Canistered Missile Launchers for MR-SAM Developed - To Replace IAF's S-125 Neva/Pechora Missiles

[kurup]

The TEL of the Brahmos/Prahar is fine IMHO- the 12X12 Tatra is very capable in terms of its mobility and off roading capability. The Brahmos is a huge missile and if you want to transport 3 of them and launch form a vehicle you are going to need a huge vehicle.

Maybe the 12X12 is fine but look at nirbhay TEL .... in comparison look at the Chinese LACM TEL

Incorporated into a 8X8 TEl not even a 12X12

WTF how the hell are Pakistanis building better TELs than us

Pak procured those TELs directly from China ..... hence better .

 

[Abingdonboy]

Maybe the 12X12 is fine but look at nirbhay TEL .... in comparison look at the Chinese LACM TEL

Incorporated into a 8X8 TEl not even a 12X12

I agree the Nirbhay's TEL is not suited to operational duties but this is just the TEL for tests, I'm confident the operational TELs will be far superior to this. I doubt the TEL was high on the project team's list of priorities as they can easily integrate the missile on another TEL with little issue, they just needed a mobile trailer platform for these initial tests.

 

[kurup]

What is with the assumption that 6X6 is inherently superior to 8X8? 8X8 will bring additional capabilities because of its extra axle especially if it a drive axle then you would get superior weight distribution, lower ground pressure and more extreme off roading capability. 6x6 is all well and good IF the truck is up to the task and if it is reasonable to expect a truck to transport such loads with just 3 axles but one can't simply arbitrarily demand 3 axles only, sometimes the loads and the required hauling capability demands an extra axle and 8X8 trucks are extremely impressive.

Don't you think a 6X6 TEL will be shorter than a 8X8 .... hence will be more compact and have better mobility .

 

[Echo_419]

I agree the Nirbhay's TEL is not suited to operational duties but this is just the TEL for tests, I'm confident the operational TELs will be far superior to this. I doubt the TEL was high on the project team's list of priorities as they can easily integrate the missile on another TEL with little issue, they just needed a mobile trailer platform for these initial tests.

Well we better develop some good TELs ASAP

 

[Abingdonboy]

Don't you think a 6X6 TEL will be shorter than a 8X8 .... hence will be more compact and have better mobility .

Sure a 6X6 will always be shorter than the 8X8 version BUT that is not to say the 6X6 is always the preferred option. Like I have said, it depends on the cargo to be hauled and the nature of the cargo. In the case of the Brahmos TEL the missiles themselves could probably be carried and launched from the 8X8 variant but if you look behind the driver's compartment is the launch room for the Bhramos so they required a longer bodied truck. Additionally whilst a 6X6 may be shorter that doesn't necessarily mean its mobility will be improved-far from it. An extra axle means another two contact patches and thus the ability to use the raw engine power to greater effect. An extra axle will also improve the weight distribution of the vehicle and reduce the ground pressure. In many instances an 8x8 vehicle carrying an identical weight to a 6X6 vehicle will have superior off roading capability purely because of the reasons above.

Of course it is more complex than this, it also depends on the nature of the suspension and differentials but given the nature of these trucks tends to be the high-end vehicles we can assume that they all have similarly capable suspension and such.

it is not as simple as 6X6= shorter= better. It depends on what you want to haul and what exactly you want from the vehicle in terms of mobility.

Well we better develop some good TELs ASAP

TATA is well up to the job, if they are roped in they will deliver a world class product.

 

[sancho]

What is with the assumption that 6X6 is inherently superior to 8X8?

It's not about 6x6 being superior, but being lighter, smaller, more mobile and easier to transport. As seen in the howitzer examples, you might be able to fit an Ashok Leyland 6x6 with the Nexter howitzer in a C130J or MTA, while TATAs 8x8 can only be transported by IL76 or C17s.
For the trailer systems it's even worse, but can't be avoided if we talk about larger missile or weapon systems, but Barak 8 should not need a trailer system, especially since it's meant to be deployed on a wide area around India. The 8x8 system of the recent Akash tests seems reasonable, although still looks heavier than what the Israelis propose as a standard platform.

 

[Abingdonboy]

For the trailer systems it's even worse, but can't be avoided if we talk about larger missile or weapon systems, but Barak 8 should not need a trailer system, especially since it's meant to be deployed on a wide area around India. The 8x8 system of the recent Akash tests seems reasonable, although still looks heavier than what the Israelis propose as a standard platform.

Trailer systems I agree are a non-starter and need to be replaced where possible.

It's not about 6x6 being superior, but being lighter, smaller, more mobile and easier to transport. As seen in the howitzer examples, you might be able to fit an Ashok Leyland 6x6 with the Nexter howitzer in a C130J or MTA, while TATAs 8x8 can only be transported by IL76 or C17s.

Well if air-mobilty is your only criteria then you are correct but air-mobility will only get you so far. Once on the ground mobility is influenced by all the things I have outlined (weight, ground pressure, weight distribution, contact patches, drive etc). As such the 6X6 AL-L&T-Nexter MGS might be able to be carried in a C-130J but may get bogged down in the mud once it is taken off road (speaking hypothetically) but the same system on a 8x8 platform may have no such issues.

I'm not saying the Nexter system on a 6x6 vehicle is not more mobile (on the ground) than the TATA 8x8 MGS but that is not because of the trucks but the differential in weight of the respective MGS.

 

[sudhir007]

@Abingdonboy @kurup @sancho what about road did you think our road is capable to handles this kind of load and the geographical factor

 

[sancho]

Well if air-mobilty is your only criteria then you are correct but air-mobility will only get you so far.

Not at all, you can also add the cost factor, where procuring and operating a simple 6x6 truck that is also used in civil varients is far cheaper, that 8x8 dedicated military versions (same reason why A330 is cheaper to operate than an IL78).
Also smaller size increase the options to place the weapons or platforms. Look at the pics of the skyranger air defence gun that I posted, the Indonesian 6x6 does not only carry the gun itself, but also a dedicated radar, which it can offload to seperate itself. If the radar gets attacked, the gun and the truck would remain in safe distance. The Germans have an own solution on a German 6x6 truck, where you can offload the gun and keep the truck in safe distance to it too, which all is not possible with TATAs truck. So there are more factors to consider by looking at the platform, than it's offroad capability, especially since these wheeled solutions are not meant to be used offroad anyway, that's why you have seperate wheeled and tracked solutions.

what about road did you think our road is capable to handles this kind of load and the geographical factor

The roads in general should not be a problem for any of the trucks, but it is the width of the roads in many areas, that would make it difficult to use such wide and long trailer systems, that will have difficulties to be turned. That's again a fact where smaller platforms (depending on the payload) are preferable.

 

[kurup]

what about road did you think our road is capable to handles this kind of load and the geographical factor

I don't think any problem exist with the road .... even a trailer will do fine in road IMO .

What needs to be taken into account is the off-road capability .

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Israel, India about to start building MR-SAM system for the Indian army​

India and Israel might soon start building a Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) system for the Indian Army in a bid to replace Russian-made air defense systems.

India and Israel might soon start building a Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) system for the Indian Army in a bid to replace Russian-made air defense systems. "The Army has urgent requirement for one regiment (18 systems) of MRSAMs at worth of $1.5 billion, but the total requirement for these systems is about $6 billion," an Indian Army official was quoted.

The land version of MRSAM that has a range of up to 70 kilometers, is an extension of the ongoing Air Force MRSAM project, which is expected to begin induction by 2017 that is three years behind scheduled.

The Army mobile MRSAM systems will be produced together by India's defense research agency, the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), and Rafael and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) of Israel.

Both sides will develop subsystems. The system will be produced by India's Bharat Dynamics, in participation with domestic private sector companies Tata Power SED and Larsen & Toubro, the source added.

MRSAM is useful for army to defend mechanized formations operating in the plains and desert regions of the country. First delivery is now expected by 2017.

Both the nations have jointly developed Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) and have successfully tested it in 2014.

An Indian Army official said the service has needed a new surface-to-air missile system for more than a decade to replace Russian-made Kvadrat, SA-3B, and OSA-AKM systems bought between 1970 and 1980.

Source:- Defence News - Israel, India about to start building MR-SAM system for the Indian army

 

[Ronin]

They should canisterise Akash too
Not many modern SAMs are nanga punga like Akash. :p

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Israel will partner India to develop missile system​

NEW DELHI: India is close to finalizing another mega military project with Israel, which will further bolster the already expansive but secretive defence cooperation under way between the two countries since the 1999 Kargil conflict.

Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the contract negotiation committee had now virtually sealed the joint development of a medium-range surface-to-air missile system (MR-SAM) for the Indian Army through collaboration between DRDO and Israeli Aerospace Industries.

Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics, in turn, will undertake bulk production of the systems in India. Incidentally, Israel is among the top defence suppliers to India, having already inked deals and projects worth around $10 billion over the last 15 years, which range from spy and armed drones to sophisticated missile and radar systems.

During his visit to India in February, Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya'alon had even offered the advanced Iron Dome interceptor, which was used to intercept the flurry of rockets fired into his country last year, for PM Narendra Modi's Make in India policy.

As for the initial Army order for one regiment of the MR-SAM systems, with their multi-function surveillance and threat tracking radars as well as weapon control systems, it would cost over Rs 9,000 crore. "More orders might later follow since the Army's air defence capabilities are relatively weak," said a source.

The DRDO-IAI-BDL model is identical to the SAM projects already under way for the Navy and IAF, which are together worth around Rs 13,000 crore. While the interception range of IAF-Navy versions is 70-km, the one for the Army will be 50-km.

Such SAM systems are basically "area defence weapons" that locate, track and destroy incoming hostile aircraft, drones, missiles and helicopters. They are the advanced versions of the Israeli Barak-I "point anti-missile defence systems" with a 9-km range, which were fitted on 14 Indian warships several years ago.

The new SAM projects, however, have been plagued by huge delays. The one to arm Indian warships at a cost of Rs 2,606 crore, which was approved in December 2005, was to be completed by May 2011.

But it's only now that an Indian warship — the 6,800-tonne destroyer INS Kolkata commissioned by Modi in August last year — is gearing up for the actual test-firing of the SAM system for the first time. After its HOT (home on target) tests were completed in Israel last year, the SAM has also been fitted in another destroyer INS Kochi, which will be commissioned later this year.

The story has been similar for the Rs 10,076 crore SAM project sanctioned in February 2009 for IAF to plug the existing gaps in air defence coverage of the country. The project completion date has been pushed back to August 2016. It was this long delay, in fact, which had led India to put negotiations for the Army version on the backburner till now.

Source:- Israel will partner India to develop missile system - The Times of India​

 

[K M Cariappa]

Israel will partner India to develop missile system​

NEW DELHI: India is close to finalizing another mega military project with Israel, which will further bolster the already expansive but secretive defence cooperation under way between the two countries since the 1999 Kargil conflict.

Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the contract negotiation committee had now virtually sealed the joint development of a medium-range surface-to-air missile system (MR-SAM) for the Indian Army through collaboration between DRDO and Israeli Aerospace Industries.

Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics, in turn, will undertake bulk production of the systems in India. Incidentally, Israel is among the top defence suppliers to India, having already inked deals and projects worth around $10 billion over the last 15 years, which range from spy and armed drones to sophisticated missile and radar systems.

During his visit to India in February, Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya'alon had even offered the advanced Iron Dome interceptor, which was used to intercept the flurry of rockets fired into his country last year, for PM Narendra Modi's Make in India policy.

As for the initial Army order for one regiment of the MR-SAM systems, with their multi-function surveillance and threat tracking radars as well as weapon control systems, it would cost over Rs 9,000 crore. "More orders might later follow since the Army's air defence capabilities are relatively weak," said a source.

The DRDO-IAI-BDL model is identical to the SAM projects already under way for the Navy and IAF, which are together worth around Rs 13,000 crore. While the interception range of IAF-Navy versions is 70-km, the one for the Army will be 50-km.

Such SAM systems are basically "area defence weapons" that locate, track and destroy incoming hostile aircraft, drones, missiles and helicopters. They are the advanced versions of the Israeli Barak-I "point anti-missile defence systems" with a 9-km range, which were fitted on 14 Indian warships several years ago.

The new SAM projects, however, have been plagued by huge delays. The one to arm Indian warships at a cost of Rs 2,606 crore, which was approved in December 2005, was to be completed by May 2011.

But it's only now that an Indian warship — the 6,800-tonne destroyer INS Kolkata commissioned by Modi in August last year — is gearing up for the actual test-firing of the SAM system for the first time. After its HOT (home on target) tests were completed in Israel last year, the SAM has also been fitted in another destroyer INS Kochi, which will be commissioned later this year.

The story has been similar for the Rs 10,076 crore SAM project sanctioned in February 2009 for IAF to plug the existing gaps in air defence coverage of the country. The project completion date has been pushed back to August 2016. It was this long delay, in fact, which had led India to put negotiations for the Army version on the backburner till now.

Source:- Israel will partner India to develop missile system - The Times of India​

Hey buddy can you please make a list of all the SAM systems that India have because some time it gets regarding the number of Defence systems we have... Like yesterday only I got to know that we have Sterla-10M3...
So from what I know India so far has the following systems:
1. Akash
2. Sterla
3. Shilka ( Being upgraded by BEL)
4. Tunguska
5. SPYDER
6. S-300( Rumored)
7. Barack -8 (Under Development)
8. AAD
9. PAD
10. Maitri (Planned / Revived again)
11. 4K51 'Rubezh'/SS-C-3 'Styx' (For Coastal defence)
12. 40 MM L70 ( Upgraded) ### Can't classify it as SAM but still an anti-aircraft gun
13. S-125M Neva/Pechora
Now these are the systems that I know are with or under development by India... I don't know much about coastal battery systems can you please add them to this list and any other system that I may have missed...

 

[#hydra#]

Hey buddy can you please make a list of all the SAM systems that India have because some time it gets regarding the number of Defence systems we have... Like yesterday only I got to know that we have Sterla-10M3...
So from what I know India so far has the following systems:
1. Akash
2. Sterla
3. Shilka ( Being upgraded by BEL)
4. Tunguska
5. SPYDER
6. S-300( Rumored)
7. Barack -8 (Under Development)
8. AAD
9. PAD
10. Maitri (Planned / Revived again)
11. 4K51 'Rubezh'/SS-C-3 'Styx' (For Coastal defence)
12. 40 MM L70 ( Upgraded) ### Can't classify it as SAM but still an anti-aircraft gun
13. S-125M Neva/Pechora
Now these are the systems that I know are with or under development by India... I don't know much about coastal battery systems can you please add them to this list and any other system that I may have missed...

Astra based SAM