Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[desiman]

And for probably the 1,453,875,232 time - an utterly simplistic post by an indian.

Let's see who is pointing fingers at us. Indians, Afghans, maybe parts of western media. Nowhere near 'everyone'. Besides, the problem with your is best described below:

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do remember the Iraq war btw? Lots of finger pointing before the war but in the end we all know what was 'the reality'.

And btw, again, don't talk of your version of reality as the reality.

It's really astounding to see how many indians have their heads buried in the sand and their earlier talk of logic and rationality seems to be lost on themselves.

It's best to get out of denial mode and stop living in a simplistic world.

Btw, cameron is not doing this to use india for his own benefits? You do realize the deals that were signed on this tour right? What world are you living in dude? A simpleton perfect world?

i dont know what your trying to prove here with all these fancy words, the point is simple, India has always said that Pakistan support terrorism and uses it as a state policy and now other countries are also beginning to understand this. Cameron was very right in what he said and kudos to him for standing up like this. Its seems almost comical on how every Pakistani writes of every western media report as propaganda but calls its own media " revolutionary". The state of Pakistan today goes beyond everything else is proving what Cameron said was right. You breed the snake to bite India and its biting you back now. I cant thing of how anyone can deny that. The WOT is going on in Pakistan not in India so whatever your trying to prove, it makes no difference. His comments are true and its very brave of him to stand up like that. You can call all Indian post simplistic but the points they prove seem to complex for you to accept. The world is very simple, its only us that want to over complicate things.

 

[SMC]

i dont know what your trying to prove here with all these fancy words,

I thought it was very clear and I think it's clear to most other people too. Though the fact that you completely dodged what I said suggests you're not capable of understanding these concepts - which should not be too hard to grasp. Either that, or you're thick, or you're not willing to acknowledge that your logic won't work in the real world.

the point is simple, India has always said that Pakistan support terrorism and uses it as a state policy and now other countries are also beginning to understand this.

India has said that, yes, and I couldn't care less what India has to say.

As far as other countries saying this - you like many other indians are overestimating anti-Pakistan perception. Only parts of the western public seriously care about Pakistan in the Afghan war. Many don't even think Pakistan is a major component of the war.

You're also implicitly suggesting that the western public wants US to declare war on Pakistan, but what the actual public opinion couldn't be more different.

Furthermore, you're suggesting that the west (or at least whatever parts of it) is saying this because of india. No, no, no. They are saying this because of their own interests - because they are involved in the Afghan war.

Cameron was very right in what he said and kudos to him for standing up like this. Its seems almost comical on how every Pakistani writes of every western media report as propaganda but calls its own media " revolutionary".

Not sure what your point is. Where is the "western media" getting it's information from, may I ask you?

The state of Pakistan today goes beyond everything else is proving what Cameron said was right.

Huh? I am not even going to bother wasting my time responding to these childish simplistic remarks.

You breed the snake to bite India and its biting you back now. I cant thing of how anyone can deny that.

You again seem to be bringing off-topic remarks to dodge from the lack of your intellectual capability and capability to think critically and not just like an armchair expert.

What does this have to do with anything I said? Anyway, this has been discussed many times before so I will not waste my time discussing this again.

The WOT is going on in Pakistan not in India so whatever your trying to prove, it makes no difference.

Again, what does Wot going on in Pakistan and in Afghanistan and in the middle east have anything to do with what this topic is about. I am not even sure what you're trying to imply with that one.

His comments are true and its very brave of him to stand up like that.

Not are true, but are true in your opinion.

You can call all Indian post simplistic but the points they prove seem to complex for you to accept.

So the points that

A) Since Cameron said it, it must be true
B) That many people in the west believe it so it must be true

are too complex for me to understand?

Your simplistic way of thought just went up a notch.

The world is very simple, its only us that want to over complicate things.

And just went up again. "The world is very simple"... mind me asking how old are you? Does Iraq war suggest anything simple? Does Operation Northwoods suggest anything simple? Does Iran Contra affair suggest anything simple? Does supporting of insurgents in other countries by multiple states suggest anything simple? Only in your utopia is this world simple.

 

[nwmalik]

Mr Cameron's verbal diarrhea continues.
trying to explain previous remarks but making it worse.

 

[Comet]

Same old formula. Britisher come, say and do stuff to ignite thing between people of South Asia, sell their stuff, make money, and go home. Nothing new.

 

[karan.1970]

Mr Cameron's verbal diarrhea continues.
trying to explain previous remarks but making it worse.

you mean worse from Pakistan's perspective?? He simply stood by what he said..It sounded worse to you because you were expecting him to backtrack..

 

[DGMO]

Again, the spotlight is fixed firmly on Ghaddari.

Cameron has said his piece, and he's not budging. So the wait is now on for Friday. Ghaddari needs to get something from that meeting, and given that Cameron is unwilling to backtrack, it better be something meaningful.

Just coming out and saying "I explained our position to Cameron" and coming out with the usual claptrap won't wash.

He has snubbed public, political and military advice to cancel this visit and return home. That is due to what Cameron said, but now the added situation regarding the floods.

Even the UK press are scathing in their coverage of him, just look at today's Telegraph. Quite incredible.

Two high profile Pakistani origin MP's have come out openly and not only criticised Ghaddari for meeting Cameron, but have refused to meet him.

He's never been more exposed or isolated.

 

[niaz]

Like most of my compatriots, I was deeply disappointed on hearing David Cameron’s remark about terrorism and Pakistan. I had decided that Conservative Party under his leadership is not going to get my vote in future elections. However I have since changed my mind.

I regularly watch ARY, Dawn News TV and Geo TV discussions on current events. Last night’s program ‘Views on News’ was an eye opener. Guests included Maulana Ludhianvi, Head of SSP Pakistan as well leaders from ANP, PPP and MQM. Situation as I understand is as under:

SSP & Lashkar Jhangvi and TTP are banned organizations. Interior Minister Rehman Malik does not tire of implicating their members in attacks. To my simple mind ‘Banned’ means banned. That is, party should cease to exist or go underground. However this is not the case in Pakistan. Party simply changes its name and carries on business as usual. Courts also take no notice with the view that it was party that was banned but not its members.

This is preposterous. Party is made up of its members. If a party is banned for anti state activities, it is because that its members were involved in terrorism and therefore should not be allowed to carry doing the same thing under a different guise. Else what is the point of banning in the first place?

Ground realties are that known SSP activists are allowed by Election Commission as well as the Law Courts to contest elections as independents. A few have even been elected. One SSP stalwart in Khyber Pakhtunkhwah supported ANP to form the government. 24 PPP MNA’s/MP’s at various location got elected thru SSP support. A lot of PML-N MP’s/MNA’s from South Punjab could only succeed with the active support of SSP. Ludhianvi himself got 47,000 votes and only lost only by 3000 votes in the Jhang constituency. Most of the terrorists belonging to TTP who ran away to Karachi after the Waziristan Operations, especially those belonging to Mahsood tribes are hiding in the ANP constituency in Karachi under the protection of ANP. So much for the War on terror!

They say that all is fair in love and war. In Pakistan, all is fair in politics. Despite the fact that Taliban assassinated son of ANP Minister in the North; for the sake of accumulating power, Taliban are protected by ANP leaders in Karachi. This indicates the depth of hypocrisy that political parties have stooped to. Main reason is that a significant percentage of Pakistanis actually support terrorists and political parties want their vote.

Let us face it, even a child will tell you that attack on MQM office was carried out by the ANP supporters. Similarly majority of the Pashtoons among the 60 odd people that lost their life following MQM MP’s murder did so at the hands of MQM activists.

Pakistan in general and Karachi in particular is bleeding and the country is being destroyed but Pakistanis are keeping quite and unwilling to come out and call spade a spade.

At least in forum we should be honest with ourselves and accept that:

- While all Pashtoons are not terrorists; majority of the suicide bombers are ethnic Pashtoons.
- Both MQM and ANP are equally guilty in Karachi target killings.
- PPP Sindh government is deliberately keeping there hands off. That is why no one has so far been apprehended despite hundreds of Pakistanis having lost their lives.
- Except parties such as Tehreek Insaaf and MQM, all other major political parties have links with Islamic terrorist organization such as TTP, SSP etc.
- MQM while not associated with Islamic terrorists would employ terror tactics to realize their objectives without slightest hesitation.


It is about time that we Pakistanis realize the extent towards anarchy that Pakistan has slipped. All the sacrifices by PA Jawans have in fact been wasted. Thanks to the duplicity of the political parties, terrorists have simply shifted to the cities. War on terror would never be won if our political leaders carry on speaking with the “forked tongue’.

Based on the above I conclude that British Prime Minister was correct in his remarks about terrorism in Pakistan and that he should not back down.

 

[was]

in these days i have visited several indian newspapers and forums.
my god.after reading comments i am really shocked(not surprised).they are really obsessed and they really hate to death everything related to pakistan.
even on a newspaper like times of india wich they say is the biggest media group of india.

 

[JK!]

Its no insult to say something the way it is.

I could write and explain my above point but Niaz above has got it absolutely spot on.

 

[GUNNER]

Most of the terrorists belonging to TTP who ran away to Karachi after the Waziristan Operations, especially those belonging to Mahsood tribes are hiding in the ANP constituency in Karachi under the protection of ANP. So much for the War on terror!

There is a huge Pakhtun community in Karachi. I don’t think it is fair to blame ANP that it is supporting terrorists. Few individual may be supporting these terrorists, even that is not proven, but it’s not party policy. ANP has suffered a lot in the WOT as you mentioned.

Taliban are protected by ANP leaders in Karachi. This indicates the depth of hypocrisy that political parties have stooped to. Main reason is that a significant percentage of Pakistanis actually support terrorists and political parties want their vote.

Again it is a generalization which is not true. Let's not fall for propaganda.

Let us face it, even a child will tell you that attack on MQM office was carried out by the ANP supporters.

The investigation so far reveals that the attack was carried out by LeJ activists which were backed by TTP. No doubt it aims to exploit the differences between ANP and MQM. But i don't see how you justify Cameroon's remarks with this.

-While all Pashtoons are not terrorists; majority of the suicide bombers are ethnic Pashtoons.

I don’t see how ethnicity is relevant to the terrorism issue. Many are also Punjabis. And who is denying this anyway.

-Both MQM and ANP are equally guilty in Karachi target killings.

Agreed. Still, it doesn't justify Cameroon's remarks.

-PPP Sindh government is deliberately keeping there hands off. That is why no one has so far been apprehended despite hundreds of Pakistanis having lost their lives.

As long as the police remains politicized and appointments are made on political basis, these issues will linger on. It's not just in Karachi but elsewhere in Pakistan as well.

-Except parties such as Tehreek Insaaf and MQM, all other major political parties have links with Islamic terrorist organization such as TTP, SSP etc..

This is again a generalization. TTP's links are proven with JUI-F.

However, since you have given the example of SSP, let me say that SSP has existed since the 80’s. Several factions have emerged out of it. LeJ being one. The split came about because there were serious differences. After it was banned by Musharraf, there was also a split. And, the current SSP leadership is also under threats from TTP. There is no proof that it is involved in terrorist activities right now.

 

[Spring Onion]

Napoleon Bonaparte, was correct in his assessment when he termed the British as a nation of petty shopkeepers.

 

[BATMAN]

Pakistan in general and Karachi in particular is bleeding and the country is being destroyed but Pakistanis are keeping quite and unwilling to come out and call spade a spade.

Sir, people usually don't come to streets and protest, what more worst could be than loosing dear ones?
Where as any natural street protest ought to be bloody and it can only be effective if it is uni-directional and objective.
I always analyze those agitations in last govt. when media personal attacked police barricading (with sticks) and famous long march..... Which really toppled the govt. (revolution if may say)..... Were those agitations natural?
I you remember police captured respectively many journalists and lawyers which were actually not! Jurnos. and lawyers.
Today, situation has surpassed those levels (so called dictatorship rhetoric) which triggered previous protests.
Again, if i may ask.....remember, how violent lawyers were seen while protesting?
Point is past revolution was artificial and so is today’s govt.
City people know pretty much what is going on and this is why regime's popularity graph is negative and this is why regime has no connection with public, what so ever.

Today, govt. control every institution via illegal hiring, this is why we see degree crunch and politicians challenging every institutions.... incl. judiciary.

Due to corrupt ways..... Judiciary has no respect among ruling clan...... and merely a tool for adjusting the power share.

If you have noticed our politicians have already sent their siblings abroad and have bought properties in UK, they have no share in Pakistan!
This incl. the friendly opposition, which most likely will try to hijack any popular revolution.

Based on the above I conclude that British Prime Minister was correct in his remarks about terrorism in Pakistan and that he should not back down.

This is your anger because you wish good for Pakistan and every sane person is in your shoes.
Those people must suffer who brought upon zardari on them selves by themselves.
For this mess i mainly blame, lawyers, media, iftikhar ch., Jamat Islami and Sharif family and their chamchay.

 

[su-47]

Napoleon Bonaparte, was correct in his assessment when he termed the British as a nation of petty shopkeepers.

And Napoleon himself would have changed his mind after Battle of Waterloo, when Bonaparte's army became 'blown-apart' army

Whether you like it or not, Cameron's comments, and his subsequent refusal to take them back, have shown the attitude of 10 Downing Street towards Pakistan. Whether you agree with them or not is another matter.

 

[BATMAN]

in these days i have visited several indian newspapers and forums.
my god.after reading comments i am really shocked(not surprised).they are really obsessed and they really hate to death everything related to pakistan.
even on a newspaper like times of india wich they say is the biggest media group of india.

their was a survey in india (much before Mumbai shooting) and 100% indians urged their govt. to nuke Pakistan.

I hope many of us meet and greet apparently friendly looking indinas in UK and middleast...... but same indians when go to india support anti Muslim organisations.
We in Pakistan are fed by indian moveis and 'aman ki asha'
Ever wonder why much stressed people to people contact by indian govt. is no more?
simply becasue it did not have good out come... now only bollywood acters are sent to stupid Pakistan.
Have we forgotten that Pakistani crickiters were threatened for playing in india?
Why do you think indians are after Zaid Hamid? because his talking are awakign call for Pakistanis.

I don't blame cameron... my self.
If indian FM can come in Pakistan and can blame Pakistan for exporting terrorism to inida (in more or less same words) infront of our FM and media and friendly opposition. In comparison what cameron commited is a minor offence.

Who holded back zardari to respond on even terms?

 

[IceCold]

Whether you like it or not, Cameron's comments, and his subsequent refusal to take them back, have shown the attitude of 10 Downing Street towards Pakistan. Whether you agree with them or not is another matter.

The way i see it the reason why Cameron has decided to stick to his comments is because there is hardly any reaction at all from GOP which represents Pakistan and its people. For God sake if the accused wont raise a voice against his/her accusation, why would the accuser feel the need to step back?