Changing times: Ijtihad and other questions Muslims must revisit

[Jf Thunder]

lolz....


State like Pakistan

1) This isnt even an Islamic issue since Pakistan is only semi Islamic and follows a twisted version of the Shariah so why worry about what Shariah has to say about ruling?

2) What does the constitution say?

no our constituion says that they cant be, so does it have the support of any Islamic law?
i think our Constitution is a bit more Islamic than semi, about quarter of it needs to amended maybe?

 

[Judge]

all of them seen fair enough,
.
.
it is applicable to Muslims too yup know? leaving Islam is a crime yes, its punishment is prescribed by the Islamic law

Then I think I just wasted my time in trying to explain something to you.

If you can not respect an individuals freedom in choice of religion, then you are not human beings.

@Syed.Ali.Haider and @Oscar - You folks were talking about bringing change 'within the ambit of Islam' and all.
Do you agree or disagree with the assertion that an individual has the right to choose his/her religion ? And whether or not this law in Pakistan is right?

And fellow Pakistanis defending this law?

 

[Zarvan]

So Benazir Bhutto was not a Muslim? In view of ulemas, not woman should be allowed to govern an Islamic nation!


Says who? Ulemas?


Read here:
Objectives Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No. I said only Muslim sources say Jews of Medina did treachery. No other sources.


My point being is that these should be interpreted in light of modern times not as they were interpreted 1000 years ago.


Good luck with that


True. A concept alien to tradional Islamic minds.


Hypocrisy at its best!


Blasphemy was a crime here in the West too until they reformed and now they truly have free speech. You cannot have provisions like free speech in the constitution and then make Blasphemy laws. Hypocrites!

Qadyanis are not Muslims enemy off RASOOL SAW like you can defend them as much as you want they will remain non Muslims

 

[rockstar08]

the council should include a person of the sect involved

first of all sunni and shia will kill each other in council let alone they will solve other problems ..
what make you think that they can work together ? cant you see the sectarian violence in pak ... religious leaders provoked peoples to kill each other ...

 

[Jf Thunder]

So Benazir Bhutto was not a Muslim? In view of ulemas, not woman should be allowed to govern an Islamic nation!

who gives a damn about these fake Mullahs? what does Quran and Hadith says about it?

Says who? Ulemas?

uhh, the break the basic concept of Islam

My point being is that these should be interpreted in light of modern times not as they were interpreted 1000 years ago.

i agree with this

No. I said only Muslim sources say Jews of Medina did treachery. No other sources.

did they not help the Quraish during the wars?

Blasphemy was a crime here in the West too until they reformed and now they truly have free speech. You cannot have provisions like free speech in the constitution and then make Blasphemy laws. Hypocrites!

free speech does not mean you can go about abusing everyone they want, there are limits to everything

 

[Dubious]

1. No Non-Muslim can become the Prime Minister or the President of Pakistan.

Because Pakistan is not just Pakistan but ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN ...Hence one needs to know and understand or appreciate the basics of Islam to be a ruler of an Islamic country.....We have seen how much respect Indians on PDF show Islam and their lack of understanding even on the basic concept of religion...

2. Leaving Islam is a crime. That means that if any person wishes to become atheist or convert to another religion can be prosecuted and given a death penalty!
Yet everyone else is free to convert to Islam.

Now this is slightly screwed and it is screwed due to understanding problems of our trigger happy courts!
I am not sure how or why coz THAT is clearly against Islam:

Quran 4:137

Sahih International: Indeed, those who have believedthen disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.


Now if the person is killed after the 1st disbelieve how can he/ she believe and disbelieve again? So such a law of killing disbelievers is nonesense

Source: By the Numbers: Pakistan’s Perilous Religious Laws

3. Insulting Mohammad or Islam carries a death penalty. Please note that insulting the religious feelings of others is also a crime in India, US, Europe, etc, etc. This blasphemy law however specifically targets non-Muslims.

Again one needs to know and understand Islam in order to challenge those misusing it!

If they refuse to read the basic Quran than obviously they have nothing to challenge those misusing it....THE MAXIMUM penalty of Blasphemy is death not the minimum...You have a series of other penalties...feel free to google!

 

[rockstar08]

So Benazir Bhutto was not a Muslim? In view of ulemas, not woman should be allowed to govern an Islamic nation!


Says who? Ulemas?


Read here:
Objectives Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No. I said only Muslim sources say Jews of Medina did treachery. No other sources.


My point being is that these should be interpreted in light of modern times not as they were interpreted 1000 years ago.


Good luck with that


True. A concept alien to tradional Islamic minds.


Hypocrisy at its best!


Blasphemy was a crime here in the West too until they reformed and now they truly have free speech. You cannot have provisions like free speech in the constitution and then make Blasphemy laws. Hypocrites!

only certain things .. you can not change any Quranic decision , yesterday , today or tomorrow ..

 

[Jf Thunder]

first of all sunni and shia will kill each other in council let alone they will solve other problems ..
what make you think that they can work together ? cant you see the sectarian violence in pak ... religious leaders provoked peoples to kill each other ...

they can, those who suggest to kill are idiots

 

[Dubious]

but but, i think women can lead prayers, and why cant one advocate rights for women in light of Islam?

No they cant....when the prophet was alive....men and women did EVERYTHING possible to get MAXIMUM thawaab....now if women could lead prayer I think there would have been a hadith narrated by Aisha or others regarding even 1 woman doing so....

 

[Jf Thunder]

Then I think I just wasted my time in trying to explain something to you.
If you can not respect an individuals freedom in choice of religion, then you are not human beings.

dude, your view, if you can charge some youngsters of treason of supporting a specific cricket team, then we are justified

 

[rockstar08]

they can, those who suggest to kill are idiots

but sadly those idiots are our religious leaders ... and our 80% of jahil awaam follow them

 

[Jf Thunder]

No they cant....when the prophet was alive....men and women did EVERYTHING possible to get MAXIMUM thawaab....now if women could lead prayer I think there would have been a hadith narrated by Aisha or others regarding even 1 woman doing so....

i read somewhere about a woman who was a "Hafizza" and she lead prayers in a Masjid who was a bit away from Madianh

 

[Jf Thunder]

but sadly those idiots are our religious leaders ... and our 80% of jahil awaam follow them

time to kill those Idiots

 

[rockstar08]

time to kill those Idiots

religious leaders or awaam ?

 

[Dubious]

i read somewhere about a woman who was a "Hafizza" and she lead prayers in a Masjid who was a bit away from Madianh

please post where you read....I have heard rumours about such things but nothing solid...

The only 1 i know is the "progressive liberal" lady in Canada who did such a thing....

She led prayers where women and men stood shoulder to shoulder and prayed...some even prayed without covering their head and others were just fidgeting during prayers esp standing in the middle of 2 women....not sure how much concentration did such a compact style prayer got them