Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Foxtrot Delta]

The Americans are offering or were offering F-21 (rebranded) F-16 to india to be locally produced inside india.
if pakistan had money or an intention we could easily move F-21 manufacturing into pakistan. they need the money and it seems they have said Good bye to its production lines if we someone is willing to pay..

but then again money is a probelm. so i guess keeping what we already have for next 5-7 years flying with used parts for mirage III aircraft seems the only option. along with making loads of cruise missiles and other types of missiles which can hit high value targets like, Sam sites, runways and factories..

perhaps if me manage pakistan's economy in next 7 years we could look at chinese replacement for JH-7 aircraft or look at replacements for Su-30 aircraft all around the world. if we have money by then we could even co-develop a tactical bomber with china or turkey.

till then it seems mirages are here to stay. and instead of loosing good pilots for bombing runs if war breaks out i would prefer drones and missiles to be first choice of battle.

throwing men at them is very expensive. throw missiles first.

 

[Signalian]

https://sputniknews.com/military/20...ter-jets-from-egypt-amid-build-up-with-india/

Pakistan to Buy 36 Mirage V Fighter Jets from Egypt Amid Build-Up With India

New Delhi (Sputnik): The Mirage V in question possesses a helmet-mounted display, mission pods, and night strike capability. Sources said Pakistan would upgrade these jets before putting a few of them into operation.

Pakistan's Air Force is expected to seal a contract with Egypt to purchase upgraded Dassault Mirage-V combat aircraft. The two countries have been negotiating the contract for years and now the final contract may see the light of day because the Pakistan Air Force wanted these fighter jets to strengthen its existing squadron of jets.

"Negotiations to purchase 36 such aircraft almost reached the final stage", one of the person familiar with the negotiations said. These jets were retired from service by the Egyptian Air Force long ago, so Pakistan will have tp refurbish them before pressing the aircraft into service.

The Mirage V in question possesses a helmet-mounted display, mission pods, and night strike capability. Sources said Pakistan would upgrade these jets before putting a few of them into operation, like in the past when it has upgraded dozens of Mirage-III/Vs with Italian radars and other electronics at the Mirage Rebuild Factory, established by the Pakistani Air Force in 1978.

Pakistan's Air Force has been operating Mirage combat jets for the last five decades and despite the induction of the JF-17, the force planned to put on hold the retirement of the Mirage in the absence of better weaponry. Over the past five decades, Pakistan has purchased nearly 150 Mirage III/V fighters. The force had in the past also bought retired Mirage-III from Australia.

The Mirage V is a dedicated ground-attack variant of the Mirage III, with greater space for fuel, in place of avionics. The Dassault-made Mirage jet received major attention earlier in February when the Indian Air Force carried out an aerial strike using the Mirage 2000 fighter jet to destroy alleged terror infrastructure in Balakot inside Pakistan. Nevertheless, the only common feature of the Mirage V and the Indian Air Force's Mirage 2000 is their "delta wing" design.

The relationship between the two nuclear-armed countries once again nosedived in August after New Delhi decided to revoke the special status granted to the disputed Kashmir region. While India called the decision an "internal affair", Pakistan has argued at several international fora including at United Nations that it is a violation of bilateral agreements and the Vienna Convention.

Pakistan's military has vowed to go to "any extent" to provide justice to the Kashmiripeople and it has deployed hundreds of elite commandos near the Line of Control - a de facto border that separates the Kashmir region between the two countries. The Pakistani Air Force also deployed its frontline jets at the forward air base Skardu near Ladakh last month to ward off any Balakot-like strike by India.

It is worth noting that Mirage-V was involved in ground strike in IOK, a 3rd generation aircraft facing multiple 3rd Gen, 4th Gen and so called 4.5 Gen aircraft of IAF. While IAF had sent 4th gen aircraft, " claimed non upgraded" Mirage 2000 to conduct strike, PAF sent in 3rd gen aircraft, non upgraded Mirage-V, as response inside Indian territory.

This prompted the Indian leadership to go run after a true 4.5 Gen aircraft, Rafale, because the so called 4.5 Gen aircraft SU-30 MKI was not enough to defend Indian skies. One has to wonder that if PAF is capable of using a 3rd gen aircraft with such tenacity that it strikes in Indian territory near a Brigade HQ and makes its way back successfully, then how would 4.5 gen aircraft fare in PAF's hands. If India is so hell bent on stopping purchase of a 3rd gen aircraft like Mirage-V for PAF, this is because of the fact that Mirage-V has proved itself in 2019, even being multiple decades old aircraft.

The arsenal creating "fear factor" in IAF ranks has grown instead of minimizing; F-16's are already there for which India runs around the globe to stop its sales to Pakistan, JF-17 is home-grown and the engine sales are guaranteed by China against which India cannot do much even when its one of the biggest clients of Russia and now the Mirage-V which was ticked away as "obsolete" and "old technology", has again created a headache.

Another under-rated aircraft, F-7P and PG version, is getting replaced by JFT. The same aircraft type is called flying coffin on the other side of the border. Had this aircraft also seen combat on that fateful day, it would have shown its mark also. F-7 has modern airframes than Mirages and even with old Mirage airframes, the Mirage has not turned into a flying coffin.

India and IAF admitted their defeat indirectly to a 3rd gen aircraft, Mirage-V, when the big words for Rafale were spoken, considering Rafale as a savior for next conflict. One would ask again, why wasn't Tejas mentioned instead of Rafale ? Come to think of it, Pakistan and PAF mention JFT proudly at every opportunity. JFT is considered to be the backbone and mainstay of PAF in coming years, Is Tejas considered the same ? No.

I wouldn't be surprised if PAF doesnt induct any new type of aircraft apart from new/old versions of F-16's and newer block of JF-17's, since PAF is moving towards in house production of Azm project.

 

[ice_man]

The Americans are offering or were offering F-21 (rebranded) F-16 to india to be locally produced inside india.
if pakistan had money or an intention we could easily move F-21 manufacturing into pakistan. they need the money and it seems they have said Good bye to its production lines if we someone is willing to pay..

but then again money is a probelm. so i guess keeping what we already have for next 5-7 years flying with used parts for mirage III aircraft seems the only option. along with making loads of cruise missiles and other types of missiles which can hit high value targets like, Sam sites, runways and factories..

perhaps if me manage pakistan's economy in next 7 years we could look at chinese replacement for JH-7 aircraft or look at replacements for Su-30 aircraft all around the world. if we have money by then we could even co-develop a tactical bomber with china or turkey.

till then it seems mirages are here to stay. and instead of loosing good pilots for bombing runs if war breaks out i would prefer drones and missiles to be first choice of battle.

throwing men at them is very expensive. throw missiles first.

Brother to cut it short. Even if you had the money and will to have a manufacturing plant for F16s.

USA would never let you manufacture it because of China paranoia. They would be worried china would get to know their secrets.

Hence for now be happy with old used Mirage IIIs and Mirage Vs.


What we can do is ask for used F16s from other nations like probably european nations. Just how we did with the Jordanian F16s.

 

[Tps43]

Onboard indian MKI.


@Tps43


No more smart - getting upto 60.

The ones in musaf kamra and masroor

 

[Path-Finder]

It is worth noting that Mirage-V was involved in ground strike in IOK, a 3rd generation aircraft facing multiple 3rd Gen, 4th Gen and so called 4.5 Gen aircraft of IAF. While IAF had sent 4th gen aircraft, " claimed non upgraded" Mirage 2000 to conduct strike, PAF sent in 3rd gen aircraft, non upgraded Mirage-V, as response inside Indian territory.

This prompted the Indian leadership to go run after a true 4.5 Gen aircraft, Rafale, because the so called 4.5 Gen aircraft SU-30 MKI was not enough to defend Indian skies. One has to wonder that if PAF is capable of using a 3rd gen aircraft with such tenacity that it strikes in Indian territory near a Brigade HQ and makes its way back successfully, then how would 4.5 gen aircraft fare in PAF's hands. If India is so hell bent on stopping purchase of a 3rd gen aircraft like Mirage-V for PAF, this is because of the fact that Mirage-V has proved itself in 2019, even being multiple decades old aircraft.

The arsenal creating "fear factor" in IAF ranks has grown instead of minimizing; F-16's are already there for which India runs around the globe to stop its sales to Pakistan, JF-17 is home-grown and the engine sales are guaranteed by China against which India cannot do much even when its one of the biggest clients of Russia and now the Mirage-V which was ticked away as "obsolete" and "old technology", has again created a headache.

Another under-rated aircraft, F-7P and PG version, is getting replaced by JFT. The same aircraft type is called flying coffin on the other side of the border. Had this aircraft also seen combat on that fateful day, it would have shown its mark also. F-7 has modern airframes than Mirages and even with old Mirage airframes, the Mirage has not turned into a flying coffin.

India and IAF admitted their defeat indirectly to a 3rd gen aircraft, Mirage-V, when the big words for Rafale were spoken, considering Rafale as a savior for next conflict. One would ask again, why wasn't Tejas mentioned instead of Rafale ? Come to think of it, Pakistan and PAF mention JFT proudly at every opportunity. JFT is considered to be the backbone and mainstay of PAF in coming years, Is Tejas considered the same ? No.

I wouldn't be surprised if PAF doesnt induct any new type of aircraft apart from new/old versions of F-16's and newer block of JF-17's, since PAF is moving towards in house production of Azm project.

I hope it doesn't irritate the JH7 party, no pun intended or offence meant.

I think Mirage will be around a lot longer because its utility is not surpassed yet. The paranoia coupled with the propaganda by indians is now muted very well.

 

[HRK]

I think Mirage will be around a lot longer because its utility is not surpassed yet. The paranoia coupled with the propaganda by indians is now muted very well.

the thing which people need to remember that our Mirage fleet is undergoing for another complete overhaul since last year (source links: 1, 2) which will make Mirage jets to perform duties for at least 7-8 more years, so all those Mirage jet which will receive the last overhaul this time will remain active with PAF till 2027-2028

 

[khanasifm]

Complete overhaul last 11-18?years depending on number of hours flown per year paf came up with mini overhaul for half the time and cost of course OEM helped per paf latest history book

 

[HRK]

Complete overhaul last 11-18?years depending on number of hours flown per year paf came up with mini overhaul for half the time and cost of course OEM helped per paf latest history book

12 years on average but as this will be the fifth major overhaul which mean after this overhaul number of available flying hours will be less than the previous major overhaul, secondly we are manufacturing 50 JF-17 in 3 years time (on average 16 per year) so in 6 years we would have +100 JF-17 (blk-3 and possibly blk-4) which should be enough to replace the Mirage fleet ....

 

[CHI RULES]

12 years on average but as this will be the fifth major overhaul which mean after this overhaul number of available flying hours will be less than the previous major overhaul, secondly we are manufacturing 50 JF-17 in 3 years time (on average 16 per year) so in 6 years we would have +100 JF-17 (blk-3 and possibly blk-4) which should be enough to replace the Mirage fleet ....

Sir, don't you think that even JF17 block 3 may not match the endurance and payload of Mirages, so it shall be better to get any heavy next gen jet for deep penetration missions even before realization of Project Azm.

 

[HRK]

Sir, don't you think that even JF17 block 3 may not match the endurance and payload of Mirages,

just compare the specifications of Mirage and JF-17 payload and endurance, you will have your answer

BTW JF-17 in anti-shipping role have more range than Mirage

so it shall be better to get any heavy next gen jet for deep penetration missions even before realization of Project Azm

Heavies will be a welcome a addition in PAF but First you need to explain how deep do you want to go in India ....???

secondary question Why fighter jet should be preferred over SOW and Cruise missiles to attack targets located deep enough in India .... ???

 

[CHI RULES]

just compare the specifications of Mirage and JF-17 payload and endurance, you will have your answer

BTW JF-17 in anti-shipping role have more range than Mirage

Heavies will be a welcome a addition in PAF but First you need to explain how deep do you want to go in India ....???

secondary question Why fighter jet should be preferred over SOW and Cruise missiles to attack targets located deep enough in India .... ???

Thank for your reply, however one should also keep in mind the Indian near future SAM acquisitions as they shall make it difficult for long range attacks to be effective enough to target a particular site. The 5 th gen jet suggested by me as it shall have better chance to penetrate the defenses and launch the missiles to target farther targets as well as can survive itself.

As for deep penetration we may have to attack certain Indian targets at 1500-2000KM.

 

[HRK]

The 5 th gen jet suggested by me as it shall have better chance to penetrate the defenses and launch the missiles to target farther targets as well as can survive itself

I have not made a comment about 5 gen in my post .....

As for deep penetration we may have to attack certain Indian targets at 1500-2000KM

for that range ballistic missiles will be used ....no fighter jet will go that deep in India

 

[Path-Finder]

this does not make any sense .....
View attachment 578331
Mirage Rebuilt Factory

here he is again! rafale on his badge.

 

[ziaulislam]

12 years on average but as this will be the fifth major overhaul which mean after this overhaul number of available flying hours will be less than the previous major overhaul, secondly we are manufacturing 50 JF-17 in 3 years time (on average 16 per year) so in 6 years we would have +100 JF-17 (blk-3 and possibly blk-4) which should be enough to replace the Mirage fleet ....

Assuming thag does happen
Seems rate is slower for block 3 per some people posts and their is some latency for block 3

 

[HRK]

here he is again! rafale on his badge.

someone should post these pics on Indian forums in such a suggestive manner that he is one of the engineers trained for Qatari air force and than enjoy the show .....

Assuming thag does happen
Seems rate is slower for block 3 per some people posts and their is some latency for block 3

just listen the latest program of Public news on JF-17, some Blk-III air frame are under production same was reported earlier as well in a Interview of I think Chief Designer ....