Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[denel]

PAF is hopeful (though a false hope IMO) for replacements, the reason why you dont see any further upgrades. the will only keep a squardons two-three for strategic/nuclear role with raad which doesnt need upgardes

India experimented With jaguars to come to same conclusion ..its not worth it...

But i m just an amateur, i might be wrong

Again it depends where the timeframes are; as i said in other threads, there is a failure in long term vision and no plan B.

 

[HawkEye27]

50 Years of Mirage - Montage

 

[FuturePAF]

PAF is hopeful (though a false hope IMO) for replacements, the reason why you dont see any further upgrades. the will only keep a squardons two-three for strategic/nuclear role with raad which doesnt need upgardes

India experimented With jaguars to come to same conclusion ..its not worth it...

But i m just an amateur, i might be wrong

Unless if parts from the JF-17 Block I and II could be modified and placed in the Mirages to allow them to solider until we can afford to the mirages. This is if the Block I and II get an AESA upgrade, and we work with Denel to put in the minimum needed structural improvements for the most outcome. The Egyptian Horus mirages point to a desire by the PAF to reach at least the Horus level of capability; such as Night vision for day/night capability if it wasn't present already.

The PAF can keep most upgrades podded for quick integration, upgrades and to minimize costs, but keeping the 6 squadrons going will require a continuation of structural overhauls and replacement parts. Might as well upgrade some parts and structures while we are at it, such as replace some parts with new composite parts. This will decrease the need to find as many spare parts, and seems like a worthwhile project until Block III production starts.

Additional a new Radar will allow us to integrate new weapons without Grifo (Italy) notify its allies, and the information getting back to India. New long range stealthier cruise missiles, glide bombs, and fighter launched drones coudl be compromised if they have to be integrated on the Grifo Radar, while the KLJ-7 being a Chinese radar goes without saying.

 

[ziaulislam]

Unless if parts from the JF-17 Block I and II could be modified and placed in the Mirages to allow them to solider until we can afford to the mirages. This is if the Block I and II get an AESA upgrade, and we work with Denel to put in the minimum needed structural improvements for the most outcome. The Egyptian Horus mirages point to a desire by the PAF to reach at least the Horus level of capability; such as Night vision for day/night capability if it wasn't present already.

The PAF can keep most upgrades podded for quick integration, upgrades and to minimize costs, but keeping the 6 squadrons going will require a continuation of structural overhauls and replacement parts. Might as well upgrade some parts and structures while we are at it, such as replace some parts with new composite parts. This will decrease the need to find as many spare parts, and seems like a worthwhile project until Block III production starts.

Additional a new Radar will allow us to integrate new weapons without Grifo (Italy) notify its allies, and the information getting back to India. New long range stealthier cruise missiles, glide bombs, and fighter launched drones coudl be compromised if they have to be integrated on the Grifo Radar, while the KLJ-7 being a Chinese radar goes without saying.

PAF mirages were already night cable through ROSE ..
the horus ones have better radar and self protection capablities..
i think they are merely for spares...

PAF has 19 squadrons
by 2022 PAF will get around 260(183+76) 4th gen fighters in 10(jf17)+5(f16) squadrons..

the rest 4 squadrons will probably remains mirages3/5 for strategic & CS role..if it finds more f16s it can trim this further to just 2 squadrons, but even though PAF is very hopefull i am not..as there is very strong lobbying in congress against it

 

[CHI RULES]

PAF mirages were already night cable through ROSE ..
the horus ones have better radar and self protection capablities..
i think they are merely for spares...

PAF has 19 squadrons
by 2022 PAF will get around 260(183+76) 4th gen fighters in 10(jf17)+5(f16) squadrons..

the rest 4 squadrons will probably remains mirages3/5 for strategic & CS role..if it finds more f16s it can trim this further to just 2 squadrons, but even though PAF is very hopefull i am not..as there is very strong lobbying in congress against it

Horus coming to Pakistan are 30+ and it is stated that some of them shall be integrated may be a squadron either new one or may replace jets of existing one. Interesting feature of Horus is their relatively modern radar and other capabilities already stated which are surely better than Rose upgrade. All Horus shall not be used for spares. Even the Horus which shall be used as spares shall be beneficial to further upgrade the Mirage Rose. The Horus can be armed with BVR missile also so Pak may have option arm at least 36 Mirages with BVR Missiles duly supported by their Radars assuming that if 18 Horus inducted directly than remaining 18 Radars and EW/ECM gadgets shall be used to further upgrade one existing Mirage squadron resultantly we may have real 4th gen two squadrons armed which can be armed with BVR missiles along with A2G weaponry.

 

[denel]

Horus coming to Pakistan are 30+ and it is stated that some of them shall be integrated may be a squadron either new one or may replace jets of existing one. Interesting feature of Horus is their relatively modern radar and other capabilities already stated which are surely better than Rose upgrade. All Horus shall not be used for spares. Even the Horus which shall be used as spares shall be beneficial to further upgrade the Mirage Rose. The Horus can be armed with BVR missile also so Pak may have option arm at least 36 Mirages with BVR Missiles duly supported by their Radars assuming that if 18 Horus inducted directly than remaining 18 Radars and EW/ECM gadgets shall be used to further upgrade one existing Mirage squadron resultantly we may have real 4th gen two squadrons armed which can be armed with BVR missiles along with A2G weaponry.

Remember, you are looking at around 2 years turn around time before these aircraft show up on service; they will need to be overhauled.
For BVRs - when present Roses were not done, what makes Horus feasible? Not sure what you will put there for that as there is nothing integrated; something that needs to be done from scratch - i doubt EAF was having any BVRs there either.

 

[CHI RULES]

Remember, you are looking at around 2 years turn around time before these aircraft show up on service; they will need to be overhauled.

Sir I have stated what info is available in media, it is up to professionals like you to estimate time span of their inclusion, however in my humble opinion PAF must have already evaluated them and due to serious circumstance there are chances that after some minor overhauls a squadron can be made available in next six months. Some where I have read that in some capabilities the Horus matches the Mirage 2000. Please share in light of your experience the capabilities of Horus.

 

[denel]

Sir I have stated what info is available in media, it is up to professionals like you to estimate time span of their inclusion, however in my humble opinion PAF must have already evaluated them and due to serious circumstance there are chances that after some minor overhauls a squadron can be made available in next six months. Some where I have read that in some capabilities the Horus matches the Mirage 2000. Please share in light of your experience the capabilities of Horus.

Unfortunately, i dont have much exposure on M2k or RC400 to comment.

Knowing how EA keeps their birds, it is better to get them to a full overhaul.

 

[CHI RULES]

Unfortunately, i dont have much exposure on M2k or RC400 to comment.

Knowing how EA keeps their birds, it is better to get them to a full overhaul.

Considering past news about EA your point is quite valid yet there shall be some airworthy plat forms so PAF is trying to get them early. May be you can collect some info regarding Horus capabilities and can comment later on as with your expertise you may analyse something new from available data.

 

[denel]

Considering past news about EA your point is quite valid yet there shall be some airworthy plat forms so PAF is trying to get them early. May be you can collect some info regarding Horus capabilities and can comment later on as with your expertise you may analyse something new from available data.

Sure, it depends on what these birds will be dedicated to e.g. deep strike mission, then bvrs have no point - that is not the mission for these birds; but one expects atlas's IFR, various integration points for delivering H2/H4, communication upgrade including H4 link etc. There is a lot of work required to make it up to standard.

 

[nomi007]

Any idea when 1st Horus will reach Pakistan

 

[Path-Finder]

Sure, it depends on what these birds will be dedicated to e.g. deep strike mission, then bvrs have no point - that is not the mission for these birds; but one expects atlas's IFR, various integration points for delivering H2/H4, communication upgrade including H4 link etc. There is a lot of work required to make it up to standard.

There might be H6(Raptor 3) on the Horizon too!

 

[denel]

There might be H6(Raptor 3) on the Horizon too!

true, but links remain the same.

 

[Quwa]

One idea the PAF can look at is rebuild the Mirages by zero-houring the airframe and engine. That way, it can fly for many years. No need to worry about the expensive electronics or digital flight control system, there's JF-17 for multi-role. Just maintain 3 Mirage squadrons as dedicated strategic/nuclear deployment assets, and downstream all conventional strike (SOW, conventional ALCM, etc) to the JF-17.

 

[Dazzler]