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Changing times: Ijtihad and other questions Muslims must revisit

In your bigoted view of Islam, no Muslim woman can lead the nation, yet people of Pakistan voted for Benazir Bhutto like crazy. What went wrong?

I don't think it is his 'bigoted' view. If women were indeed 'allowed' to lead Muslim nations then Hazrat BB Ayesha (RA) would have been given the charge after the demise of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) or after the demise of the 2 elder Caliphs. However, from history it is evident, that Hazrat BB Ayesha (RA), who was the mother of all believers, was not even in contention at any moment for the position. That is my own understanding.

As for Benazir, well, have you ever been to Sindh, especially interior Sindh? Have you come across Sindhis? How often have you come across religious Sindhis? Sindhis are either not religious or are extremely 'secular' in their religion. I cannot speak of Punjab but basically people throughout Pakistan vote on set principles that have not changed generation after generation. Pakistan is a country where Zardar became the president, what else do I have to say?
 
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dude, your view, if you can charge some youngsters of treason of supporting a specific cricket team, then we are justified
All I request of members when debating is that they bring sources to back assertions.
At the end of the day, there was no charge of treason applied on the Kashmiri students. They were however suspended because on grounds of 'provoking and inciting violence on the campus'.

I however have no idea if the suspension is permanent or temporary. Had they indeed been charged with treason, it would have been a grave injustice of law and fought by other Indians.

Secondly, how is what you do in Pakistan related to what happens in India? Are you not supposed to run your own affairs ? Or will you from hither to eternity keep looking at India to justify what you do?

If you can justify taking away a human beings choice of religion or where he finds spiritual solace, then you and your kin do not deserve to be classified as humans.
 
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but but, i think women can lead prayers, and why cant one advocate rights for women in light of Islam?

What is your concept of women's rights?On what criteria should one judge rights of women. Our creator created men and women differently and gave them due rights. He knows whats best for us and ordained laws accordingly. What u think has no value if it goes against Quran and sunnah.
Ruling on a woman leading men in prayer - islamqa.info

Women leading prayers - islamqa.info


Women may lead women only in prayer BUT NOT men.

 
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You do know its not possible like that in a democracy. He will be rebelled by his own party members. And moreover as a PM, he knows what better directions a country should take to deliver a goal in reducing poverty, economy and military strength. And the decisions can be popular and might be unpopular as well .
The question is if a person can deliver, irrespective of his faith.
Lets assume even if that president converts ur nation to secular, does it going to have any bearing for individual pakistanis?
Many young want jobs, education, peace.

A starving 'brahmin' may eventually eat beef to live. But is that what he would have wanted to do given the choice or lack thereof?
 
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Because the existence of your counry is based on religion...So religion is inseparatble part of Pakistan...And in the same vein, people like Zarvan are important face of Pakistan because they are the reason for its creation...you may like it or not, but if you remove people and mindset of people like Zarvan, you will face some uncomfortable question about existence of Pakistan itself...
I disagree. Post of the President or Prime Minister has NOTHING to do with the position holder's personal faith. Some say Barack Hussein Obama is crypto-Muslim. It doesn't make him a BAD president. If a Hindu, Christian or even Qadiani is capable of leading the country, why not give him / her a chance? Why do we HAVE to bring in the Islamic question here anyway?
 
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God or Islam doesnt need individuals to protect it. I have heard he is a Islamic scholar whom yu had quoted. He can maybe give answers
1stly I am a she
2ndly I am no scholar I just read up and keep reading till I find few articles which sound the same or have the same meaning then I know it is not exactly wrong and worth digging in to...
3rdly I have a sound base on Islamic knowledge through my curiosity, friends I had and exposure as a kid plus few courses I took (but nothing like a degree)
4thly, God nor Islam need protection....But the evil mind does conjure evil and maligning something or oppressing its true meaning is not tolerated either! ;)
 
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please post where you read....I have heard rumours about such things but nothing solid...

The only 1 i know is the "progressive liberal" lady in Canada who did such a thing....

She led prayers where women and men stood shoulder to shoulder and prayed...some even prayed without covering their head and others were just fidgeting during prayers esp standing in the middle of 2 women....not sure how much concentration did such a compact style prayer got them :unsure:

well in the times of Prophet women and men dont have such dirty thoughts in their minds ... today when ever you see a men and women together , mostly think negative ....
as there is a hadith i am not sure about .. that " A men and women are never alone , devil is always amongst them " @Zarvan , @Jf Thunder can quote the right one ...
 
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because Pakistan IS an Islamic state, bring a Muslim to the post of PM in Israel, or a Muslim to the post of President in USA, or a Muslim in India? all countries are based on some religion, so Pakistan is and will remain the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan

Do not bring India here...otherwise your thread will be detailed by your people only...Just to correct you ..India can have a Muslim PM...We have Muslim President,Vice President and chief on Intelligence Buerue is Muslim only...No law prohibit from Muslim from PM of India..
 
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1stly I am a she
2ndly I am no scholar I just read up and keep reading till I find few articles which sound the same or have the same meaning then I know it is not exactly wrong and worth digging in to...
3rdly I have a sound base on Islamic knowledge through my curiosity, friends I had and exposure as a kid plus few courses I took (but nothing like a degree)
4thly, God nor Islam need protection....But the evil mind does conjure evil and maligning something or oppressing its true meaning is not tolerated either! ;)

honestly it take few months for me to find out you are a " she " :D
 
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who is an Islamic scholar? Khala Jee?
Was Maududi the fool an Islamic scholar?

because some peoples here talking about a muslim leading a muslim state ...
Muslims leading Pakistan turned into a mess for the past 60+ years? Happy now, dude?

first of all sunni and shia will kill each other in council let alone they will solve other problems ..
what make you think that they can work together ? cant you see the sectarian violence in pak ... religious leaders provoked peoples to kill each other ...
LOL. Good point. They can't even celebrate Muharram without killing each other off. :D

whether Non Muslims can be heads of a state like Pakistan
And why can't they?

i agree with this
Yet you don't know who will be responsible for the interpretation in light of current times and that will be accepted by all Muslims

No they cant....when the prophet was alive....men and women did EVERYTHING possible to get MAXIMUM thawaab....now if women could lead prayer I think there would have been a hadith narrated by Aisha or others regarding even 1 woman doing so....
What if men are sick, unfit for leading prayers, what then?

free speech does not mean you can go about abusing everyone they want, there are limits to everything
LOL. Free speech means no one is above the freedom of speech. When you put prophets or their families above that, you get problems.

Because Pakistan is not just Pakistan but ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN ...Hence one needs to know and understand or appreciate the basics of Islam to be a ruler of an Islamic country.....We have seen how much respect Indians on PDF show Islam and their lack of understanding even on the basic concept of religion...
No, it wasn't. Not until Objectives Resolution was passed which went against Jinnah's vision for Pakistan.

but sadly those idiots are our religious leaders ... and our 80% of jahil awaam follow them
LOL. True. Jahil leaders, jahil awaam.

If they refuse to read the basic Quran than obviously they have nothing to challenge those misusing it....THE MAXIMUM penalty of Blasphemy is death not the minimum...You have a series of other penalties...feel free to google!
Why penalty for blasphemy at all?

only certain things .. you can not change any Quranic decision , tomorrow , today or in future ..
You can. Only a matter of interpretation.

time to kill those Idiots
Who are you? A jihadi terrorist? :D

1) This isnt even an Islamic issue since Pakistan is only semi Islamic and follows a twisted version of the Shariah so why worry about what Shariah has to say about ruling?
Yeah but Saudis and Iranians are following PERFECT version of Shariah. Not to forget ISIS Momineens :D

2) What does the constitution say?
About what?

all of them seen fair enough, should we not protect our Religion from Insults? it is applicable to Muslims too yup know? leaving Islam is a crime yes, its punishment is prescribed by the Islamic law
LOL. Why is leaving Islam a crime when entering Islam is not? More hypocrisies

I don't think it is his 'bigoted' view. If women were indeed 'allowed' to lead Muslim nations then Hazrat BB Ayesha (RA) would have been given the charge after the demise of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) or after the demise of the 2 elder Caliphs. However, from history it is evident, that Hazrat BB Ayesha (RA), who was the mother of all believers, was not even in contention at any moment for the position. That is my own understanding.

Who cares what Muslims did 1400 years ago? They were unaware of the principles of modern democracy.

What u think think has no value if if goes against Quran and sunnah.
So you say what we think has no value because it goes against some Mullahs interpretation of Islam? LOL :D

Because the existence of your counry is based on religion...So religion is inseparatble part of Pakistan...And in the same vein, people like Zarvan are important face of Pakistan because they are the reason for its creation...you may like it or not, but if you remove people and mindset of people like Zarvan, you will face some uncomfortable question about existence of Pakistan itself...
LOL. True.

the council should include a person of the sect involved
Will it include Qadianis? :D

you didnt tag me
You are a known Islamist, sorry I don't take Islamists.

And that is clear kufr only students and followers off Abu Juhal think Islam is seperate from state
Islam can be implemented without state intervention. Look at Turkey or Azerbaijan, fool!

no our constituion says that they cant be, so does it have the support of any Islamic law?
i think our Constitution is a bit more Islamic than semi, about quarter of it needs to amended maybe?
LOL. Our constitution is not Islamic. Its theocratic, full of Mullaiat!

Qadyanis are not Muslims enemy off RASOOL SAW like you can defend them as much as you want they will remain non Muslims
I don't defend Qadianis. I defend all religious minorities against bigoted Muslims like yourself.
 
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You do know its not possible like that in a democracy. He will be rebelled by his own party members. And moreover as a PM, he knows what better directions a country should take to deliver a goal in reducing poverty, economy and military strength. And the decisions can be popular and might be unpopular as well .
Theoretically true but once you have power this quote comes to play:

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Furthermore, if you have a PM who doesnt even know or lets say understand the sentiments of 98% of the population.....what use is such a leader and how long will it take him to pull the wrong string?


Lets assume even if that president converts ur nation to secular, does it going to have any bearing for individual pakistanis?
Many young want jobs, education, peace.
Yes it will ...coz along with Jobs, education and peace we have what the world calls an Islamic culture...

From what we wear to what we eat
From how we respect the adults to how much to give a needy during Eid (more than one would wanna otherwise)

all and every step is governed by Islam so how can that religion be over looked?
 
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well in the times of Prophet women and men dont have such dirty thoughts in their minds ... today when ever you see a men and women together , mostly think negative ....
as there is a hadith i am not sure about .. that " A men and women are never alone , devil is always amongst them " @Zarvan , @Jf Thunder can quote the right one ...

You are sadly mistaken if you think human instincts have changed over the years. The companions became the best of what mankind has to offer, but it does not mean that they were not tempted by their "nafs"... what sets them apart from the Muslims who converted after them was that they had impeccable control over it.
 
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Was Maududi the fool an Islamic scholar?
cant say about scholar, but i dont like him cuz he opposed Pakistan

Yet you don't know who will be responsible for the interpretation in light of current times and that will be accepted by all Muslims
what?

What if men are sick, unfit for leading prayers, what then?
actually in your case women can lead prayers

Will it include Qadianis?
they are not a sect

LOL. Our constitution is not Islamic. Its theocratic, full of Mullaiat!
it is Islamic, somewhat
 
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Do not bring India here...otherwise your thread will be detailed by your people only...Just to correct you ..India can have a Muslim PM...We have Muslim President,Vice President and chief on Intelligence Buerue is Muslim only...No law prohibit from Muslim from PM of India..
i know i know, the other dude cleared it out, sorry for bringing India here
 
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