Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[MastanKhan]

I like what you are doing but sometimes you mix reality with fiction. This is a simple equation and it is about replacing the old F7 and Mirage squadrons with a combination of JF17 and F16s. We are almost done with the F7s except for a couple of PG squadrons. PAF gets our smartest and brightest, don’t second guess them like the idiot Ma$taan. This is about Grey Matter.

Hi,

Yeah---smartest and brightest---who let the awacs get destroyed on the tarmac even though they had info when the terrs were coming.

Smartest & brightest---who paid up front for aircraft that were going to be sanctioned---.

Smartest & brightest----who donated the money for the F16's to the flood relief instead of buying the aircraft---.

If these are you smartest & the brightest---Allah spare me the misery of seeing the dumb and stupid of the Paf---.

Seems like your ballz have shrunk---. Did the mods spank you or what---previously you used to name me directly---now you have chickened out & can't even name me properly---.

 

[ziaulislam]

I like what you are doing but sometimes you mix reality with fiction. This is a simple equation and it is about replacing the old F7 and Mirage squadrons with a combination of JF17 and F16s. We are almost done with the F7s except for a couple of PG squadrons. PAF gets our smartest and brightest, don’t second guess them like the idiot Ma$taan. This is about Grey Matter.

PAF is going to keep the mirages till 2030 at least that is pretty much clear
The f7s will go first

Paf is still shopping around for Spares and has complete rebuild setup

Airchief stated PAF wants 400AC..and there is no way it can get 400 jf17+ f16s by 2030..

Unless PAF does same thing with f16s as it did with mirages And USA allows it

 

[GriffinsRule]

PAF is going to keep the mirages till 2030 at least that is pretty much clear
The f7s will go first

Paf is still shopping around for Spares and has complete rebuild setup

Airchief stated PAF wants 400AC..and there is no way it can get 400 jf17+ f16s by 2030..

Unless PAF does same thing with f16s as it did with mirages And USA allows it

PAF could easily build 200 additional JF-17s in the next 11 years so that is not an issue. Might even be able to get an additional 20-30 F-16s within that time frame, so 400 fighters is very doable by 2030, excluding all Mirages and F-7s.
Whether it is a good idea is a different case. By then, the cutting edge will be gone for these two gets and we would be looking to acquire or build NGFA. By then, Mirages would be worth museum pieces at best and exorbitantly expensive to maintain.

 

[MystryMan]

PAF gets our smartest and brightest, don’t second guess them like the idiot Ma$taan. This is about Grey Matter.

Having an alternate view on any subject is a good thing. It maybe right or not or partially accurate but it sure broadens your horizon.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I like what you are doing but sometimes you mix reality with fiction. This is a simple equation and it is about replacing the old F7 and Mirage squadrons with a combination of JF17 and F16s. We are almost done with the F7s except for a couple of PG squadrons. PAF gets our smartest and brightest, don’t second guess them like the idiot Ma$taan. This is about Grey Matter.

I'm not second guessing the PAF. Rather, I'm trying to infer based on what we have available today.

For example, we've yet to see any hard evidence of the JF-17 deploying the Ra'ad ALCM. Every time we or anyone broaches the topic, the folks in the know basically tell us, 'well, the JF-17's SOW profile is conventional' or 'the JF-17 will get SOW, but not strategic' and then some paragraphs later, tell us, flatly, the Mirages are staying.

So, apparently, the PAF is keeping the Mirages for a while yet, and for now, it seems the Ra'ad is tied to the Mirage.

In that case, let's just shoot off ideas on how to get more out of those fighters. Yes, I was taking it a step further by saying we ought to keep them for as long as possible, but it wasn't a shot at the PAF. Rather, I thought it'd be worth studying because Pakistan can keep 100 launch platforms for strategic weapons (Ra'ad). If it's infeasible, cool, if it's doable, also cool. Is the PAF obliged to do anything about it? Nope, and that's cool.

Ultimately, anything we say here is independent of what the PAF's thinking or does. But interestingly, we've seen the PAF change course too -- they at one point didn't want LIFT trainers, now they do.

We've had folks here talk about LIFT for a long time, and for some time they were spouting fiction, and now today, they're discussing a possibility. So, you never know. I mean, honestly, how many of us in 2015-2016 thought the PAF would pursue its own FGFA under Project Azm?

 

[fatman17]

I'm not second guessing the PAF. Rather, I'm trying to infer based on what we have available today.

For example, we've yet to see any hard evidence of the JF-17 deploying the Ra'ad ALCM. Every time we or anyone broaches the topic, the folks in the know basically tell us, 'well, the JF-17's SOW profile is conventional' or 'the JF-17 will get SOW, but not strategic' and then some paragraphs later, tell us, flatly, the Mirages are staying.

So, apparently, the PAF is keeping the Mirages for a while yet, and for now, it seems the Ra'ad is tied to the Mirage.

In that case, let's just shoot off ideas on how to get more out of those fighters. Yes, I was taking it a step further by saying we ought to keep them for as long as possible, but it wasn't a shot at the PAF. Rather, I thought it'd be worth studying because Pakistan can keep 100 launch platforms for strategic weapons (Ra'ad). If it's infeasible, cool, if it's doable, also cool. Is the PAF obliged to do anything about it? Nope, and that's cool.

Ultimately, anything we say here is independent of what the PAF's thinking or does. But interestingly, we've seen the PAF change course too -- they at one point didn't want LIFT trainers, now they do.

We've had folks here talk about LIFT for a long time, and for some time they were spouting fiction, and now today, they're discussing a possibility. So, you never know. I mean, honestly, how many of us in 2015-2016 thought the PAF would pursue its own FGFA under Project Azm?

JFT role is anti ship interdiction. It can carry up to 2 C-802AK AShMs for anti-ship missions. For high value fixed targets, up to 2 CM-400AKGstandoff supersonic ASMs can be carried.

Mirage is dedicated for land targets. Maybe in the near future the JFT also undertakes land missions with the ALCMs.

 

[araz]

JFT role is anti ship interdiction. It can carry up to 2 C-802AK AShMs for anti-ship missions. For high value fixed targets, up to 2 CM-400AKGstandoff supersonic ASMs can be carried.

Mirage is dedicated for land targets. Maybe in the near future the JFT also undertakes land missions with the ALCMs.

Sir
With a weight of 1100Kg (if Wikipedia is to be believed) it will be at the higher end of weight load of a wing pylon. The Central pylon will create issues with clearance. So unless the Block 3 comes with further wing strengthening Raad in its current iteration may be too heavy for the JFT. BUT then PAF keeps fiddling around so you never know what they might come up with.
A

 

[Armchair]

Imagine the capability that 100 Mirages, armed with heavy standoff weapons brings. And even if JFTs ore F-16s could do this job, you would have to sacrifice that JFT or F-16 from more precious duties.

And the cost? The valuation of diverting an F-16 for such a task is about 100 million USD
And for the Mirages? its pennies to the dollar. You can get the job done at 1/50th of the price.

And here we are discussing platitudes about how or what will become obsolete xx years from now...

 

[ziaulislam]

PAF could easily build 200 additional JF-17s in the next 11 years so that is not an issue. Might even be able to get an additional 20-30 F-16s within that time frame, so 400 fighters is very doable by 2030, excluding all Mirages and F-7s.
Whether it is a good idea is a different case. By then, the cutting edge will be gone for these two gets and we would be looking to acquire or build NGFA. By then, Mirages would be worth museum pieces at best and exorbitantly expensive to maintain.

Well it took 10 years to just build 100, even at 16/year will take 2030 to get to 250 mark with even 100 f16s we will be at 350 mark in 2030..room for 3 mirage squardons ..so ATLEAST mirages are to stay till 2030..

Sir
With a weight of 1100Kg (if Wikipedia is to be believed) it will be at the higher end of weight load of a wing pylon. The Central pylon will create issues with clearance. So unless the Block 3 comes with further wing strengthening Raad in its current iteration may be too heavy for the JFT. BUT then PAF keeps fiddling around so you never know what they might come up with.
A

The raad will probably be retired once mirages go & i doubt it is conventional SOW..seems purely a nuke option

Jf17 has its own SOW in works we know about REK and we suspect one other undisclosed one already in final testing (post 27feb)..

 

[Deltadart]

I definitely think the avionics have advanced many folds since the ROSE upgrade. Thus an avionics upgrade is way over due.
It wouldn't hurt to give them a new camouflage as well.

 

[Code_Geass]

A bit off topic anyone want to have a guess how mamy jf 17 paf will build for themselves around 250???

 

[MastanKhan]

I definitely think the avionics have advanced many folds since the ROSE upgrade. Thus an avionics upgrade is way over due.
It wouldn't hurt to give them a new camouflage as well.

Hi,

I think it started with Rose 1 and then to Rose 2 upgrade---.

 

[ziaulislam]

A bit off topic anyone want to have a guess how mamy jf 17 paf will build for themselves around 250???

So far the confirm number is 180

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I definitely think the avionics have advanced many folds since the ROSE upgrade. Thus an avionics upgrade is way over due.
It wouldn't hurt to give them a new camouflage as well.

Hi,

I think it started with Rose 1 and then to Rose 2 upgrade---.

The avionics were a big deal back in the 1990s when the PAF was short on multi-role fighters (just <40 F-16s). But thanks to the addition of new F-16s and JF-17s, the PAF has solved its multi-role needs.

So at this stage, electronics might not be a priority for the old Mirages. Rather, the focus may need to shift towards extending the life of the airframe and, if possible, trying to increase the payload.

 

[MastanKhan]

The avionics were a big deal back in the 1990s when the PAF was short on multi-role fighters (just <40 F-16s). But thanks to the addition of new F-16s and JF-17s, the PAF has solved its multi-role needs.

So at this stage, electronics might not be a priority for the old Mirages. Rather, the focus may need to shift towards extending the life of the airframe and, if possible, trying to increase the payload.

Hi,

I have written it before---the utility of a strike aircraft is different than that of an air superiority platform---.

Where you can get away with a lesser but a functional EW system---for air superiority---you need to be on the top tier---.