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@TankMan

I did give multiple caveats and that my argument was contingent on him being on duty.

On the separate subject of secularism , you appear to be from UK and you very well should know that secularism does not deny anything. There is a differance between stuffing religion down people's throats and giving elective choice. Living in UK do tell me if your faith has been compromised?

Has living in a heathen, secular country, surrounded by all that vice corroded your faith or your ability to practice your religion?

Do you know the SOP for Rangers and Armed Forces Personnel, for prayers while on duty?

No, I actually don't to be honest.
 
See those two guys in the background? They aren't blind and are covering for him. Evil doesn't stand a chance.
View attachment 223991

evil snipes the far soldier and then the praying soldier who is now rising ( and without shoes and i can't see his gun, by the way )... middle soldier shoots after a moment of panic... evil shoots middle soldier.

a bus carrying twenty citizen abduls and 10 citizen aminas is rocketed... evil shouts "takbeer !!!".

this happens in syria on a daily basis.

Do you know the SOP for Rangers and Armed Forces Personnel, for prayers while on duty?

would be of my interest to know too.
 
There's no logic!!!
During an ongoing war would you stop fighting just so that you could pray??? Being religious is good but following it blindly is not.
It would be blind if all of the other personal standing were offering prayers too....can't you see others are alert
 
@TankMan

I did give multiple caveats and that my argument was contingent on him being on duty.

On the separate subject of secularism , you appear to be from UK and you very well should know that secularism does not deny anything. There is a differance between stuffing religion down people's throats and giving elective choice. Living in UK do tell me if your faith has been compromised?

Has living in a heathen, secular country, surrounded by all that vice corroded your faith or your ability to practice your religion?



No, I actually don't to be honest.

I'm quoting this from personal experience. I don't think much has changed since I retired. @Xeric can correct me if I'm wrong.

10 / 15 min leave is allowed IF you are not under fire, and someone is covering your post / position. It becomes more lenient if you are not in the field.
 
I'm quoting this from personal experience. I don't think much has changed since I retired. @Xeric can correct me if I'm wrong.

10 / 15 min leave is allowed IF you are not under fire, and someone is covering your post / position. It becomes more lenient if you are not in the field.

Of course like the multiple caveats I gave if that soldier was following SOP as you determined them or was off duty that is differant matter. Everything I said was on the basis that he had just 'decided himself'.

@Skyliner Don't shoot me with that deadly thing.
@Indus Falcon You have great handle .. love the Indus Falcon. If you ever want to exchange with 'Atanz' lemme know ...
 
I did give multiple caveats and that my argument was contingent on him being on duty.
And I addressed your argument despite your caveats since your caveats did not say ''don't respond to the arguments''.
On the separate subject of secularism , you appear to be from UK and you very well should know that secularism does not deny anything.
Secularism in its pure form does deny religion. The version they have in the UK is not pure secularism, or 'enforced' secularism as I put it in my posts - much like their Democracy, it has restrictions that allow us the liberty to practice religion and live as minorities.

What I mean by restrictions is that, just like the majority in a Western Democracy can not decide to purge minorities, Secularism in a Western Nation is not absolute. Secularism has degrees - in some places, namely France, a ban on ''religious symbols'' has been introduced but not enforced much; that is a degree of secularism higher than that in the UK.

There is a differance between stuffing religion down people's throats and giving elective choice.
And how exactly is a soldier praying in the street ''stuffing'' religion down anyone's throats? If you're talking about Mullahs, I am already opposed to them so you don't need to convince me.
Living in UK do tell me if your faith has been compromised?
Practicing it is more difficult than it was in Pakistan. I've moved only recently and will probably be returning soon, so I don't know if my faith would be 'compromised' if I lived here for a longer period of time. I suspect it would not, since I choose to try as much as reasonably possible to practice it; but I do personally know many people who abandoned it after moving here.

Has living in a heathen, secular country, surrounded by all that vice corroded your faith or your ability to practice your religion?
Do not use the word ''heathen'' when discussing with me since I have never labelled any nation 'heathen' and your attempt to make me look like a mullah is painfully obvious. If you want a straight answer, yes, living in a non-Muslim country has corroded my ability to practice my religion but nothing else.

None of this, however, is relevant to secularism in Pakistan or the Pakistani armed forces. I oppose secularism in Pakistan because firstly, it would be impractical (depending on the degree of secularization; legalizing alcohol and drugs, for example, would not be practical) and secondly because I see Secularization as giving up on religion, essentially surrendering it to the terrorists. Banning the act of prayer by soldiers is another thing I oppose.

That is why I insist that the issue of a soldier praying should be discussed in terms of discipline; i.e he shouldn't have done so without permission from a superior and someone to cover his post - simply because of discipline, not because it is religion and religion is dangerous.
 
evil snipes the far soldier and then the praying soldier who is now rising ( and without shoes and i can't see his gun, by the way )... middle soldier shoots after a moment of panic... evil shoots middle soldier.

a bus carrying twenty citizen abduls and 10 citizen aminas is rocketed... evil shouts "takbeer !!!".

this happens in syria on a daily basis.
And what is to stop Evil from sniping the soldiers while they are not praying? No amount of soldiers would be able to stop a hit-and-run rocket attack on a bus. God, however, if he exists, could stop that rocket. Therefore a praying soldier has a higher chance of stopping a sudden rocket attack than a non-praying one. :agree:
 
Of course like the multiple caveats I gave if that soldier was following SOP as you determined them or was off duty that is differant matter. Everything I said was on the basis that he had just 'decided himself'.
At least you are honest about yourself. :cheers:

What is disappointing (to put it mildly), is that people, with the exception of a few, going on for 10 pages without knowing what the SOP dictates!!

OH AND lets not forget the clueless Indians, their level of intellect or hatred is truly remarkable :tup: (Sarcasm intended)
 
i defer to your experience but how would pak army/rangers sop work in a syrian situation?? i am just curious.
Obviously the SOP would be different depending on the level of alert and situation on the ground. In a Syrian city, it'd be more strict.
 
imagine karachi like this syrian city...

4736350-3x4-700x933-225x300.jpg


photo from - Someone’s Already Fighting ISIS: The Syrian Arab Army | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

i defer to your experience but how would pak army/rangers sop work in a syrian situation?? i am just curious.

You are not curious, this is your wishful thinking, blind hatred and inferiority complex at work here!

Use your brain, or borrow someones, since you like your fellow country men, seem to be devoid of it and ask yourself what would be the SOP in a situation like this?
 
@tank Man

All western countries including UK are actually either constitutionaly secular like France or by practice are secular like UK. There are varying degrees within the conception of secularism but rest assured not one of them remotely comes anywhere close to a Islamic republic.

My point here is simple, millions on millions of Muslims are quite happy to live in, swim in, drink in, born in, marry in, brought up in secular west but the moment secularism is mentioned in context of Pakistan arms go flinging up in disgust.

Living in non Islamic secular states seems acceptable but same thing becomes radioctive corrosive in context of Pakistan.

Is it just me that sees the schizophrenic thinking and beguiling hypocracy in this ?
 
And what is to stop Evil from sniping the soldiers while they are not praying? No amount of soldiers would be able to stop a hit-and-run rocket attack on a bus. God, however, if he exists, could stop that rocket. Therefore a praying soldier has a higher chance of stopping a sudden rocket attack than a non-praying one. :agree:

what did i just read?? :girl_wacko: :what: :blink:

i don't pray yet it is some haji's who contracted mers virus in saudia.
 
At least you are honest about yourself. :cheers:

What is disappointing (to put it mildly), is that people, with the exception of a few, going on for 10 pages without knowing what the SOP dictates!!

OH AND lets not forget the clueless Indians, their level of intellect or hatred is truly remarkable :tup: (Sarcasm intended)

Dunno how old you are but your a great guy ...
All the best.
 
what did i just read?? :girl_wacko: :what: :blink:

i don't pray yet it is some haji's who contracted mers virus in saudia.

He was being sarcastic!

Secondly, There was an incident with a course mate of mine, someone in his platoon got shot by a sniper, while praying. In your opinion, was that an honorable death?
 
You are not curious, this is your wishful thinking, blind hatred and inferiority complex at work here!

blind hatred towards what??

and me, jamahir, having inferiority complex?? :tdown:

Use your brain, or borrow someones, since you like your fellow country men, seem to be devoid of it and ask yourself what would be the SOP in a situation like this?

janaab, that chap can pray luxuriously because pakistan is not in a four-year-old transnational war... and in a situation like libya and syria, i would recommend you shooting that fellow because it will be his demonstrative types doing the terrorism.
 
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