Can India do what Russia did in Ukraine? -Gen. Tariq

[Reichsmarschall]

You can simp for these guys as much you want to. Just don't pollute every thread with it

I'm surprised you still haven't realized he's talibans very own bacha boy titanium

 

[ziaulislam]

The General's assertions are correct. The military disparity between Pakistan and India is not as wide as between Ukraine and Russia, and Pakistan is more evenly matched with India on the IB (India has to commit resources elsewhere too). Conventionally, Pakistan has shorter and more sustainable supply lines, a battle hardened army, an evenly matched air force and generally sharper 'Tip of the Spear' military technology.

I don't think India would be able to do a Russia in Pakistan even just in conventional terms. They would not be able to ground the Pakistani airforce or establish air superiority, and because of India's size, as we saw in the early 2000s, they are slow to mobilise which gives Pakistan a headstart and the opportunity for a preemptive first strike (in line with our doctrine).

In terms of China, no country is going to fight another's wars. War is ultimately a destructive force and something China knows keenly (hence its approach being pushing and prodding instead of open conflict). Pakistan didn't go to war over Afghanistan in 2001 even though we were close allies, and we have stayed out of Yemen as well. What Pakistan will benefit from China though is non-kinetic support, similar to the support NATO is giving to Ukraine at the moment in the form of signit intel and supplies. Pakistan's military integration with China makes it easier for China to resupply us, especially in the air. I think the furthest China would go would be in terms of assisting us in cyber war against the Indians. As Gwadar develops as well, I think Pakistan can rely on China keeping Pakistan's sea lanes open, something which Pakistan has struggled with in past wars - Indian attempts to close or blockade Gwadar could be seen as a casus belli for China and something they will likely want to stay away from.

Essentially, Pakistan would not have the naval and supply side issues it has had in previous wars, and would be (we hope) be able to rely on superiority in the cyber dimension. What extent that superiority is in cyber we don't know - the Indians may get better at it with Western help, and the Chinese may want to limit the extent of their assistance in that domain to prevent dragging themselves into the conflict as a direct party. But I would say something similar to February 27th 2019 would be on the cards.

And also - can we please put a lid on the IEA hero worship. They are great at guerilla warfare but things only picked up for them from 2008 when Pakistan started increasing its support and they relied on safe havens in FATA. They cannot fight a conventional war. This was a mistake Hamid Gul made in Jalalabad in 1989 and a mistake the IEA made in Chaman where they were rebuffed across the border with 9-13 casualties. The Indian Army isn't the ANA and the IEA aren't some superheroes. Pakistan's army jawans are far more capable than IEA footsoldiers and by placing the latter on a pedestal we are doing our brave men a disservice.

But its only matter of time if we remain like we are at the economic front

 

[Trango Towers]

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But its only matter of time if we remain like we are at the economic front

5th colmnist are the worst. All PPP and PMLN and most of PPP and all molvis will have to be shot

 

[arjunk]

China will not get involved but someone crazy on our western border will even volunteer.. That is right the IEA.. They seem to have a large army you just slowly bring their conventional armed forces to high modern level.. Unleash them together with Pak Army.. I Guraantee you we will be able to overrun India within 12-48 months.

Besides I don't wanna ever see any General or gov't official taking a defensive approach towards India and if anyone does that he should be relieved of all his duties and sacked from their positions and posts while giving room to only the offensive oriented..

Also I wanna highlight this so that it sticks and nobody gets deluded ''WE ARE NOT IN DEFENSIVE AGAINST INDIA PERIOD WITH A BIG CAPITAL'' but rather in OFFENSIVE DOCTRINE AND WHEN FIRST BULLETS GO ALL OF INDIA IS FAIR GAME

Why these on the western borders because they are theorically crazy enough to undertake such an offensive and they don't mind to participate in it hence our approach should be only forward...

Invite the IEA to the campaign

You need tactical intelligence and pin-point precision calculations but you need above all that The crazy...

• “There's a fine line between genius and insanity. ...
• “No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness

IEA can be airdropped into the Andaman and Nicobar islands and fight to the death. I refuse to let them set foot in Pakistan or jeopardise operations in India.

 

[Mugen]

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But its only matter of time if we remain like we are at the economic front

No brainer advice. But our leadership must be mentally deficient to allow Pakistan to get to where it is now, and they seem to not want to do anything about it still.

 

[Black Tornado]

@Sudarshan
India has suceeded in the past and failed other times
They just need to create similar odds for sucess as per their general in east pakistan
1:20 odds with good local support

Lets see if india can do gain that supeirority currently its 1:3 (numbers & equipment)

Do you factor economic stability of both countries? I’ve heard you guys are literally taking loans to finance your imports when here we’re discussing how India becomes trade surplus. Any Ukraine type assault which Russia did started with cruise missiles, Pakistan can target our bases and we can target yours, but you have only one Port while we have multiple ports and when your port infra becomes obliterated then your economy cripples and evenif you destroy all of our seaports on our west coast still we’ll have our east coast safe. Thats the difference.

 

[Qutb-ud-din-Aibak]

IEA can be airdropped into the Andaman and Nicobar islands and fight to the death. I refuse to let them set foot in Pakistan or jeopardise operations in India.

No No.. They are needed for the push into the North from different axes.. They will over-perform imho like an unleashed dog chasing a dry-bone.. They will cut thru the defense lines with reckless intentions

 

[American Pakistani]

Both India and Pakistan are regional power, India being slightly ahead. So no chance.

Russia is at par with Nato and America combined, whereas Ukraine is not even a regional power.

So it's apples to oranges comparison.

Besides India was exposed naked in recent skirmish with pakistan, where pakistan fought by itself.

 

[peagle]

enthusiasts are watching the Russo-Ukraine Conflict with interest and asking the question that would India be able to execute such a maneuver against Pakistan. Well, India is not Russia and Pakistan is not Ukraine, writes Gen Tariq Khan, who retired as head of Pakistan’s Central Command


Russia has invaded Ukraine as was expected. It was a spectacular display of military capability in the face of a total military imbalance. A full spectrum application of the military instrument by land, air and sea as well as ground and air coordinated operations. In shaping the battlefield environment, the Russians targeted the Ukrainian air defence and destroyed most of the Ukrainian air force on the ground. Then the Russians engaged the Ukrainians along the border regions by a multi-directional maneuver while airborne assets simultaneously engaged the middle spaces and the depths i.e. Russian gunships and air force engaged middle-based Ukrainian deployments while airborne divisions landed in-depth capturing airports and communication centers.

Every dimension of Ukrainian military resistance was engaged piecemeal through coordinated operations. This denied any synergy or cohesion for any meaningful Ukrainian resistance and collapse is now imminent. On the second day of the invasion, Russia can establish an air-land bridge, encircle Kyiv, liberate the Donbas region and possibly set into motion the series of actions to put up a Russian Friendly Government. It is unlikely that Russia would want to occupy Ukraine but would instead prefer it to be a buffer state between itself and NATO forces; as such it is expected that Russia has achieved its objectives: i.e. liberation of Donbas and installing a friendly government, would execute a phased withdrawal.

Ukraine’s predicament is mainly a consequence of its lack of capacity​

It is the only country to give up its nuclear weapons on a vague guarantee by the US and Europe that they would protect it against any aggression. The promise was never kept and Ukraine was left on its own. Also, the disputed question of the Minsk Agreement is being interpreted differently by every side to serve their own arguments. However, the fact remains, that it was never fully implemented despite many years have passed by. Lastly, NATO’s continual attempts at wooing Ukraine to join NATO was a direct threat to Russia and had Ukraine joined NATO at any stage, NATO forces would be sharing a border direct with Russia which was totally unacceptable to Russia.

Some enthusiasts are watching the Russo-Ukraine Conflict with interest and asking the question that would India be able to execute such a maneuver against Pakistan. Well, India is not Russia and Pakistan is not Ukraine. The military parity between Pakistan and India allows Pakistan a credible conventional defence of its own territories. The conclusion and effect of the so-called Indian calculated surgical intrusion in February 2019 is a good indicator as to how Pakistan can handle the Indians.

Yet the most pertinent point in any such argument is that Pakistan never gave up its nuclear capability and in fact, if there is any lesson in the Russo-Ukraine Conflict, it’s that Pakistan must never give up this capability. Yet, the military capability of both countries does not give any clear advantage to India to invade Pakistan and whatever minimum deterrence is in place for Pakistan, is more than sufficient to deny Indian adventurism.

Read more: Biden refuses to send US troops to fight in Ukraine

How the world will be affected by the Russo-Ukraine Conflict?​

The possible consequences of the Russo-Ukraine Conflict are global recession and collapse in oil, gas and wheat prices. Europe will suffer gas shortages, industrial closures and unemployment. Russia may experience a severe economic fallout affecting its banking, reserves and business. What’s important is that Pakistan will feel the heat with wheat shortages, high fuel and energy prices that will go way higher than what they are. Economic activity will slow down and political unrest may remain on the rise. Afghanistan will assert itself for some time by pacifying its people by embarrassing Pakistan along the Durand Line on every opportunity. Baluchistan separatist movement will accelerate because of TTP and Indian support. All these matters can be contained by a proper plan and way forward and it is hoped that the Government is thinking along these lines.

Pakistan has repeatedly said it does not want to belong to any block but is there a need to say such a thing and define a position? It is recommended that Pakistan must not offer any rhetoric or wisdom, especially if it cannot sustain its commitments. In the first place, the world is indifferent to what we have to say and in the second place, our credibility is on the line as always. It’s best to remain quiet and only contribute to any meaningful dialogue if and when invited to one. Pakistan must resolve its own political crisis one way or the other. Every matter is politicized and not dealt with from a national point of view but more from hurting the opposing party.

Read more: Middle Eastern states walk a tightrope that Ukraine spins ever tighter

The moment in history and the current global upheaval points to a unified approach based on national interests. Vague ideological references and historical examples will not do. The government needs to put together an All Parties Conference and search for a common approach to what seems to be a very difficult time staring us in the face. Party and personal differences must be put aside; our priorities must focus on the economy with emphasis on gas and energy, then on security on the Eastern, Western and Southern Borders. Our intelligence agencies must be able to offer predictive analysis into the future and develop KPIs leading to major conclusions.

Having validated these conclusions, a course of action must be mounted in a timely and cost-effective manner to contain or mitigate the effects of hostile activity. The need of the hour is central authority and a decentralized execution down to the tehsil level with a coordinated civil-military oversight. This is possible by establishing fusion cells that have plug-ins related to law and order, traffic, weather, hospitals and banking including any other event, etc.

The plug-in involves medical units, police, intelligence, civil administration and the Army. Local bodies must be empowered as soon as possible and allowed to exercise their popular mandate. Development funds must be made available to them on the basis of a staggered system based on progress. External audits systems need to be put into place immediately. Our systems must be set up to support the country and its people. Pakistan must gear up to weather the storm that is on the horizon and it does not look too good at the moment.

Can India do what Russia did in Ukraine? -Gen. Tariq Khan

Russia has invaded Ukraine as was expected. It was a spectacular display of military capability in the face of a total military imbalance.

www.globalvillagespace.com

Pakistanis are experts at asking silly self defeating questions.

From silly questions, you only get silly answers.

We have fought all our past wars on ourselves, and, with our sweat and blood, and would, Inshallah, fight the coming ones, in the same manner.

And, whilst under sanctions.

 

[NaqsheYaar]

China will not get involved but someone crazy on our western border will even volunteer.. That is right the IEA.. They seem to have a large army you just slowly bring their conventional armed forces to high modern level.. Unleash them together with Pak Army.. I Guraantee you we will be able to overrun India within 12-48 months.

Besides I don't wanna ever see any General or gov't official taking a defensive approach towards India and if anyone does that he should be relieved of all his duties and sacked from their positions and posts while giving room to only the offensive oriented..

Also I wanna highlight this so that it sticks and nobody gets deluded ''WE ARE NOT IN DEFENSIVE AGAINST INDIA PERIOD WITH A BIG CAPITAL'' but rather in OFFENSIVE DOCTRINE AND WHEN FIRST BULLETS GO ALL OF INDIA IS FAIR GAME

Why these on the western borders because they are theorically crazy enough to undertake such an offensive and they don't mind to participate in it hence our approach should be only forward...

Invite the IEA to the campaign

You need tactical intelligence and pin-point precision calculations but you need above all that The crazy...

• “There's a fine line between genius and insanity. ...
• “No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness

12-48 months or hours? It would be 48 hours once it's a joint attack by Pak army and volunteers from Afghanistan.

You also won't need all that gear that you have shown in those photos , just the will to fight for Islam would be enough. Time is very close.

 

[mudas777]

Out of 24 divs facing Pak 4 are already gone, thanks to China,; 20 more to go...

Bro even if they had 88 divs, they still will be shaking in their boots. As we are taught from the birth even 100:1 ratio will not frighten us, as we only bend to only one creator and that is Almighty one.
As one Indian coward have said so eloquently above, if India can create circumstances like East Pakistan again that's the only chance they got, that's why I always said hang any proven traitor and no mercy.

United we stand and divided we fall.

Question: India who, what, is it a carrot or a potato?
Answer: Just a bad smell.

12-48 months or hours? It would be 48 hours once it's a joint attack by Pak army and volunteers from Afghanistan.

You also won't need all that gear that you have shown in those photos , just the will to fight for Islam would be enough. Time is very close.

Is Pakistan have not got enough population to volunteer or you are a coward not to come forward that you are expecting help from a tiny country while you sit on your back side? Have respect and dignity for yourself and learn to stand on your own feet.

 

[MH.Yang]

MacArthur believed that China would not intervene in the Korean War, and Le Duan also believes that China will not intervene in the third Indochina war, and Nehru also believes that China is a dove of peace, but they all paid the price.

Every time people think China will go to war, China does not go to war. When they thought China would not join the war, China came.
攻其无备，出其不意。<孙子兵法>
Attack the unprepared; do the unexpected. <Sun Tzu's art of war>

In my opinion, if India launches a large-scale war against Pakistan, China will draw a red line for India, just as the Vietnam war China draws a 17 degree line for USA. If India crosses that line, China will go to war, just as the UN army crosses the 38 degree line.

 

[Vapnope]

MacArthur believed that China would not intervene in the Korean War, and Le Duan also believes that China will not intervene in the third Indochina war, and Nehru also believes that China is a dove of peace, but they all paid the price.

Every time people think China will go to war, China does not go to war. When they thought China would not join the war, China came.
攻其无备，出其不意。<孙子兵法>
Attack the unprepared; do the unexpected. <Sun Tzu's art of war>

In my opinion, if India launches a large-scale war against Pakistan, China will draw a red line for India, just as the Vietnam war China draws a 17 degree line for USA. If India crosses that line, China will go to war, just as the UN army crosses the 38 degree line.

Since 2017, it seems that China has started taking India as an active enemy state and it is only logical to assume that China would make things difficult for India if later launches an offensive against Pakistan. It is still debatable how much China would get involved however it is accepted that it would be different than the old time.

 

[Silverblaze]

india does not have the capability to military defeat Pakistan because the damage Pakistan will do to india will be significant and in india's calculation this will be unacceptable.

Ratio of forces also does not allow india to have a free run. So, no.

 

[WalterWhite]

No need of China to take on India, neither China will be interested in opening a front other than supplying much needed weapons in case of a war!