Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[karan.1970]

By the way, something clearly is not right here.

US gives us $10 billion aid, 7.5B more to come, military assistance and aid, sells us F-16s, etc. If we were supposedly supporting Taliban (there's no proof for that but let's just assume it to be true), do you seriously think they'd give us aid? Not to mention, our economy was doing pretty good at the time and we didn't actually need the aid.

I am not just talking about democrats. We are alleged to have supported Taliban when republicans were in power. Now we all know their policy as far as any anti-American aggression/anti-american support goes. Instead of attacking us like Iraq, they gave us 10B aid, and were ready to sell us 76 F-16s.

Something is clearly not right as far as these allegations go. But I guess some prefer keeping their head buried in sand.

Didnt USA support Iraq majorly during Iran Iraq conflict.. I mean money, weapons etc in 1980s?? And invaded Iraq in the next decade when Iraq invaded kuwait.. Not saying that USA will invade Pakistan, but your point on US support to Pakistan is not too sturdy...

United States support for Iraq during the Iran?Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tshering22]

UK PM draws fire with frank talk

New Delhi - British Prime Minister David Cameron has revealed a plain-speaking streak during a tour of Turkey and India that raises questions over whether it is down to youthful inexperience or a bold new approach to diplomacy.

He caused anger among Israelis by saying in Turkey that Gaza was a "prison camp", and went on to offend Islamabad when he suggested in front of an Indian audience in Bangalore that Pakistan "promoted the export of terror".

In Ankara he also dismissed opponents of Turkish membership of the European Union as "protectionist, polarised or prejudiced", an analysis which will not be shared in Paris or Berlin. France and Germany oppose Turkish entry.

"I think it's important, as I say, to speak frankly about these things to countries that are your friends," Cameron said on Thursday in an interview with British broadcasters, adding that he would "do so in the future" as well.

India happy, Pakistan disturbed

At 43, Cameron is the youngest British prime minister in nearly two centuries. He has been in office since May.

His comments on Pakistan delighted the Indian media, which devoted much of its coverage of his visit to the subject, to the detriment of his core message that he wanted to boost trade and business links between Britain and India.

Pakistan's high commissioner to Britain, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, called Cameron's comments "completely contrary to the realities on the ground".

"A bilateral visit (to India) aimed at attracting business could have been conducted without damaging the prospects of regional peace," he wrote in a column in Thursday's edition of the British newspaper The Guardian.

'A great diplomat'

The Israeli ambassador to Britain, Ron Prosor, was equally unimpressed. "The people of Gaza are the prisoners of the terrorist organisation Hamas," he said in a sharp retort to Cameron's "prison camp" comment.

In a briefing with British journalists covering the tour, Foreign Secretary William Hague came under a barrage of questions on Thursday on whether Cameron might watch his words more carefully in future.

"The prime minister speaks the truth and we are all united and clear and happy about what he said," Hague said.

"The prime minister is a great diplomat and I see that in action every day when he's dealing with foreign leaders. He is a natural at it, so I don't think you need to be worried on that score," he said.

Cameron will get a direct response from Pakistan when he hosts President Asif Ali Zardari at his Chequers country residence in Britain next week.

Asked in his interview with British broadcasters whether he regretted damaging relations with Pakistan ahead of the meeting, he said: "I don't accept that they have been damaged ... I look forward to discussing these and other issues (with Zardari)."

UK PM draws fire with frank talk: News24: World: News

I like this frank PM very much. I am sure Indians will welcome his frank talk about Israel as well.

PS. Yes Pakistanis are terrorists and so are Israelis. Happy?

I like this frank PM very much. I am sure Indians will welcome his frank talk about Israel as well.

PS. Yes Pakistanis are terrorists and so are Israelis. Happy?

Nah.. As an official stand, we don't want to say anything about the comments he made on Israel and one people-to-people level, no we don't endorse Cameron's view that Israel is "terrorist" in any way other than the propaganda that Hamas and others spread misusing the media leverage it gains out of misused sympathy of some countries.

The rest of the comment is fine by us . What's between UK and Israel is their bilateral issue. When it comes to us and Israel, we don't agree with the comment Cameron made about Israelis.

Honestly guys, they aren't so evil as they are protrayed. Many come to India for tourism and I have met quite some. They're just like any other people. Intelligent though I must say.

 

[Patriot]

I know I should not interrupt but....I seriously got amused by your burning....lol

I would be the last person burning.Unlike others i have far more trust and confidence in Pakistan Armed Forces as such i know world can't do anything to Pakistan except sanctioning us and that my friend won't happen because no matter what people think it is the policy of USG that matters (they know the facts) and we have far more stronger ally which would veto any move against Pakistan in UN but it is responsibility as a patriotic Pakistani to counter the BS spreaded here by the Indians.Even if we do send insurgents into Kashmir so what?India will cry just as it has been crying from last 20 years.Russia supported Viet cong in Vietnam in the end US packed their bags and returned home..What could US do?Nothing just paid them in the same coin decade later.To invade a country like Pakistan (as many indians are predicting) US will have to bankrupt it's whole economy and as i see it unlike Iraqis we will actually fight ( I know we can't win nor can we stay in battle for long but our nuclear doctrine is well known and the target certainly won't be the invader rather our neighbor India.So if some other country with the collusion of Indias tries to arrange funeral of Pakistan.We'll arrange India's funeral too.

 

[karan.1970]

So would you argue that we shouldn't need to provide indians proof of indian involvement, that indians shouldn't be asking us for proof for indian involvement, that indians are in no place to attack Pakistanis and call us conspiracy theorists, etc? Because if no, then that would be utter hypocrisy and double standards, since you guys are doing the exact same thing.

You see, this is what happens when the tables turn. If the other side believes the something using standard X, you call it BS and conspiracy theory. If you believe your story also using standard X, it's 'the truth' as far as you're concerned.

Indians call us loonies, conspiracy theorists, head buried in the sand, in denial, etc, etc, for believing in indian involvement without proof. Yet indians do the same thing. So by the same stanards, indians are also loonies, conspiracy theorists, have their head buried in sand, are in denial, etc, etc.

Please understand that I am not justifying presence or abscence of proofs. I am simply saying that while action requires proofs, perceptions dont. And these perceptions end up having a longer term impact that the immidiate action. Unfortunately the world is forming all sorts of negative perceptions about Pakistan at this time. It may or may not result in an action, but certain to have long term impact on Pakistan's position in the world order. And as I said somewhere else on this thread before its name got changed, this bias will be first felt by the pakistani folks living in the west. Extremely unfortunate, since they have nothing to do with this, but true all the same...

 

[riju78]

David Cameron: It is my duty to talk tough with Pakistan
Paul Waugh, Deputy political editor, evening standard
29.07.10
A defiant David Cameron stood by his warnings over Pakistani terrorism today as he insisted it was his duty to “speak frankly” about foreign affairs.
The Prime Minister denied that the row over his remarks had overshadowed his trip to India and said it was “not acceptable” for Islamabad to host groups who threatened Britons.
But amid a backlash in Pakistan, he stressed he had been talking about “people” within the country rather than its government. Pakistan's president Asif Ali Zadari visits the UK next week and will meet Mr Cameron for talks at Chequers, his country retreat.
The Prime Minister, who also upset Israel with his remarks about Gaza, said he had decided that it was better to be more honest with foreign partners.
“I don't think British taxpayers want me to go around the world saying what people want to hear,” he said. “I don't think this has overshadowed anything. It's vital to speak frankly and clearly on these issues. I have always done that in the past and will do so in the future.”
Islamabad's high commissioner to Britain criticised Mr Cameron for warning that Pakistan must not be allowed to “promote the export of terror” around the world. The Prime Minister said he was not responsible for the headlines generated by his comments.
But he went on: “It is not acceptable for there to be, within Pakistan, terrorist groups threatening not only Pakistan itself but also other countries, including British people, whether in Afghanistan or back at home. To be fair to the Pakistani government, they have taken action against these groups. We need them to do more and we will support and help them as they do more. But I think it's important, as I say, to speak frankly about these things to countries that are your friends.”
He rejected Pakistani suggestions his remarks were based on leaked military logs from the Afghan war, saying his point was that Pakistan needs to “make progress” in driving terror groups out.
Mr Cameron, who was due to meet the Indian premier Manmohan Singh today at the end of his three-day “jobs mission”, said he would also be frank with India about the need for it to open its markets to UK business.
However, Pakistan, which is reeling from a major air disaster, was also furious at his decision to reverse the Labour government's ban on exporting civil nuclear power to India. Critics claim such technology can be used in nuclear arms production.
The Pakistani high commissioner to Britain, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, said people in his country had been “really hurt” by Mr Cameron's remarks about terrorism and he called on him to “make amends”.
He also suggested that the Prime Minister had made a mistake because he was inexperienced.
Speaking to the BBC, Mr Hasan said he hoped that the comments by Mr Cameron were a “slip of the tongue” and “not a meant slight by him”. The high commissioner added: “He is new in government.
“Maybe he will learn soon and he will know how to handle things.”
* The Prime Minister impressed the butler at his Indian hotel with his courteous manner, it emerged today. Staff at the Leela Palace Kempinski Hotel in Bangalore described him as the first VIP at the hotel to be so “down to earth”. Mr Cameron praised the butler Leo for doing a “fantastic job”. The staff were “floored” by his good manners.

 

[Bang Galore]

I don't have time to respond to the entire thing, but here are a couple of quick points you can clarify:



"I don’t know the specifics (of the revelations made by Headley) but I know that it has been quite a revealing set of facts that we’ve shared with the Pakistani authorities," Clinton said during an interaction with a group of television anchors...

...Headley's interrogation by American investigators, which "brought much of this to light", is continuing, she said.

Based on the highlighted section, it would appear that Hillary is referring to information gleaned from Headley under US investigations, not Headley's alleged confessions made by the Indians. The information the US obtained from Headley was shared with Pakistan a while back, and is largely reflective of the information in his deposition.


So no, this does not in anyway validate your argument that the fantastic 'fantastic' confession the the GoI and Indian media have been ranting about are true.

The only thing fantastic here is your assertion that what the Secretary of State shared with Pakistan " is largely reflective of the information in his deposition."

How would you know? Was that revealed to you by the Secretary of state or by her Pakistani interlocutors? Why does the Secretary of State have to mention the sharing of information which according to you is available in a public deposition? I suspect that you added that line to try & obfuscate the fact that your arguments in this post serve to blow monster sized holes in your earlier arguments. I'm going to continue my argument without any further reference to this particular fantastic claim.

So, what do we know here? That Headley has told the Americans some secrets that they have felt compelled to share parts at least with the Pakistani authorities. Headley had secrets that he revealed to American investigators & seperately to Indian investigators. The information gleaned might have overlapped or been different depending on the questions asked .

So much for your insistence that Headley said nothing that was not present in the deposition.

Please post the relevant report from wikileaks so that the language and allegations can be looked at, because the first point to make is that there should be some reason for this report to be considered more reliable than the one about Osama flying off to NK to shop for weapons.

The link to the article it was sourced from was in my earlier post. One particular reason that this might have more credibility is that it names Stephen Kappes, the CIA’s deputy head as having confronted the ISI. It also squares with a report from that period;

WASHINGTON — American intelligence agencies have concluded that members of Pakistan’s powerful spy service helped plan the deadly July 7 bombing of India’s embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, according to United States government officials.

The conclusion was based on intercepted communications between Pakistani intelligence officers and militants who carried out the attack, the officials said, providing the clearest evidence to date that Pakistani intelligence officers are actively undermining American efforts to combat militants in the region.

...........The New York Times reported this week that a top Central Intelligence Agency official traveled to Pakistan this month to confront senior Pakistani officials with information about support provided by members of the ISI to militant groups. It had not been known that American intelligence agencies concluded that elements of Pakistani intelligence provided direct support for the attack in Kabul.

American officials said that the communications were intercepted before the July 7 bombing, and that the C.I.A. emissary, Stephen R. Kappes, the agency’s deputy director, had been ordered to Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, even before the attack. The intercepts were not detailed enough to warn of any specific attack.

The government officials were guarded in describing the new evidence and would not say specifically what kind of assistance the ISI officers provided to the militants. They said that the ISI officers had not been renegades, indicating that their actions might have been authorized by superiors.

“It confirmed some suspicions that I think were widely held,” one State Department official with knowledge of Afghanistan issues said of the intercepted communications. “It was sort of this ‘aha’ moment. There was a sense that there was finally direct proof.”


The information linking the ISI to the bombing of the Indian Embassy was described in interviews by several American officials with knowledge of the intelligence.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/world/asia/01pstan.html

.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, could have referring to 'payback' in the political sense. You should at least have him clarify.

Your job, not mine.
As for getting "your panties into a bunch". it would be better advised to tell that to most of your countrymen on this thread and you could probably include yourself. So many people upset over supposedly ineffectual comments from an supposedly unimportant leader.

It's all cheery tonight from where I am sitting.

Here is reason why Cameron talking anti Pakistan..
Money talks

There's a part of that saying that has been missed.
It's Money talks & Bull**** walks.

Yeah.............Lot of that around!

 

[Pakistani_Regiment]

why do indians agree with chintu views?

 

[karan.1970]

Miliband rounded on Cameron's comments, claiming there was a "big difference between straight-talking and being a loudmouth".

Miliband said everyone had "two ears and one mouth" and it was important to use them "in that proportion" when it came to foreign policy.

Milliband forgot to add that everyone has one brain and it is very important to use it appropriately.But i guess he will say this in privacy to his honourable PM.

Miliband just ensured that the British PM will stick to his stand on Pakistan as backing down now will look like backing down from Miliband...

 

[into the wild]

best fit for indin masala, hot n spicy, chilli salty news lovers, best of luck with such a fun lol

 

[karan.1970]

Forget it guys. Let's talk about "Cameron direct"(his nick name) views on Israel.
Blunder after blunder.

Cameron Honeymoon Over

By Justin Cohen - Wednesday 28th July 2010

David CAMERON'S honeymoon with Israel and the Jewish community is under severe strain this week following a "one-sided" speech in which he labelled Gaza "a prison camp" and he failed to mention Hamas.

MPs from his own party and Conservative Friends of Israel were among those to take issue with the comments, which came in a speech in Ankara during which he vowed to fight for Turkey's entry into the EU and urged Turkey and Israel not to give up their friendship following recent strains.

After branding Israel's recent interception of the Gaza flotilla as "completely unacceptable", Cameron said: "The situation in Gaza has to change. Humanitarian goods and people must flow in both directions. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp." Only later, during a press conference, did he make any reference to the rocket attacks from Gaza which led to the blockade of the Strip,which has been recently eased.
A senior communal source indicated that the Foreign Office had privately made it clear that they had not been aware that the Prime Minister would include the "prison camp" comment in his speech.

The speech drew a strong reaction from CFI, with director Stuart Polak saying: "In calling Gaza a prison camp, the prime minister has failed to address Hamas' role in creating the Gaza we see today. The organisation�s obsessive hatred for Israel and continued terrorist tactics have long overridden any concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people."

He added: "The prime minister�s words certainly did not reflect the wider context and I'm sure this will be urgently addressed by the government. This oversight is regrettable as he has never pulled any punches where Hamas is concerned. Describing Hamas as a theocracy who target innocent life, he has always been very clear on what sort of organisation they are and that there should be no moral equivalence with Israel."

Israeli ambassador Ron Prosor said: "The people of Gaza are the prisoners of the terrorist organisation Hamas. The situation in Gaza is the direct result of Hamas� rule and priorities." And leaving little room for doubt as to his concern, Board of Deputies President Vivian Wineman added: "If the new Government wishes to be a credible player in the Middle East peace process, it should avoid one-sided, emotive language."

Disquiet was also expressed from within Cameron's own benches. Harlow MP Robert Halfon said he "disagreed with what David Cameron said in the sense that it apportioned unfair blame on Israel". But he claimed the relationship between Israel and the party remained "very strong", pointing to last week's promise to amend the law of universal jurisdiction.

While Cameron, in June, spoke of "effectively, a giant open prison in Gaza", this will be seen as a harshening of rhetoric on the issue.

However, a Downing Street spokeswoman insisted there is no change in policy. "The PM was making clear the need to improve access to and from Gaza, which he has said before. In his press conference yesterday he reiterated that he has 'long supported lifting the blockade and allowing humanitarian access.' While we welcomed the Israeli decision to ease restrictions on Gaza, it is important to translate this into concrete change on the ground as soon as possible."

She also pointed out that "the Foreign Secretary has said that Hamas continue to pursue an ideology of violence and directly to undermine prospects for peace in the region. Hamas need to take immediate and concrete steps towards to the Quartet principles; to cease indiscriminate rocket fire at Israeli civilians unconditionally, to release Gilad Shalit who has been held in captivity for four years."

TotallyJewish.com | News | National

I know the intent, but arent we off topic here.. His comments about Israel should form another thread..??

 

[GreenStar]

Pakistan should not worry about his comment, because he is a crackhead.

Yes, I took drugs, says Cameron - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Maybe the Indian Prime Minister gave him a joint to smoke, just before the press conference.

 

[into the wild]

Pakistan should not worry about his comment, because he is a crackhead.

Yes, I took drugs, says Cameron - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Maybe the Indian Prime Minister gave him a joint to smoke, just before the press conference.

a similar was the case with bharati nadeem paracha

 

[WAQAS119]

BAE AND ROLLS-ROYCE SEAL £700M INDIA DEAL

DEFENCE firms BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce yesterday cashed in on a drive to boost trade links with India by sealing a £700million deal to supply Hawk jets to the Indian military.
BAE signed a £500million deal to supply 40 Hawks to the country’s air force and 17 to its navy and Rolls-Royce unveiled a £200million contract to build Adour engines for the aircraft, which India will use to train pilots to fly supersonic fighter jets.

BAE announced the deal as Prime Minister David Cameron toured a Hindustan Aeronautics plant in Bangalore during a trade trip to India

hey wait! don't kill me. This is not off topic....
More will be coming out in few days.

 

[Awesome]

Just a personal blog entry on how I feel about the issue:

Cameron’s embrace of terrorism | Asim Aquil – Defence.pk blogger

Throughout David Cameron’s prep for his India tour, his PR team repeated a single mantra to him over and over – “Do not mention Kashmir in India”. Owing to his inexperience in world politics they feared a slip up and feared angering the cash cow goddess that India is by mentioning Kashmir.

Kashmir is in extreme prominence these days. No “export” of terror from Pakistan this time around, but the Indian security forces are getting a beating of their lifetime by normal Kashmiris for (proven) Indian hand in killing ordinary Kashmiris and claiming them as Pakistan backed (cough-exported-cough) militants. The did this in exchange for medals and lucrative promotions handed out by the Indian government. The more dead bodies they stacked up, the better. There are also very regular occurrences of rapes, mass murders, burning of villages and of course curbing of the free press – mainly Pakistan supportive media outlets.

Cameron decided this brand of terrorism – oppression, tyranny, murder, rapes and arson are to be embraced – he was only a good little cheerleader after all gone to crib about Pakistan in front of its arch enemy. Not to forget this was absolutely necessary for Cameron as well. He struck several Faustian deals, racking up Indian contracts. So his prostitution at the level of the Indian head of state wasn’t totally useless for the UK.

Quite frankly the fault primarily lies with the Pakistani leadership that has been to sheep to speak up and is readily accepting diktats from western powers. A single reminder that 30,000 Pakistani lives have been lost in this fight against terror, in these efforts to contain terrorism within our borders so they are not “exported”, to ensure that the British forces fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan have a continuous supply of resources and logistical support right through Taliban territory and not to forget that UK born British citizens also regularly come in search for extremist brand of Islam and pollute our population pool and become the same enemy that Cameron cribs about; a single reminder would set these cowboys straight.

David Cameron spoke of Pakistan as an enemy. All of Pakistan wants the government of Pakistan to follow the democratic demand and ensure David Cameron – or perhaps the UK gets an enemy-ish treatment. I know its jumping the gun if we declare war – but I think the situation at least warrants flipping them off.

Mr. President, Mr. PM? Please don’t reaffirm your uselessness by sitting on your behinds yet again.

 

[deckingraj]

This has been discussed several times my friend. Your argument about the western public's perception is too simplistic.

Because most of the world you're talking about (i.e. the western world) has similar interests to India, so yes they'd believe the same.

Here's something I recommend you to check out.
Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering that, it's not like that western people believing the same thing or nearly the same thing makes even an iota of difference.


There hasn't been any proof provided - and that's the most important part of all this. Western public is on the same page because of their interests, because of what their media feeds them.

Their media is similar to indian media in this case. They accuse us without proof, and their rumours, hearsay, and unnamed sources are enough 'proof' for them. For Pakistanis, believing in the same things is believing in conspiracy theories.

Yes Sir...You are right about the bolded part....That's why i wanted to show the difference....Indians blame pakistan and Pakistanis blame india for wrong-doings in their respective country...However world community is somewhat supporting India's claims and outright reject Pakistan's...Like it or not we are part of this world and with that aspect world community is important....If Pakistan want's the world to do anything about India's alleged role in Baloch then you need world community on your side to pressurize India...it is as simple as that....

Now coming back to your comment about "similar interest to india" then i am not sure what you exactly mean...The way i see, Pakistan is an adversary to us(read India) and an ally on WOT to them(read west).....Now the big question is why are these leaders every now and then make such statements without any proof(as you are claiming)???? Why on this earth any country will upset its ally for the sake of non-ally for something(read terrorism) which is just a cooked up report(as alleged)???

Can we both deny that pakistan is very important to US/UK atleast for the short run(read WOT in AF)?? So what is going wrong???

B/W public sentiments in a democracy should not be ignored so easily....The kind of news coming up in the newspaper that i read(almost everyday) while using Metro Trains makes me feel that wikileaks are nothing but solid proofs(which i know they are not) and are detrimental to already battered Pakistan's PR(to say the least) ....