (post 2014 just for IOC)


So I just envy your logic .... my friend ...

J 10 locked Su 30: Hell, you are giving another member's post as proof. Think today I wrongly say LCA is a 5th generation fighter then some Mr. X will link my post to claim that indeed LCA is a 5th gen fighter, will U believe it.

The only difference is kiddo, LCA being 5th generation cannot be defended, on the other hand a J-10 locking on SU-30 is a bright possibility why not .. PLAAF operates 2 of the most successful flankers (SU-27 & SU-30 MKK) and have made fighters based on their designs J-11 & J-16, so you dont think that their crown indigenous project can even lock on such fighters or is it that your ego is starting to hurt ...
the person that reported is an insider and has much more reliable information than most of the people on this forum .... certainly more than you and I put together ...

WS 10: Nice to know that WS 10 is integrated into J 10 for testing and that means in next two year it will be an operational engine. I considered that.

But again that indigenous engine doesn't make it comparable to 4.5 gen machine, even Russian engine was producing same thrust.

And when I say that Chinese government has not disclose any information, it was for all even for members from China. As it doesn't make sense that government is disclosing classified data to some members of this forum to come and talk abstract.

So from now onwards stop making fun of others and just discuss your points. But I am letting U go this time as by your post it seems that U r still a novice

Oh bless you for letting me go, such a generous man, so a 4.5 generation fighter requires a certain level of thrust to be 4.5 generationso lets go by your standards

a Gripen is not a 4.5 generation fighter cuz it can offer only arund 100 KN of thrust, but an F-14 Tomcat offering over 100 Kn of thrust by each engine would make it what exactly?????? ...wow ...

Actually the WS-10B offers slightly high thrust with TVC a BIG upgrade to the already present AL-31's .. i guess it was around 125 KN while the WS-10 B is above 130 KN along with TVC... Which brings the T/R to 1+ ..

Im glad im a novice, on the bright side even a novice on PDF has the ability to OWN a certain experienced defense analyst ... pity pity

 

[Anony]

Abdul don't talk baseless. First comprehend properly what I said and then talk precisely.

I am not bringing LCA and neither comparing it with J 10, I am only saying that AESA radar has not been fitted on J 10 nose. It's still under development. If U have any personal problem to accept an example of LCA then take Gripen's example, where again AESA radar is under development or trial not integrated and tested.
And yes nowhere it was stated that AESA radar has been integrated to J 10, it was written J 10b is going to have AESA radar.

Whether J 10 can lock on SU 30 or F 22 that is not the question, the question is the proof which U have failed to provide.

A fighter is not a 4.5 gen fighter if it can produce 100kn of thrust but on whether it's thrust to weight ratio is more than 1. What I am telling that WS 10 is giving the similar thrust what the Russian engine was providing.

And talking about ego, dude atleast I can have ego because we are almost ready with LCA, a 4.5 gen aircraft, once we get F414 engine.

Talking about you, you r not in the race dude,a country which can't make a helicopter thinking about fighter planes.

So from next time if U have need to say anything, first understand what i need to say and then talk, that will make sense. Not simple ranting

 

[Ammyy]

Oh wow .... what a great judgement you have ... so AESA radar of LCA tejas is similar to that of J-10B in terms of project development ... I find that quite funny considering ....
I have never seen an AESA fitted on an LCA nose.... Have you ??
And from the link it is clear that J-10B is being tested with AESA as of now ... and please dont bring LCA in to this all, cuz quite frankly you should see this...
LCA Navy - IDP Sentinel

Now as i have heard before wasn't it FOC that was to be achieved by 2014, and after FOC the MK-II version with AESA ......a different version which would in turn require some design changes and in turn MORE DEVELOPMENT AND MORE TIME

But as i recall your first statement wasn't even the one you are trying to defend as of now



this is what you said kiddo, but now supposedly you know about the development of AESA and it being tested on J-10B but according to you the development is comparable to LCA AESA ... which is to be introduced after LCA MK-1 receives FOC which would be after its IOC and according to the link i gave (of an indian source) ... it happens to be (post 2014 just for IOC)


So I just envy your logic .... my friend ...





The only difference is kiddo, LCA being 5th generation cannot be defended, on the other hand a J-10 locking on SU-30 is a bright possibility why not .. PLAAF operates 2 of the most successful flankers (SU-27 & SU-30 MKK) and have made fighters based on their designs J-11 & J-16, so you dont think that their crown indigenous project can even lock on such fighters or is it that your ego is starting to hurt ...
the person that reported is an insider and has much more reliable information than most of the people on this forum .... certainly more than you and I put together ...




Oh bless you for letting me go, such a generous man, so a 4.5 generation fighter requires a certain level of thrust to be 4.5 generationso lets go by your standards

a Gripen is not a 4.5 generation fighter cuz it can offer only arund 100 KN of thrust, but an F-14 Tomcat offering over 100 Kn of thrust by each engine would make it what exactly?????? ...wow ...

Actually the WS-10B offers slightly high thrust with TVC a BIG upgrade to the already present AL-31's .. i guess it was around 125 KN while the WS-10 B is above 130 KN along with TVC... Which brings the T/R to 1+ ..

Im glad im a novice, on the bright side even a novice on PDF has the ability to OWN a certain experienced defense analyst ... pity pity

You can make so many claims about AESA, Engine but can not prove even a single
Their only known fighter is FC1 and we all know about it.

 

[Anony]

Again, you guys don't read the whole thing do you?? 1: Why can't 3 dissimilar planes not allowed to mention in on paragraph?
2: The ONLY relevance was an external hard point that can ACT like the internal weapons way of F-22 and F-35 IN OPENING UP AND CLOSING upon the release of missiles. There wasn't a comparison between the three to begin with!!!
F-22 will chicken ROAST half the squadron of anything top line that's existing including SU-30, Rafale, EFT, etc, etc. HOW could the mighty F-22 EVEN compare to the JFT???? So refrain from spreading stupidity. Read the post first, understand it and then comment.

@orangzaib: R u an idiot by birth or U love poking.

If U don't know, I would like to remind U that this thread is been opened to have a descriptive comparison between J 10, Mig 29k and N-LCA. From where have u brought the F22. Since U have poked in :

Look at the video of the reply no. 7 posted by sudhir007 where your own national media has something to say about F 22.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/60944-pak-fa-vs-f22-raptor-detailed-analasis.htmlhttp://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/60944-pak-fa-vs-f22-raptor-detailed-analasis.html

Abdul don't talk baseless. First comprehend properly what I said and then talk precisely.

I am not bringing LCA and neither comparing it with J 10, I am only saying that AESA radar has not been fitted on J 10 nose. It's still under development. If U have any personal problem to accept an example of LCA then take Gripen's example, where again AESA radar is under development or trial not integrated and tested.
And yes nowhere it was stated that AESA radar has been integrated to J 10, it was written J 10b is going to have AESA radar.

Whether J 10 can lock on SU 30 or F 22 that is not the question, the question is the proof which U have failed to provide.

A fighter is not a 4.5 gen fighter if it can produce 100kn of thrust but on whether it's thrust to weight ratio is more than 1. What I am telling that WS 10 is giving the similar thrust what the Russian engine was providing.

And talking about ego, dude atleast I can have ego because we are almost ready with LCA, a 4.5 gen aircraft, once we get F414 engine.

Talking about you, you r not in the race dude,a country which can't make a helicopter thinking about fighter planes.

So from next time if U have need to say anything, first understand what i need to say and then talk, that will make sense. Not simple ranting

 

[ringmaster]

Abdul don't talk baseless. First comprehend properly what I said and then talk precisely.

I am not bringing LCA and neither comparing it with J 10, I am only saying that AESA radar has not been fitted on J 10 nose. It's still under development. If U have any personal problem to accept an example of LCA then take Gripen's example, where again AESA radar is under development or trial not integrated and tested.
And yes nowhere it was stated that AESA radar has been integrated to J 10, it was written J 10b is going to have AESA radar.

Whether J 10 can lock on SU 30 or F 22 that is not the question, the question is the proof which U have failed to provide.

A fighter is not a 4.5 gen fighter if it can produce 100kn of thrust but on whether it's thrust to weight ratio is more than 1. What I am telling that WS 10 is giving the similar thrust what the Russian engine was providing.

And talking about ego, dude atleast I can have ego because we are almost ready with LCA, a 4.5 gen aircraft, once we get F414 engine.

Talking about you, you r not in the race dude,a country which can't make a helicopter thinking about fighter planes.

So from next time if U have need to say anything, first understand what i need to say and then talk, that will make sense. Not simple ranting

so what in ur opinion is a true 4.5 gen aircraft?wht are the parameters for it?

 

[ringmaster]

if u consider su 30 a 4.5 gen then chinese have got plenty of these so they can compare the perfomance of both the aircrafts

 

[abdulbarijan]

Abdul don't talk baseless. First comprehend properly what I said and then talk precisely.

I am not bringing LCA and neither comparing it with J 10, I am only saying that AESA radar has not been fitted on J 10 nose. It's still under development. If U have any personal problem to accept an example of LCA then take Gripen's example, where again AESA radar is under development or trial not integrated and tested.
And yes nowhere it was stated that AESA radar has been integrated to J 10, it was written J 10b is going to have AESA radar.

Whether J 10 can lock on SU 30 or F 22 that is not the question, the question is the proof which U have failed to provide.

An AESA/PESA on a J-10B nose is not enough proof ??

So since you compared the "development with LCA" why dont you show an LCA having an AESA on its nose ...

Dont forget its the same China that brought two stealth designs on the table in less than 2 years ... And is operating indigenous AWACS like KJ-2000 and is exporting AESA based platforms like ZDK-03 ....

hmm really .. well lets reverse the tables ... I provided you with a reliable insider who posted this news ... now would you do the honors of posting a reliable insider news (some one of pupu's status on online forums) to counter my claims ...

or is it the fact that you dont have anything to contradict, except for pacifying to the same excuse of
"official media did not report it"

But even if it did, as always no amount of proof will be enough for u unless it comes from IBN live or times of india ...

A fighter is not a 4.5 gen fighter if it can produce 100kn of thrust but on whether it's thrust to weight ratio is more than 1. What I am telling that WS 10 is giving the similar thrust what the Russian engine was providing.

And talking about ego, dude atleast I can have ego because we are almost ready with LCA, a 4.5 gen aircraft, once we get F414 engine.

Talking about you, you r not in the race dude,a country which can't make a helicopter thinking about fighter planes.

So from next time if U have need to say anything, first understand what i need to say and then talk, that will make sense. Not simple ranting

WOW ... for the record with the WS-10B gives in excess of 130 KN and with loaded weight rated at 13000 Kg(there is some disparity in loaded weight however considering the use of extensive composites in J-10B, weight would be reduced), it gives J-10 1 + T/W ratio which by your own standards makes it a 4.5 generation fighter jet ...

Full steam ahead for China's engine designs ~ ASIAN DEFENCE

Yes "ALMOST" is the key here because almost got the date of the IOC to 2014, never mind the FOC and then the R&D for a new version including a whole new engine,new avionics, integrating new weapons, structural changes... that all will take 3-4 days right
ANd let me remind you,

@ abdulbarijan


WS 10: Nice to know that WS 10 is integrated into J 10 for testing and that means in next two year it will be an operational engine. I considered that.

So when will your 4.5 generation jet be operational considering you think its going to take two years for J-10 for a new engine (dont forget the details which i mentioned above and then answer )

Yes ofcourse we are not in the race, thats why such an experienced analyst is on our pathetic forum getting his rear end kicked from one place to another and only has one thing to say,
"you cant prove it "
even after seeing photographed evidence, but its not proof cuz "its a nightmare for you"

 

[Viper0011.]

@orangzaib: R u an idiot by birth or U love poking.

If U don't know, I would like to remind U that this thread is been opened to have a descriptive comparison between J 10, Mig 29k and N-LCA. From where have u brought the F22. Since U have poked in :

Look at the video of the reply no. 7 posted by sudhir007 where your own national media has something to say about F 22.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/60944-pak-fa-vs-f22-raptor-detailed-analasis.htmlhttp://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/60944-pak-fa-vs-f22-raptor-detailed-analasis.html

Abdul don't talk baseless. First comprehend properly what I said and then talk precisely.

The REASON why I brought F-22 into this thread was because one of your very smart countrymen posted FLIR pictures of the Rafale 'locking' onto the F-22. What a freaking joke. So, I had to come in and explain that when the half life of the drug taken before posting that FLIR picture was over, the reality was still that the F-22 taking down many of the top line jets before they can guess what hit them.
NO Pakfa, J-20 or anything else can come closer to the technology being used in the F-22. There's a reason why it's about $ 200 mil a piece.

Every country can make 'Stealthy' jets. ONLY the US can make the F-22. That's the bottom line and you can trust it or try it. Wouldn't recommend sending a few of your SU-30's against the F-22....on the radio, it sounds something like 'Contact Lost'..in the middle of what otherwise would seem to be a normal flight. Then followed by a sharp beep and a dark radar screen.............

 

[SQ8]

The REASON why I brought F-22 into this thread was because one of your very smart countrymen posted FLIR pictures of the Rafale 'locking' onto the F-22. What a freaking joke. So, I had to come in and explain that when the half life of the drug taken before posting that FLIR picture was over, the reality was still that the F-22 taking down many of the top line jets before they can guess what hit them.
NO Pakfa, J-20 or anything else can come closer to the technology being used in the F-22. There's a reason why it's about $ 200 mil a piece.

Every country can make 'Stealthy' jets. ONLY the US can make the F-22. That's the bottom line and you can trust it or try it. Wouldn't recommend sending a few of your SU-30's against the F-22....on the radio, it sounds something like 'Contact Lost'..in the middle of what otherwise would seem to be a normal flight. Then followed by a sharp beep and a dark radar screen.............

Thats what they dont get.. from the raptor kills.. to the Chinese sub surfacing near the fleet "undetected".
The US military is underplayed what it has.. There is nothing out there, that will see or beat the raptor.

 

[Viper0011.]

Thats what they dont get.. from the raptor kills.. to the Chinese sub surfacing near the fleet "undetected".
The US military is underplayed what it has.. There is nothing out there, that will see or beat the raptor.

Absolutely agreed. Just to make another point to folks getting excited over a friendly 'allowed' lock of a Rafale onto a F-22......you guys think that the US wasn't expecting the Russians or the Chinese to ever build stealthy jets???
The reality is (and it always bites, doesn't it ) that the F-22 wasn't built for the SU-30 or Rafale or EFT (all 90's designs)....it was built for what would be coming by 2030 (manned, unmanned, or from the aliens) .....the US stays about 2 to 3 decades ahead of all military curves that can exist. THAT's a fact.

 

[Safriz]

^^ Sorry i disagree with you and Oscar.
Raptor was also designed in 90s based on a russian scientist's research,so it is not something ultra advanced or unique to USA.
Just expensive,and full of features which can be worked around im a cheaper way.

 

[SQ8]

^^ Sorry i disagree with you and Oscar.
Raptor was also designed in 90s based on a russian scientist's research,so it is not something ultra advanced or unique to USA.
Just expensive,and full of features which can be worked around im a cheaper way.

Thats something..
the raptor was designed in the 90's.. but has features(and lots and lot of room for more of them) to tackle threats in the 2030's.
Its expensive because its breaking so many boundaries.

Think of it this way, the F-15 is a product of the late sixties.. but it is still considered one of the deadliest things in the sky today. Had it remained the old 70's fighters.. it would have made sense. But continuous updates have kept it very very relevant.
What makes you believe that raptor(which has a lot more potential for upgrades) wont be then