Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[MastanKhan]

Three scenarios have been discussed in great detail on this thread..... Matter fact going in circles, over and over again.
The 3000+ posts can be summed up in the following three categories.
1. Mirages are obsolete, replace them with newer aircrafts.
2. Refurbish or upgrade them to a higher standard.
3. Soldier on with in house improvements as necessary.

In light of our economic situation, PAF has neither the desire nor the funds to do anything elaborate with the the mirages....end of discussion.

Hi

Discussed by people who have no clues of tactics or mechanical inkling

 

[khanasifm]

Jf has crossed mirage 3/5 in range, max takeoff weight, max external load and weapons options so it’s best option to replace mirages

Infact for the first time after its induction the strike range in maritime and ground attack has been extended , block three will bring newer package both in air to air and air to ground in play which surpasses even f-16s

The only thing is pak economy is week and only one sqn per year average is max could be afforded

 

[Signalian]

F16 is not the right option as it's available weapon package is limited and it suffers from certain technical and strategic restrictions imposed by United States.
The Mirages which are currently 'worthy' of air defense role only, however, can be replaced by Jf17 in current configuration or by surplus F16s (which USA is not willing to allow as per now).
The need is to get an aircraft which can carry all types of munitions which Mirage RI/RII/RIII carries. Which can undertake standoff strike missions, maritime strike roles, SEAD/DEAD missions and anti armor roles.
EFT is too expensive, Gripen got American engine, Su35 has been rejected by PAF due to technical and political reasons and J10 adds too little to justify purchase of separate platform in the presence of Jf17.


Yeah, but Azm (NGFA) is not one on one replacement of Mirage. It's mission profile and operational utility will be very different.

F-16 has its own triage of problems, but its a formidable platform for strike missions, i didn't mention specialized squadrons to induct F-16 as Mirage replacement. Any new aircraft that replaces Mirage has to go through a lot of enhancements to carry Chinese weapons. EFT maybe expensive, but its a direct rival to Rafale. The induction of Chinese weaponry could be an issue, for that J-10 or J-31 seem probable, though EFT could bring a different weapon package of its own.

EFT also seems a suitable replacement for F-16 in coming decades, unless some 5th gen replaces F-16.

 

[Kabotar]

Did we try Mig35? It shares engines with thunders. Best case would be to get J20s in mid 20s that's when they are supposed to get WS15 and replace F16s with AZM.

F16 is not the right option as it's available weapon package is limited and it suffers from certain technical and strategic restrictions imposed by United States.
The Mirages which are currently 'worthy' of air defense role only, however, can be replaced by Jf17 in current configuration or by surplus F16s (which USA is not willing to allow as per now).
The need is to get an aircraft which can carry all types of munitions which Mirage RI/RII/RIII carries. Which can undertake standoff strike missions, maritime strike roles, SEAD/DEAD missions and anti armor roles.
EFT is too expensive, Gripen got American engine, Su35 has been rejected by PAF due to technical and political reasons and J10 adds too little to justify purchase of separate platform in the presence of Jf17.


Yeah, but Azm (NGFA) is not one on one replacement of Mirage. It's mission profile and operational utility will be very different.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Did we try Mig35? It shares engines with thunders. Best case would be to get J20s in mid 20s that's when they are supposed to get WS15 and replace F16s with AZM.

J-20 is banned for export by China, so forget J-20

 

[mingle]

F-16 has its own triage of problems, but its a formidable platform for strike missions, i didn't mention specialized squadrons to induct F-16 as Mirage replacement. Any new aircraft that replaces Mirage has to go through a lot of enhancements to carry Chinese weapons. EFT maybe expensive, but its a direct rival to Rafale. The induction of Chinese weaponry could be an issue, for that J-10 or J-31 seem probable, though EFT could bring a different weapon package of its own.

EFT also seems a suitable replacement for F-16 in coming decades, unless some 5th gen replaces F-16.

Italian EF taken by eygpt So more likely they gone if we get a good line of credit along less string weapon package we can induct EF in good steady numbers but with this big deal Trump won't be happy let's see how its pans out decision is made to induct new platform will see what comes out I am certain PAF will procure something other than blk 3 to deal Rafale an American package with less strings or EF in small numbers to replace Mirages gradually.

 

[Tipu7]

F-16 has its own triage of problems, but its a formidable platform for strike missions, i didn't mention specialized squadrons to induct F-16 as Mirage replacement. Any new aircraft that replaces Mirage has to go through a lot of enhancements to carry Chinese weapons. EFT maybe expensive, but its a direct rival to Rafale. The induction of Chinese weaponry could be an issue, for that J-10 or J-31 seem probable, though EFT could bring a different weapon package of its own.

EFT also seems a suitable replacement for F-16 in coming decades, unless some 5th gen replaces F-16.

By the way @Signalian, what are you doing on a Air Force thread? Weren't you an Army guy?
Diversifying interests?

 

[mingle]

By the way @Signalian, what are you doing on a Air Force thread? Weren't you an Army guy?
Diversifying interests?

@Tipu7 what Ur take Mirages replacement??? How eygpt is on shopping spree even theior economy not permit them big tickets item now they buying Italian EF and ships worth 9 billion before French shopping spree and Russian what's going on how we can learn from them????

 

[Zephyrus]

I think the last major upgrade to Mirage fleet was ROSE till 2003, its been almost 15+ years now. Due to older frames and cannibalization of aircraft for spares, it doesn't make sense to keep upgrading the aircraft. Minor changes like IFR probes are acceptable. PAF is not tilting towards J-10 also, EFT cannot be had in large numbers if its even possible to form the line up. JFT is replacing F-7 P, so Mirages still have a decade or two to go until some replacement is found.

A major infrastructure of PAF Mirages is placed at a AFB Rafiqui, Shorkot and then AFB Masroor. So the replacement aircraft will be placed at these bases. Due to nature of specialized roles of 25th and 27th squadrons, modern strike aircraft are required. 15th Sqd is also Tactical Attack, while 7th Sqd is mix of strike and air superiority, so definitely 4 x Sqds worth of a modern jet are required. Ra'ad Capable aircraft could be Chinese or French. Rafale is out of equation, Mirage-2000 option may not be exercised. EFT or SU-35 or any other which comes close to specs, otherwise wait for induction of stealth aircraft to take over strike role.

Hi, IFRs weren't a minor change, they required drastic study and redesign, as per older sources the mirage 3/5 lacked the ability to be air refueled, it was something that the OEM considered near to impossible.

 

[StormBreaker]

By the way @Signalian, what are you doing on a Air Force thread? Weren't you an Army guy?
Diversifying interests?

That’s a rare but quite an honorable situation i must say. The last convo he had with me on an AirForce thread was quite qood and informative.

 

[Zephyrus]

Something tells me that there would be a specialist variant of the JF17 for ground attack role, that's the only possible solution for our mirage woes, the fact that the thunder lacks adequate ground clearance for the attachment of Ra'ad can be remedied by minor changes in the design of the Ra'ad.
Or strengthening the wings of the thunder to carry Ra'ad on hardpoints 2 and 6.

 

[Signalian]

By the way @Signalian, what are you doing on a Air Force thread? Weren't you an Army guy?
Diversifying interests?

Somebody threw me into avionics and related systems, so my department has changed to aeronautical systems now.

That’s a rare but quite an honorable situation i must say. The last convo he had with me on an AirForce thread was quite qood and informative.

haan i learnt a thing or two in past few months.

 

[aliyusuf]

Somebody threw me into avionics and related systems, so my department has changed to aeronautical systems now.

So can someone do such a thing without your willingness or approval?

 

[Tipu7]

Somebody threw me into avionics and related systems, so my department has changed to aeronautical systems now

Looks like some one will throw you in sea too. It's natural to move from Army to Air Force to Navy.
Kindly do some postmortem of Indian Army ORBAT.

@Tipu7 what Ur take Mirages replacement??? How eygpt is on shopping spree even theior economy not permit them big tickets item now they buying Italian EF and ships worth 9 billion before French shopping spree and Russian what's going on how we can learn from them????

The defense build up depends upon two primary factors.
1: Threat environment
2: Economic sources
Egypt is currently facing multiple threats from multiple front. It is involved in low intensity conflict with AQ/ISIS affiliated militia in Sinai desert. It has border issues with Sudan. Got historic rivalry with Israel. Got a war torn country as neighbor in shape of Libya and is now facing clash with Turkey over domination in Mediterranean sea.

Such multitude of threats demands robust force build up, and that too in diverse dimensions. That's why Egypt is desperately spending upon defense despite of poor economic support.

Pakistan case is much dilute now in comparison with Egypt.

 

[War Historian]

Egypt also enjoying saudi royalty for free military shopping across the world, for their unconditional support to the saudi monarchy on their ambitions from Yemen to iraq all over the middle East

Looks like some one will throw you in sea too. It's natural to move from Army to Air Force to Navy.
Kindly do some postmortem of Indian Army ORBAT.


The defense build up depends upon two primary factors.
1: Threat environment
2: Economic sources
Egypt is currently facing multiple threats from multiple front. It is involved in low intensity conflict with AQ/ISIS affiliated militia in Sinai desert. It has border issues with Sudan. Got historic rivalry with Israel. Got a war torn country as neighbor in shape of Libya and is now facing clash with Turkey over domination in Mediterranean sea.

Such multitude of threats demands robust force build up, and that too in diverse dimensions. That's why Egypt is desperately spending upon defense despite of poor economic support.

Pakistan case is much dilute now in comparison with Egypt.