Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Jammer]

You do understand that Denel has been a professional in this industry and worked on Pak Mirages? Should we take his word for it, or yours?

Arrogance is something that breaks down everything. It breaks down communication and it stops innovation and problem solving.

At the end of the the day we should all take a break and get a life is my suggestion.You and many others are not and never will be aware of what is cooking.

 

[Armchair]

At the end of the the day we should all take a break and get a life is my suggestion.You and many others are not and never will be aware of what is cooking.

Logic would suggest you, the all knowing anonymous person that you are, would not be wasting your time writing one liners to us lowly folks here. And continue the great and very important work that you do all day. Don't you think? Or are you just incompetent at putting across ideas and too big a snob not talk down to others?

Between, I can tell that you are from the PAF. That signature snobbery is quite common there.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Remanufacturing mirages will not require any licencing fees for Dessault as it is "re" manufacturing aircraft that are already possessed by Pak. There is no question of royalties. SA went down this route and I think @denel can testify to this.

Steel (and more importantly aluminum, titanium, and various other metals will be needed. Acquiring these are the easy part. Getting the jigs for the major structural parts are the other issue, and again, these are available from a host of countries (South Africa and possibly other countries such as Belgium, France, Switzerland, Israel).

There is no major barrier to this, just the will to go through with it.

Let us keep the issue simple - not get sidelined with history and M2K and all kinds of other topics.

We have some Mirages. They are some of the simplest desgined fighters in the last 50 years. We are going to remanufacture them. 100 copies. That's it. Just get the project going.

French rights and contracts are very strict so I do not know if we could have gone on our own and re manufactured

 

[Armchair]

French rights and contracts are very strict so I do not know if we could have gone on our own and re manufactured

Denel does not think it is a problem, and he is the person with the highest subject matter expertise among us in this subject. One could simply call it a deep overhaul if we so wished.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Denel does not think it is a problem, and he is the person with the highest subject matter expertise among us in this subject. One could simply call it a deep overhaul if we so wished.

I visited the rebuild factory as an educational visit in 80s so we had or rather have one.
Their is an interesting real story about the replacement of but cannot share. The rights and contract was tough.

 

[Armchair]

I visited the rebuild factory as an educational visit in 80s so we had or rather have one.
Their is an interesting real story about the replacement of but cannot share. The rights and contract was tough.

I too have visited the factory in the 1990s. A lot of things can be done and has been done. Many French missiles were copied by us wholesale and the French once, looking at one of the copies couldn't tell the difference from their own. The Mirages can be remanufactured, there is no problem other than will / cost. I guarantee you that bit.

 

[Sine Nomine]

If not the Mirages, then we're basically talking about using Project Azm to take up the strategic strike role. In his most recent interview with IHS Jane's (May 2019), the PAF CAS said that they want a twin-engine design for Azm.

We should always keep in view that almost 3 years and not even offical CGI of Project had been made public.
I am bit skeptical about it now.

 

[Armchair]

We should always keep in view that almost 3 years and not even offical CGI of Project had been made public.
I am bit skeptical about it now.

By now there should have been a prototype. But seems they are playing computer games and ..... off.

 

[MIRauf]

Why don't Pakistan just simply Modify the RAAD to something akin to Tomahawk with folding fins etc ? Should give you enough ground clearance on inner wing pylons on JF-17.

 

[denel]

I too have visited the factory in the 1990s. A lot of things can be done and has been done. Many French missiles were copied by us wholesale and the French once, looking at one of the copies couldn't tell the difference from their own. The Mirages can be remanufactured, there is no problem other than will / cost. I guarantee you that bit.

There is no licence cost to the french. You are building your own airframe; they are out of the market for 35 years on this;

 

[Deltadart]

I usually do not reply to stupid info on this forum but this took the cake. let me spell it out for you and others, what ever you have arrived at or concluded to has been tried and tested on both sides, trust me.

Please learn some manners first. Thank you.

 

[denel]

French rights and contracts are very strict so I do not know if we could have gone on our own and re manufactured

Nope. You can take middle finger and point it like a french baguet at them. There are time limit expirations; if the French have a problem they can take Isreal to court over the blueprint copy of Nesher first.

There is a difference between remanufacturing and manufacturing. There is no licence implications what so ever.

 

[The Deterrent]

Considering Ra'ad-I/II, simultaneous increase in range and reduction in payload is not possible, so the size/weight of the high-yield strategic weapons will remain roughly the same. This is something that cannot be delegated to the JF-17s. Of course relatively smaller weapons can be developed and integrated with JF-17s, but the requirement of a platform capable of delivering ~1300kg weapons (stand-off or otherwise) will be there for a long while.

However I don't believe zero-hour airframes are needed for the desired role by PAF. If, around half of the current strength is cannibalized for spares, the other half (roughly 3 squadrons) can be kept airborne well into the 2030s as dedicated strategic bombers. Extensive overhauling/manufacturing new airframes would be unnecessary and a distraction from the JF-17/Azm programs.

I excuse for the following fanboy act, but IDEALLY, PAF can be a pretty strong force if the squadron numbers can turn out to be like this by 2030:
5x F-16s (Block 52+/MLU)
5x JF-17s (Block III)
5x JF-17s (Block II)
3x Mirage-5s (ROSE III)
2x J-31s (Project Azm)
1x CCS

 

[Deltadart]

I do not want to detract from the immediate discussion but whatever became of the Egyptian mirages we were supposed to get? Second, any chance we might get our hands on the Swiss mirages now that they are up for sale?

 

[Humble Analyst]

Nope. You can take middle finger and point it like a french baguet at them. There are time limit expirations; if the French have a problem they can take Isreal to court over the blueprint copy of Nesher first.

There is a difference between remanufacturing and manufacturing. There is no licence implications what so ever.

If France cannot supply parts then there is no problem. But if we are getting parts via a valid contract then it depends upon what is in the contract.