Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[JamD]

tbh putting an AESA radar onto the Mirage III wouldn't be the craziest thing out there. The Israelis sort of did it with the Kfir Block-60. The question is whether the cost of doing it on the PAF's ROSE-Is is feasible enough. Perhaps there was an even smaller CETC AESA radar on offer?

I do wonder. You keep track of all of these products, any viable options?

 

[Deltadart]

tbh putting an AESA radar onto the Mirage III wouldn't be the craziest thing out there. The Israelis sort of did it with the Kfir Block-60. The question is whether the cost of doing it on the PAF's ROSE-Is is feasible enough. Perhaps there was an even smaller CETC AESA radar on offer?

As useful as the mirages have been to the defense of Pakistan, but the PAF always wanted to get rid of them at the first opportunity that never came their way. They didn't pursue the south African option, whereby they could have gained the valuable knowledge to make a brand new version of these jets at home. It's a sad and perhaps a criminal case of neglect, and missed opportunities. No one has ever been held responsible for this fiasco.
@denel

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I do wonder. You keep track of all of these products, any viable options?

I'm not knowledgeable of any specific products aside from KLJ-7A and LFK601. However, there are definitely other AESA radar options, e.g., the J-10CE likely uses a bigger system, while China's ISTAR drones likely carry much smaller SAR/GMTI radars. It wouldn't surprise me that there's a 500-600 TRM AESA radar on offer for small fighter applications like L-15. Something like that could be an option for the Mirage ROSE-I.

I wish we could troll by fitting an AESA radar, HMD/S, etc to the F-7PG. Call it Abhi-Bison and claim it can take out a Rafale.

 

[mingle]

SD10 had been successfully integrated on the belly hardpoint of Mirage ROSE 1. Congrats to all. Mirages have become BVR capable now .

Radar?

 

[Ali_Baba]

SD10 had been successfully integrated on the belly hardpoint of Mirage ROSE 1. Congrats to all. Mirages have become BVR capable now .

If there are no pictures - then it didnot happen .... just saying ..

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @kursed

If this is true then this can mean either:
1. The Chinese are willing to mate their missile to a Griffo radar. This might mean that the Italian radar option for the JF17 plus chinese missiles may have been more viable than originally thought. (and the Chinese radar won out based on capability and speed of integration and not some refusal of the Chinese to mate their missiles)
2. The Chinese installed a Chinese radar in the Mirage. AESA mirage 3?lol
3. This is just a statement about carrying the missile and not integration and firing.

Edit: 1 may be due to the induction of the PL15 and the existence of the PL15E, the SD10 isnt considered critical enough to be restricted in terms of integration.

4. Missile integrated for use with co-operative targetting via AEW&C / JF17s / F16s via Link-17.

PS - if they have done this - then i hope it is dual-rack. The centre line can take the weight and there is enough ground clearance for a dual rack.

The JF17 Block III has a belly mounted PL-15, so looks like PAF is finally getting into multi-missile payloads like it does with the F16s. "Logically" if it has integrated SD-10s via co-operative targetting - then there is no reason why you could not also adopt PL-15s once PAF gets some experience with the PL-15s.

 

[MIRauf]

I don't want to sound like a 'Debbie Downer' but what would be the Pros of 'five main Hardpoint and short legged' jet be to get the SD-10s, that too on center pylon ? It needs either center or two inner wing as fuel tanks to be relevant, unless it be escorting other M-III/V strike package but then what is the Point of JF-17 / J-10CP etc ?

Now if 'my wishful thinking', the fuel tank Pylon could carry SD-10 as well along with Fuel Tank 'ala F-15 style,' though very unlikely then one can say 'wow, cool, or even awesome.'

 

[Ali_Baba]

Does this mean we can "put at rest" all of the T-Darter / R-Darter "rumours from the early 2000's

 

[aliyusuf]

Radar?

Grifo-M3 ... approx 70km detection range for 5m^2 RCS targets.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Does this mean we can "put at rest" all of the T-Darter / R-Darter "rumours from the early 2000's

Well to be fair, the R-Darter is a legacy BVRAAM at this point.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Also - does this mean that China is about to unveil the PL-21 since both SD-10B and PL15 are with the PAF ??? China always likes to have a n+1 interms of capability.

link : https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...air-craft-news-discussions.3218/post-13540424

All this starting to feel like a pattern of disclosure for Chinese products that we have seen before. I am gonna wind up @Deino by saying "is China about to unveil the J10D with PL-21s and WS-15 engines ?" (it is a hobby of my'n now..)

The PL-21 is the missile in the middle on the link I have posted..

( btw - all this is a bit like conspiracy theories - if you say enough of them - eventually one of them will be correct ).

 

[blain2]

Radar?

Grifo M3. BVR capable, all-weather look-down, shoot-down PDR. Equal to APG-66 in terms of capabilities.

 

[JamD]

If there are no pictures - then it didnot happen


4. Missile integrated for use with co-operative targetting via AEW&C / JF17s / F16s via Link-17.

PS - if they have done this - then i hope it is dual-rack. The centre line can take the weight and there is enough ground clearance for a dual rack.

The JF17 Block III has a belly mounted PL-15, so looks like PAF is finally getting into multi-missile payloads like it does with the F16s. "Logically" if it has integrated SD-10s via co-operative targetting - then there is no reason why you could not also adopt PL-15s once PAF gets some experience with the PL-15s.

IMHO cooperative targeting isn't really as easy as you might think it is. Fire control radars work in frequencies especially suited to the precise information required by the missile, whereas the AEW&C is usually unable to provide this data to the required accuracy since it is optimized somewhat for detection range and not targeting precision. I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm just saying that it is much harder than people think and requires very specific work and features. An AEW&C may be feeding targeting data from another fighter like JF-17 or F-16 to the Mirage through the AEW&C. This is probably the most useful scenario.

An actual number 4 might be simply that the Mirage ROSE1s will fire their SD-10's in active mode to harass enemy aircraft - no integration with radar required. It will be one hell of a missile at short range with that much energy.

Also - does this mean that China is about to unveil the PL-21 since both SD-10B and PL15 are with the PAF ??? China always likes to have a n+1 interms of capability.

link : https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...air-craft-news-discussions.3218/post-13540424

All this starting to feel like a pattern of disclosure for Chinese products that we have seen before. I am gonna wind up @Deino by saying "is China about to unveil the J10D with PL-21s and WS-15 engines ?" (it is a hobby of my'n now..)

The PL-21 is the missile in the middle on the link I have posted..

( btw - all this is a bit like conspiracy theories - if you say enough of them - eventually one of them will be correct ).

Calm down sir lol.

 

[blain2]

missile itself is expensive then jet

Yes, but a smart move as all of these ROSE I Mirages are IFR capable as such in air defence roles, they would free up other HVAs like F-16s/JF-17s from AD duties with BVR OTH reach.

 

[GumNaam]

SD10 had been successfully integrated on the belly hardpoint of Mirage ROSE 1. Congrats to all. Mirages have become BVR capable now .

@PanzerKiel yaar pic tau banti hay...

so does that mean that the ROSE1 Mirages will carry Chinese KLJ7 Radars?

 

[Sayfullah]

How many ROSE 1 does Pakistan have?
Only ROSE 1 can fire it or other mirage as well?
Will it make ROSE 1 equivalent to Mirage 2000 in capability?