Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[araz]

If other fighter ideas fail to materialize (e.g Su-35) or are too limited in available munitions (e.g. F-16s without JASSM, HARM, JSOW, etc), the PAF might try developing an enlarged JF-17. If there were a need for a Block-4, this would be it.

On what basis do you venture this opinion. Just interested in knowing why you are thinking along those lines. Response would be appreciated. Would this be ala Block 52 from Block 15?

 

[fatman17]

If other fighter ideas fail to materialize (e.g Su-35) or are too limited in available munitions (e.g. F-16s without JASSM, HARM, JSOW, etc), the PAF might try developing an enlarged JF-17. If there were a need for a Block-4, this would be it.

Pakistan should seriously evaluate the J11D from China as a alternate to the SU35. They should consider replacing the Chinese power plant with a Russian engine.

 

[fatman17]

J11D with the AL31F engine

 

[Cool_Soldier]

J11D is really good platform specially for Pakistan Navy if affordable for us.We must try to get at least one Squadron of these to tackle with Mig 29 UB.

 

[TaimiKhan]

J11D with the AL31F engine

Sir ji, thats a Chinese engine. AL-31F has different nozzle. This one has the WS-10 engine.

 

[fatman17]

Sir ji, thats a Chinese engine. AL-31F has different nozzle. This one has the WS-10 engine.

yes I know. that's my point replace WS10 with AL31F.

 

[TaimiKhan]

yes I know. that's my point replace WS10 with AL31F.

Provided Russia agrees to that

Since Russian warplane sales are drying up or not as much as they would have liked, as India is now also going western way, i think Russia would be more interested in finding new customers for its planes. If they allow engines for Chinese jets, they loose their opportunity for sale, provided they do really wanna sell us something.

 

[fatman17]

Provided Russia agrees to that

Since Russian warplane sales are drying up or not as much as they would have liked, as India is now also going western way, i think Russia would be more interested in finding new customers for its planes. If they allow engines for Chinese jets, they loose their opportunity for sale, provided they do really wanna sell us something.

I don't think they will object to selling engines to Pakistan as precedent already established with RD93.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I don't think they will object to selling engines to Pakistan as precedent already established with RD93.

May be with J-10 they don't object, but who knows whats their stance if its a J-11.

 

[fatman17]

A further improved variant of J-11B in the same class of American F/A-18E has been under development at 601/SAC as J-11D. Compared to J-11B, it features a new AESA radar and a digital FBW system which are similar to those of J-16. J-11D can also carry new generation of AAMs including PL-10 and PL-15. Two extra hardpoints were added to the inner wings. As the result up to 12 AAMs can be carried. More composite material was used in its wing and tail sections in order to reduce weight. It might also have a RAM coating to reduce the RCS but this has not been confirmed. The AESA radar was speculated to have been developed by the 14th Institute and was tested onboard a J-11B radar testbed in 2014. The first J-11D prototype (D1101) took off successfully from the SAC airfield on April 29, 2015, powered by two WS-10A engines. The new J-15 style IRST/LR appears to have been offset to the starboard side of the windshield, suggesting an IFR probe was installed on the port side, an arrangement similar to that of J-15. There was a rumor that the engines could be the upgraded WS-10 with a max thrust of 14t but this has yet to be confirmed. It is expected the earlier J-11Bs could be upgraded to the D standard (mainly the AESA radar due to different structural designs) in the future.
- Last Updated 9/21/15

May be with J-10 they don't object, but who knows whats their stance if its a J-11.

very surprised if they don't.

 

[Donatello]

May be with J-10 they don't object, but who knows whats their stance if its a J-11.

China has been going crazy with the flanker series, so they are developing the homegrown engines......sooner than later they will be available.

 

[Imran Khan]

China has been going crazy with the flanker series, so they are developing the homegrown engines......sooner than later they will be available.

but question is at that time we need it ? j-10 is good example

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Quwa]

On what basis do you venture this opinion. Just interested in knowing why you are thinking along those lines. Response would be appreciated. Would this be ala Block 52 from Block 15?

I think it'd be part necessity, part feasibility and part necessity on the part of the PAF. While the sudden influx of surplus F-16C/Ds (with LESP and CCIP-like upgrades) can affordably and effectively meet the medium weight multirole fighter needs of the PAF, it seems the PAF itself is being a bit conservative with its approach to the U.S. While such F-16s would make great air defence assets, their strike capabilities wouldn't be at their maximum potential unless U.S releases JASSM, JSOW, etc. On the other hand, PAF can equip the JF-17 at will, but the maximum desired effect in any one engagement may not come about due to the JF-17's limited range and payload. Importing something like J-10B or J-31 may be too cost prohibitive if done in heavy numbets (suitable for a backbone fleet in the future).

5-7 years from now the PAF can take one of two options. It could pair up with an external vendor and develop an entirely new successor to the JF-17 and ensure, from the ground up, that this next gen fighter improves upon the JF-17 in every relevant respect. Or it can take what it has on JF-17 and develop a larger and lighter weight fighter capable of comfortably carrying more without greatly degrading performance. The 'JF-17 II' could be the next backbone fighter, but it'll depend on what route PAF takes. Personally, I'd rather they design a new jet from scratch

 

[araz]

I think it'd be part necessity, part feasibility and part necessity on the part of the PAF. While the sudden influx of surplus F-16C/Ds (with LESP and CCIP-like upgrades) can affordably and effectively meet the medium weight multirole fighter needs of the PAF, it seems the PAF itself is being a bit conservative with its approach to the U.S. While such F-16s would make great air defence assets, their strike capabilities wouldn't be at their maximum potential unless U.S releases JASSM, JSOW, etc. On the other hand, PAF can equip the JF-17 at will, but the maximum desired effect in any one engagement may not come about due to the JF-17's limited range and payload. Importing something like J-10B or J-31 may be too cost prohibitive if done in heavy numbets (suitable for a backbone fleet in the future).

5-7 years from now the PAF can take one of two options. It could pair up with an external vendor and develop an entirely new successor to the JF-17 and ensure, from the ground up, that this next gen fighter improves upon the JF-17 in every relevant respect. Or it can take what it has on JF-17 and develop a larger and lighter weight fighter capable of comfortably carrying more without greatly degrading performance. The 'JF-17 II' could be the next backbone fighter, but it'll depend on what route PAF takes. Personally, I'd rather they design a new jet from scratch

Hi.
Thank you for your response. You are talking about 5-7 years from now. That will take us into 2020-22. I am assuming that the Bl. 3 would have reached its design brief and about to be jnducted in 2018-19. We have recently seen the influence of LRAAMs on our thinking from some bits of news that have come out just today. Now to me this is the game changer rather than the JFT. Extending my thought process I would thin that rather than having longer range fighters one would need longer ranged armaments and a stronger radar with engine modifications or failing that guidance from a secondary source. For me the cost effective option is a stronger engine higher strength/ranged AESA radar coupled with LRAAMs. It would save up on the cost of redesigning a platform when it works well and our capability for redesigning is rudimentary if at best. So in my humble opinion JFT would not have too many design modifications but will progressively work towards a longer ranged radar a higher thrust engine of similar size to maintain the radarand longer ranged weapons. As capabilities increase you may find that we might not need as many platforms as now so higher numbers maynot be maintained and technology as it becomes more complicated will also become very expensive. In those circumstances we will need to makntain our fleet in an economical manner. Lastly 2020-22 is the time we would want to take a jump on the next generation platforms so redesigning what would eventually be a 4th generation platform when we do not have experience of the next generation will not be such a good idea.
We are only just bouncing ideas so feel free to present your point of view and we can discuss further.
Regards
A