Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Viper0011.]

^^^ what ever you are mentioning stealthy or stealthy, it need complete new design...... how can you get stealthy JF-17 with external hard points.... huh....

If you re-read the post....the term used for JFT was SEMI-Stealth due to the current design limitations. However, a type of a diamond-shaped boxed hard point (stealthy) can be designed that can hold 2 (or more) bvr's in it easily (multiple ejectors within the stealth box) and can release them just like internal weapons bay. The time of release would be the only time when the signature will increase, just like F-22 or F-35. But that should be a fraction of a second.
This stealthy hard point is much easier to so than redesigning the airframe for stealthy features and include the internal weapons bay. The rest of the airframe can be optimized for Stealth due to the use of RAM / Carbon Fiber / composites and compressed airflow exit to reduce the signature, both Radar and IR. This is a much cost effective and quicker process than redesigning a whole airframe, engine nozzles, testing, rework, etc.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

If you re-read the post....the term used for JFT was SEMI-Stealth due to the current design limitations. However, a type of a diamond-shaped boxed hard point (stealthy) can be designed that can hold 2 (or more) bvr's in it easily (multiple ejectors within the stealth box) and can release them just like internal weapons bay. The time of release would be the only time when the signature will increase, just like F-22 or F-35. But that should be a fraction of a second.
This stealthy hard point is much easier to so than redesigning the airframe for stealthy features and include the internal weapons bay. The rest of the airframe can be optimized for Stealth due to the use of RAM / Carbon Fiber / composites and compressed airflow exit to reduce the signature, both Radar and IR. This is a much cost effective and quicker process than redesigning a whole airframe, engine nozzles, testing, rework, etc.

once you done it we will talk about it, BTW which metal the JF-17 uses ? i am bet sure it wont be using titanium.

China will posess 1800 of 4 gen and 4.5gen fighters , Plus 200 stealthy fighter in year 2020. Better for India to be a good boy in the region, leave Pakistan alone.

BTW way most of your 1800 or so MIG-21 type plane not able to cross mountains. the remaining russian design will be taken care by SU-30 MKI.


Dont worry, With Russia , US, Vietnam , Japan and India , India will be a ***** cat again..... behave yourself or you will be again reach dark ages.....

not only design make thing stealth.. material also matters..

 

[Viper0011.]

Realistically,(keeping in mind of money) I would say:

350 JF-17 (Block 1, 2, 3)
70 F-16 (Block 40 MLU, 52)
70 J-10B
50 J-31

to counter IAF's:

272 Su-30 MKI
120 Rafale
68 Mig-29
45 Mirage 2000
? LCA
? PAKFA

I think you've WAY over simplified the equation. You are giving Pakistan almost 600 combat ready jets with India having about 500 of them and two question marks on LCA and PakFa. You realize they also have a ton of strike aircraft, etc that they'll be using till 2025 at the least? So if we add 200 LCA and 100 PakFa.....your total number reaches to 1200 Indian planes estimated vs. 600 Pakistani jets.
This STILL is a very potent number and can allow Pakistan to hold its own as India won't just put 1200 jets off the Western border. However, the plane to plane comparison gets a little towards hi end from India to mid end of Pakistan (JFT B I & II). Assuming Indians actually do what they've been saying about the capability of LCA (with the Western help, it'll eventually get there).

But to go back to the scenario, Pakistan will need either about 2-4 squadrons of J-31 and about 4 squadrons of J-16 (additional 140 - 160 planes will be needed to be added to your mix). These will be for PAF and PN. The PN will need a dedicated air arm. Even though I think they should have a mix of 2 - 4 squadrons of J-16 and at least 1 squadrons of J-31, I think they might get 2 squadrons of J-16 and 1 of J-31. The rest will go to PAF. So you need to add about 140 more planes to your list.

India is fielding the top of the line equipment next to the Pakistani border so you'll need the top end planes in the war scenario available to deliver a punch. JFT B II and III may be very good but they'll be dealing with LCA and others. I think its safe to assume that LCA may see similar numbers compared to JFT. If the above numbers can be met or closely met, it will be VERY difficult for India to win an air war from Pakistan. Unless they move 100% of their assets to the West (which can't happen). So Pakistan will need to swallow the bitter pill and buy some advanced jets in numbers to zero out the Indian technology and machine ratio. it'll go back to 1:2 and Pakistani pilots are trained to handle the 1:2 scenario. The next critical item is layered air defense, specially the long range 100 mile out SAMS. Pakistan needs to procure, tot and then internally produce SAMS with advance AESA with high altitude and long ranges. These will need to make the out tier and the most inner tier. Backed up by short range area defense and medium range intermediate range. (similar to what China's done off the coast around Taiwan).

This will ensure a very solid deference. to take care of either side of the border.
The point is, you need to add at least 30 more J-31 to your numbers and about 80 J-16's.

 

[帅的一匹]

BTW way most of your 1800 or so MIG-21 type plane not able to cross mountains. the remaining russian design will be taken care by SU-30 MKI.


Dont worry, With Russia , US, Vietnam , Japan and India , India will be a ***** cat again..... behave yourself or you will be again reach dark ages.....

not only design make thing stealth.. material also matters..

can you read man? I said 4 gen fighters, since when Mig21 is s 4 gen fighters?BTW, its called J7 , Mig21 of IAF won't last until 2020 cause it will keep crash like flying coffin. No one will be with you when you aganist China, dream on. Nehru called USAAF to provide air cover during 1962 war, the anwser was a big damn NO, a slap right on his face/indian way of thinking! Mental masturbation hurts your fragile body. With a much stronger China nowadays, will you think USA will ever help you fight China for your ambitious delusion?

 

[danger007]

If you re-read the post....the term used for JFT was SEMI-Stealth due to the current design limitations. However, a type of a diamond-shaped boxed hard point (stealthy) can be designed that can hold 2 (or more) bvr's in it easily (multiple ejectors within the stealth box) and can release them just like internal weapons bay. The time of release would be the only time when the signature will increase, just like F-22 or F-35. But that should be a fraction of a second.
This stealthy hard point is much easier to so than redesigning the airframe for stealthy features and include the internal weapons bay. The rest of the airframe can be optimized for Stealth due to the use of RAM / Carbon Fiber / composites and compressed airflow exit to reduce the signature, both Radar and IR. This is a much cost effective and quicker process than redesigning a whole airframe, engine nozzles, testing, rework, etc.

wow u r bringing jf-17 and f-22 and f-35 into one equation... lol..

 

[Anony]

Chinese government never discloses the performance of their fighter jet. So how come every one coming to the conclusion that j 10 is a very good aircraft comparable to F 16 Blk 52.

1. It will have AESA radar.(not having)

2. It can maneuverability of 9g.(it never had)

3. It will have WS 10/13 engine.(it don't have)

4. It can be compared to 4.5 gen fighter.(for what specific technology, only god knows)

5. It will have a very good EW suite.(No description about that good thing.)

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[Kompromat]

China will posess 1800 of 4 gen and 4.5gen fighters , Plus 200 stealthy fighter in year 2020. Better for India to be a good boy in the region, leave Pakistan alone.

China is following a different path to that of the United States. They want ALL stealthy fighters which is being opposed by many in the USAF. They will have poorly trained pilots because they wouldn't be able to provide enough hours for them to fly, they are planning to use simulators.

China on the other hand, would have a mix of 4 - 4.5 - 4++ and 5th generation air crafts and would slowly go down replacement platform path, but wouldn't get rid of its older fleet, which is a good strategy. PAF should do the same and focus on JF-17 development. This is our ace in a hole to keep our pilots one of the best in the world. Then comes equipment, which hopefully by 2020 we would see quite a lot of.

 

[帅的一匹]

Chinese government never discloses the performance of their fighter jet. So how come every one coming to the conclusion that j 10 is a very good aircraft comparable to F 16 Blk 52.

1. It will have AESA radar.(not having)

2. It can maneuverability of 9g.(it never had)

3. It will have WS 10/13 engine.(it don't have)

4. It can be compared to 4.5 gen fighter.(for what specific technology, only god knows)

5. It will have a very good EW suite.(No description about that good thing.)

.

.
.

Your sorry media failed to inform you about the truth of aforementioned, that's all.

You guys live in world of free media, even free to tell lies. Reference to BBC alike.

 

[帅的一匹]

You are new here , read more senior members' post before you post random here.

 

[Anony]

Yes I am new here but not new on defence related talks. Instead of acting like a step brother, simply give us a link that what extra features are there in j 10 to call it's a 4.5 gen fighter or calling it comparable to F 16 blk 52.

Or prove that my post are wrong.

 

[INDIAISM]

Yes I am new here but not new on defence related talks. Instead of acting like a step brother, simply give us a link that what extra features are there in j 10 to call it's a 4.5 gen fighter or calling it comparable to F 16 blk 52.

Or prove that my post are wrong.

AESA or PESA radar...Btw F16 Blk 52 itself is almost a 4.5 Gen Fighter jet the thing it mising is AESA radar....

 

[trident2010]

Again the same questions arises. Lookwise, yes J-10 seems to be nice design like eurocanards however, apart from that what makes it better than say F-16 blk 52 or Mig-29 SMT? May be a reliable source of information which give a details regarding engine, radar, EW suite etc would be useful for the discussion. And most important how they compare with for example F-16 blk 52 or Mig-29 SMT?

 

[abdulbarijan]

Chinese government never discloses the performance of their fighter jet. So how come every one coming to the conclusion that j 10 is a very good aircraft comparable to F 16 Blk 52.

1. It will have AESA radar.(not having)

2. It can maneuverability of 9g.(it never had)

3. It will have WS 10/13 engine.(it don't have)

4. It can be compared to 4.5 gen fighter.(for what specific technology, only god knows)

5. It will have a very good EW suite.(No description about that good thing.)

.
.
.
.

Yes I am new here but not new on defence related talks. Instead of acting like a step brother, simply give us a link that what extra features are there in j 10 to call it's a 4.5 gen fighter or calling it comparable to F 16 blk 52.

Or prove that my post are wrong.

Welcome to the forum mate and a friendly advise please refrain from asking such BS that has been answered many times before or else we dont give the same treatment to a specific nationality like somewhere else on the internet ....


Coming to your allegations ...
lets review ... Like you yourself state, China does not officially disclose details however that doesn't mean they dont have the goodies... they just dont like to boost about things .. unlike someone that starts boosting about things they will get a decade after they first start boosting about it


-J-10B not having AESA/PESA radar....
Chinese AESA Radar Development For J-10B And J-20 Fighter Jets ~ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS

-Maneuverability of 9G's
why dont you give us a link saying it cant, as far as reports go, it locked SU-27 based J-11's and two from the SU-30 family,

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/118638-vietnam-su-30-locked-j-10-10-times.html

The design of J-10 (canard delta configuration) is used by the most advanced jets in service as of today (gripen,Rafale and EF-2000)

Engine issue

See this.. A WS-10 powered prototype of J-10B
Chengdu Flies Chinese-powered J-10 Fighter | Aviation International News

J-10 a 4.5 generation jet
Now what else will you call a fighter with AESA radar using a very advanced design with a good payload capability, RAM coatings for RCS reduction, state of the art weaponry and a performance track ( Keep in mind it was J-10A or basic J-10 that outperformed the flankers, its only going to be better in the B model when a TVC capable engine in the form of WS-10 is introduced which happens to be fitted in one of the prototypes)

So why dont you please prove your allegation ...instead of asking us to prove you wrong ... which we will gladly do ....




SO NOW MY BOY BEFORE OPENING UP YOUR YAP AGAIN, DO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH HECK OF A LOT KNOWLEDGE THAN A SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERIENCED DEFENSE ANALYST LIKE YOURSELF ....

 

[sancho]

If you re-read the post....the term used for JFT was SEMI-Stealth due to the current design limitations. However, a type of a diamond-shaped boxed hard point (stealthy) can be designed that can hold 2 (or more) bvr's in it easily (multiple ejectors within the stealth box) and can release them just like internal weapons bay. The time of release would be the only time when the signature will increase, just like F-22 or F-35. But that should be a fraction of a second.
This stealthy hard point is much easier to so than redesigning the airframe for stealthy features and include the internal weapons bay. The rest of the airframe can be optimized for Stealth due to the use of RAM / Carbon Fiber / composites and compressed airflow exit to reduce the signature, both Radar and IR. This is a much cost effective and quicker process than redesigning a whole airframe, engine nozzles, testing, rework, etc.

You are thinking about the Silent Hornet here, but are missing the main points!

- even the Silent Hornet carries it's IR missiles at the wingtips, which counters most of the reduction of the weaponpod again
- the main contributor to RCS reduction (not stealth) of that version was deleting external fuel tanks with CFTs
- JF 17 as of now has hardly any RCS reduction features, infact it might be the only modern fighter development without composites materials and RAM coatings included from the design stage, which makes further reductions more difficult again

So even to get a "Silent JF 17", you have to completelly re-design the whole fighter, which translates into high costs and limited performance compared to a real stealth fighter. It would be more realistic to reduce the RCS of it in minor stages with the coming upgrades and benefit from the low operational costs, to safe money for J31 in future, since it is pretty likely that 1 x J31 = 2 or 3 x JF17 in terms of procurement or operational costs!

To bring it back to the topic again, J10B makes only sence for PAF, if it offers credible capability advantages over JF 17 upgrades, or if J31 is a very costly and long shot. It would be a cost-effective stopgap solution but from what we know so far, it don't seems to have many real improvements and without Chinese engines PAF seems not to want it anyway.

 

[ziaulislam]

realistically PAF i aiming for 150 thunders 80 odd f-16s and 50 odd j-10s
and 50-75 odd stealth plans with force of around 350

to counter india 800 fighters in 2025

unless a better govt comes with a better econmy