Buner falls without a fight

[Xeric]

all the while your Islamist buddies express support for inhumane Islamic laws, all the while you ensure that instread of focuiing on the talib menace, we are focused on the Indian, the Raw and the israeli - what is ti that you hope to hide? It cannot be hidden.

You don't live in Pakistan so why are you so afraid of the so called 'inhumane Islamic Laws"??

BTW they are inhumane in the eyes of those who are habitual law breakers.

And we focus on RAW and israel because they are the who pinch us... why don't you find any thread about Canada, Brazil, South Africa and numerous other countries and entities they don't 'pinch' us.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM

How is it that "missing the forest for the trees" is Sarcasm? Is it that it disagrees with the automaon position you seek to promote on this forum?

Thread after thread blaming the Indian for lahore when all the while we know it's the islamist terrorists who did this - when the link with the lashkar has been established? Yet should a post or a thread appear that sheds light or poses uncomfortable questions, you awaken from slumber? Something here is not as it should be. Does anybody now even remember what lahore was really about?

Thread after thread has not been created by the forum administration (and please, let me know of all these threads on RAW being blamed for the Lahore attacks so I can merge them), nor has any thread arguing the opposite, or arguing the Taliban threat been deleted.

You continue to make general accusations without indicating exactly where and how this 'censorship' or willful promotion of a particular agenda is occurring.

and it's the same with the post enigma presented -- all his CI experience and he cannot answer how it is thagt army signal corp cannot block an ordinary FM signal and a broadcast that they know will be broadcast at a specific time??

And all that CI experience and nto a ananswer as to how come this has been allowed to go on for 8 years ?

Now that would be a legitimate question to ask as a response to Enigma's post, instead of the sarcastic nonsense posted.

When I say what do you hope to hide, this is exactly what I am referring to - I have become convinced that whatever the agenda you are following, it is directed towards something other than bringing truth to forum members.

Nonsense - you are free to ask whatever questions you wish, raise whatever points you wish.

The only thing you have been asked to do is refrain from sarcasm, which is apparently too much for you.

-- Et Tu? Sarcasm? from you? tsk, tsk

Guilty as charged, though I must say that when you are accusing me of having a 'hidden agenda, suppression and censorship' because I asked you to tone down your sarcasm on the threads, its not easy to address the complaint seriously.

 

[muse]

Enigma

The only thing that "pinches" you, is reality. It's the isdlamist terrorist talib who have wrested control of Swat from Pakistan, It's the Islamist Terrorist talib who have defeat the pakistan army and taken control of Waziristan but since reality is a problem for you, you feel a "pinch" as you say, from imaginary foes, because in the real foes you either find to difficult to deal with or are will soon "adapt" to use AM's terminology.

If you really had all that CI experience, how is that you did not answer the question posed?? How is it that the question did not occur to you in the first place??

How is it that army signal corp has not been able to block a simple FM signal for the past 8 years? What's really going on?

Now, it might be OK with you that the people of Pakistan pay with their lives for some deep strategy, others are not embued with your certitude and unquestioning mind - CI and a unquestioning mind, do those really go together?

 

[muse]

Guilty as charged, though I must say that when you are accusing me of having a 'hidden agenda, suppression and censorship' because I asked you to tone down your sarcasm on the threads, its not easy to address the complaint seriously.

Is that so? It's no accusation, I am telling it to you straight, you are dedicated to hiding the menace of the talib. You want want "stuff" brought to yur attention and yoiu will act, you say - why? you are the mod, do your mod thing, you did it with out any prodding with my "sarcasm" but evertything else you have to be prodded to do? Sell it elsewhere.

Between you and me, I am persuaded that you will promote the Islamist point of view to the detriment of the pakistani, you will do this by arguing that the point of view of our enemies is valid and ought to be heard - and in doing so give voice to those who will confuse further the frightened, confused and friendless Pakistanis. But of course it is your "right" to do this and our right to expose it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Is that so? It's no accusation, I am telling it to you straight, you are dedicated to hiding the menace of the talib. You want want "stuff" brought to yur attention and yoiu will act, you say - why? you are the mod, do your mod thing, you did it with out any prodding with my "sarcasm" but evertything else you have to be prodded to do? Sell it elsewhere.

Between you and me, I am persuaded that you will promote the Islamist point of view to the detriment of the pakistani, you will do this by arguing that the point of view of our enemies is valid and ought to be heard - and in doing so give voice to those who will confuse further the frightened, confused and friendless Pakistanis. But of course it is your "right" to do this and our right to expose it.

Muse,

You have not presented one single instance of this 'hidden agenda and censorship'. You have made a mountain out of a molehill because of one request, out of all of your posts, to tone down on sarcasm, and for whatever reason you think that yours is the only post I have ever gone after for that particular reason.

I really have no clue as to why you are intent on chasing shadows here. Continue to think of me however you wish - your labeling me XYZ does not make me so. But if you wish to engage in discourse with me, please do so constructively and on the issues, not on what you perceive my ideology to be or where you perceive my sympathies to lie.

You have rephrased your response to Enigma and asked a genuine question that has been raised in the media and on this forum before, without a satisfactory answer, so I will consider the issue closed.

 

[wtf]

Off topic but asked for it..
Similarly as 9 people took over a city of 13,922,125 people , And how it took hundreds of personnel to take it back from the.

Not as off topic as you think. Mumbai was never taken over - that incident is similar to Lahore. The state apparatus remains intact, elections are on, people go about their job and most importantly people remain unarmed.

A better comparison is Kashmir. The combined might of Pakistani cannonfire across the borders and the terrorists guns and bombs could not convince Indian Army to negotiate a treaty or to accede to Pakistani demands. The only thing that will change the status, if at all, will be peaceful negotiations.
What causes Pakistani Army to not be able to impose the constitution in Swat ? Why can't Army enter Buner which is halfway inside the territory (not a border area by any stretch)? How difficult is it to shut down an FM station ?

I don't think RAW is involved in this - if it is so easy to take over parts of Pakistan, India would be in Islamabad by now. No one in India has a mighty opinion of the RAW as Pakistan has. Even ex-RAW officials are writing books on the lost glory and de-fanging of RAW. Most of all RAW does not have access to stingers - and they were used against India in Kargil. How does TTP get hold of them ? And the best reason I have for RAW being not involved - If that was the case Pakistan Army would have moved much-much faster into Swat/Buner. Who wants to lose to India ?


I think it is a case of not facing the reality as muse is saying. Indian opinion is pretty close to what it is in the "open letter". New York Times is worried that Taliban is joining Punjabi militants and making a move down south into Punjab

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/asia/14punjab.html?scp=3&sq=pakistan&st=cse

 

[Xeric]

Not as off topic as you think. Mumbai was never taken over - that incident is similar to Lahore. The state apparatus remains intact, elections are on, people go about their job and most importantly people remain unarmed.

A better comparison is Kashmir. The combined might of Pakistani cannonfire across the borders and the terrorists guns and bombs could not convince Indian Army to negotiate a treaty or to accede to Pakistani demands. The only thing that will change the status, if at all, will be peaceful negotiations.
What causes Pakistani Army to not be able to impose the constitution in Swat ? Why can't Army enter Buner which is halfway inside the territory (not a border area by any stretch)? How difficult is it to shut down an FM station ?

I don't think RAW is involved in this - if it is so easy to take over parts of Pakistan, India would be in Islamabad by now. No one in India has a mighty opinion of the RAW as Pakistan has. Even ex-RAW officials are writing books on the lost glory and de-fanging of RAW. Most of all RAW does not have access to stingers - and they were used against India in Kargil. How does TTP get hold of them ? And the best reason I have for RAW being not involved - If that was the case Pakistan Army would have moved much-much faster into Swat/Buner. Who wants to lose to India ?


I think it is a case of not facing the reality as muse is saying. Indian opinion is pretty close to what it is in the "open letter". New York Times is worried that Taliban is joining Punjabi militants and making a move down south into Punjab

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/asia/14punjab.html?scp=3&sq=pakistan&st=cse

Enigma

The only thing that "pinches" you, is reality. It's the isdlamist terrorist talib who have wrested control of Swat from Pakistan, It's the Islamist Terrorist talib who have defeat the pakistan army and taken control of Waziristan but since reality is a problem for you, you feel a "pinch" as you say, from imaginary foes, because in the real foes you either find to difficult to deal with or are will soon "adapt" to use AM's terminology.

If you really had all that CI experience, how is that you did not answer the question posed?? How is it that the question did not occur to you in the first place??

How is it that army signal corp has not been able to block a simple FM signal for the past 8 years? What's really going on?

Now, it might be OK with you that the people of Pakistan pay with their lives for some deep strategy, others are not embued with your certitude and unquestioning mind - CI and a unquestioning mind, do those really go together?

i am not replying to you both now, i m writing something important. Wait for you turn

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A better comparison is Kashmir.

If your comparison is with FATA then i do not think Kashmir is an apt comparison. The ideology, tribal dynamics and social structure of FATA are vastly different from Kashmir, as is the fluid nature of the Pak-Afghan border.

Pakistan does not have over 500,000 plus troops in FATA either.

This is not meant to be an excuse for Pakistan's failures in FATA, just a clarification on why the two situations are not analogous.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

since reality is a problem for you, you feel a "pinch" as you say,from imaginary foes, because in the real foes you either find to difficult to deal with or are will soon "adapt" to use AM's terminology.

imaginary lol you should read news tell me was "1971"
just an imagination heck some of my famly members were was even tried by mujib after dhaka fall (which by the way indeed had a big time "imaginary foe" behind it ) many of us left East pakistan in utter disgust and came down to u.k ,u.s,canada,france mid-east all this for just some plain and simple "imginary" stuff, tell me the thousands of people who left karachi in the 90's after the RAW funded episode begun was indeed some wild imagination right? no it was not get your facts right sir'

 

[muse]

Wait for you turn

Presumbaly something as important as your previous post? Spare me, genius. Stick to attempts to obscure.

 

[muse]

Genborza


That was 1971 -- let me say it again, 1971 - some of you guys really do have a problem with reality - you are either stuck in the past, or looking for a future utopia -

Karachi in the 90's a game fro R&AW - sure aboujt as much as it was for ISI and ethnic politicians and the politics of IDENTITY.

Do try and focus - Bunera district in Pakhtunkhwa, hwere Pakistani law may no longer be sovereign - Swat wghere Pakistani Majlis has signed away it's sovereignty and Waziristan wherfe no need for political and leghal niceties is required - Waziristan is simply not Pakistan - do focus.

How has this happened while a huge army, an effective army, we are told, whose CI graduates (examples of which can be seen in the above posts), did not know, could not tell, that units of up 18,000 men underarms are being fed and housed, armed and trained for up to 8 years ago, at least.

How is it that an intelligence service of mythic efficiency and effectiveness has missed, has been unable to give the public concrete answers (evidence) where did the money for this come from? Who armed these? where did the arms come from? where did the groceries to feed these come from?

And ofcourse why was it not stopped? Why are the people who financed and armed these , still alive?? Why are these forces not been confronted?? Why is the Pakisytan army and govt choosing not ot engage these and abdicating it's duty towards the citizens of Pakistan??

Some of this forum do not want these sorts of question to get much air - they want you confused, your attention diverted to R&AW, Israel and Alien invaders from space -- but htese questions can save the lives of pakistanis, maybe even you or your relatives.

 

[jeypore]

It is simply amazing to me that, if one makes an argument for sake of the country, a real patriot i might add, goes on blind ears.

 

[Always Neutral]

Actually his explanation of that particular event is pretty spot on, as were some of his other points.

Can we lay off the sarcasm please? It ruins threads.

If you disagree then disagree constructively.

Actually AM,

I must say Muse observations (or sarcasm) was spot on. I guess the only mistake he may have made is not post such letter from a US or UK colonel instead of an Indian one. (I agree the indian col. letter seems to be couched in a poisonous pen)

The point about missing the forest is very apt as the topic to discuss is how Sharia was inducted in SWAT at the behest of criminals (nearly everyone use to call them RAW agents on this forum including the MODS) to be supervised by the very same criminals without the writ of the Govt. The Indian Col. may have spewed crap but Enigma with his military back ground is yet to explain how a convoy of 20 cars with heavily armed militants drove to Buner which was not in the Swat agreement and entered the city ?

He also avoids maybe not intentionally to explain how this convoy passed right in front of the gate of Punjab Regiment and were not challenged or disarmed ?

What was the reason for the PA to watch mutely ?

Suppose they had continued driving to Islamabad would the PA then challenged them ? After all the Punjab Regiment had no idea where these guys were heading to so to let them go unchallenged on the way back to seems very strange ?

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is simply amazing to me that, if one makes an argument for sake of the country, a real patriot i might add, goes on blind ears.

I am not sure I understand? Is it not possible that people disagree with the argument made, in some way?

 

[Always Neutral]

DAWN.COM | Columnists | March of the Taliban

ON Saturday, March 11, a convoy of 10 double-cabin four-wheel drive pick-up trucks loaded with Taliban armed with every description of portable weapons – Kalashnikovs, rocket launchers, heavy machine guns – drove from Daggar the headquarters of Buner district to the villages of Sohawa and Dagai in Buner.

It entered Swabi district at Jhanda village, drove through the district headquarter (the town of Swabi), drove on to the motorway, exited at Mardan, drove through the cantonment of Mardan and, showing their weapons for all to see, went on towards Malakand.

In doing the above, the Taliban broke many laws of the state of Pakistan not least those that prohibit the possession of heavy weapons; showing weapons publicly and so on. They drove through a district HQ of a district they have not yet occupied (but are well on the way sooner rather than later, given the non-governance being exhibited by the ANP non-government of the Frontier); on the federally policed motorway; through an army cantonment – as a matter of fact right past the Punjab Regimental Centre’s shopping plaza containing the usual bakery and pastry-shop run by serving soldiers – and thence through the rest of the crowded city of Mardan which is also the home of the chief minister of the province.