brotherly relationship between Pakistan and Turkey, and Khilafat Movement

[53fd]

Just when you think one can't get any more ridiculous, there comes you. Clarify how Afghan refugees are the biggest obstacle in your prosperity and prove that it's only because of Afghan refugees? It's not the refugees taking aid from every country in the world and dispense the money in their pockets, it's your politicians. And we, along with the ongoing wars, face the exact same problem in politics.

Of the 10.4 million refugees under UNHCR's mandate between 2005 and 2009, the largest numbers were being hosted by Pakistan (1,740,711), Iran (1,070,488), Syria (1,054,466), Germany (593,799), Jordan (450,756), the UNHCR's '2009 Global Trends' report reveals.

Pakistan hosted the highest number of refugees --mainly from Afghanistan -- also compared to its national economy.

As such, it hosted 745 refugees per 1 USD GDP (PPP) per capita. In 2009, one out of four refugees in the world was from Afghanistan.

Source: At-a-glance: Who takes the most refugees : World News Australia on SBS

 

[Watani]

^ Mate, surely Afghans came into Pakistan in huge numbers and I as an Afghan personally can never forget the hospitality we got especially from our Pashtun brothers across the borders, but many Afghans have tried to make a living of their own which sadly led to illegal business in some parts of Pakhtunkhwa mainly. Afghans didn't live off Pakistani government's money. Heck, even Pakistanis don't receive anything from their government, forget the refugees. The biggest monetary problem of Pakistan is corruption and the natural/physical disaster the country went through past few years, not Afghan refugees. I know both countries share very bitter 'bond' at present but that doesn't mean we both should blame LITERALLY everything on eachother. Though we can keep blaming eachother for our own shortcomings, that nonetheless will only increase the actual problem, not solve it.

 

[53fd]

^ Mate, surely Afghans came into Pakistan in huge numbers and I as an Afghan personally can never forget the hospitality we got especially from our Pashtun brothers across the borders, but many Afghans have tried to make a living of their own which sadly led to illegal business in some parts of Pakhtunkhwa mainly. Afghans didn't live off Pakistani government's money. Heck, even Pakistanis don't receive anything from their government, forget the refugees. The biggest monetary problem of Pakistan is corruption and the natural/physical disaster the country went through past few years, not Afghan refugees. I know both countries share very bitter 'bond' at present but that doesn't mean we both should blame LITERALLY everything on eachother. Though we can keep blaming eachother for our own shortcomings, that nonetheless will only increase the actual problem, not solve it.

What good have you done for us? Ever since Ghafoor Khan's time, all the way through Zahir Shah & today, you have disrespected Pakistan's territorial integrity, called the Durand Line invalid, instigated the Greater Afghanistan or Pakhtunkhwan movements in Pakistan's KPK & FATA regions, brought in your tribal clashes from Afghanistan into Pakistan with your Afghan refugees, as well as countless other problems. You have disrespected the hospitality of your Pakhtun brothers from Pakistan, & exploited the nation that has taken your people in refuge. Your president Karzai who declared the Durand Line as invalid lived in Pakistan as an Afghan refugee. Before you criticize Pakistan next time, be sure you know what you have done to Pakistan & doing to Pakistan today in the name of 'brotherhood' & neighbors.

 

[Watani]

^ What good have your own politicians done for you that you expect foreigners to? Durrand line is a major issue which both countries along with the British handled very immaturely. I agree Afghan politicians should have either tried harder in a respectable manner or either just let go of it, which they didn't and even Pakistani government wasn't less. And who disrespected their fellow Pashtuns? Do you even know that a huge majority of Afghans who fled to Pakhtunkhwa still live in poor circumstances in Pakhtunkhwa, let alone have power enough to show disrespect? Don't tell me you are taking e-Afghans as the bigger pictures? And Durrand line isn't recognized by ANY Pashtun I know of, even by many Pakistani Pashtuns. I know some very patriotic Pakistani Pashtuns who don't recognize any border between us, the tribal areas infact refused to believe Pashtuns are actually divided. And about Karzai, he is the very same sh*t which brought us into this situation, which is called politics. Pakistan isn't in this state because of unthankful Afghanis who deny any border, it's in this situation because of YOUR OWN politicians. Just like how you Pakistanis refuse to let your politicians represent you, samewise we Afghans refuse to let our politicians represent us. Control your emotion and get down to facts.

 

[53fd]

Durrand line is a major issue which both countries along with the British handled very immaturely.

Durand Line is an respected international border, & the Pakhtuns living on the Pakistan side of the border voted for the nation of Pakistan in 1947.

And Durrand line isn't recognized by ANY Pashtun I know of, even by many Pakistani Pashtuns.

You clearly haven't met any Pakthuns from KPK, or the 7 million Pakhtuns that live in Karachi alone, half the number of Pashtuns in the entire Afghanistan country. Why would Pakistani Pakhtuns want to live in Afghanistan, & go back to the Stone Age. Their loyalties lie with Pakistan, present day Afghanistan means nothing to them, as it is not the same Afghanistan mentioned in traditional Afghan poetry. Pakistani Pakhtuns want nothing to do with Afghanistan, & are probably more patriotic than any other ethnicity in Pakistan. They are well represented in all fields of life & governance in Pakistan, & live in good conditions. Why would they want to go back to the Stone Age if they opt for Afghanistan?

 

[Watani]

^ See, that's why I told you to control your emotions. I never said Pakistani Pashtuns want to live in Afghanistan, I said they recognize no border between us as in they want to feel free to visit Afghanistan and their fellow Pashtuns feel the same regarding Pakhtunkhwa. I have not only met people from Pakhtunkhwa, I have lived there as well and got them as my relatives AND friends too. When I newly joined there were infact Pashtun members in this forum as well who were very patriotic Pakistani, but felt same about Afghan Pashtuns as we did. You don't have to be eager to live in a country you want to keep ties with and from your post I can guarantee 1000% you either haven't been to Pakhtunkhwa, or either never spoke to them about this matter. Even to me Afghanistan means more than anything, but that doesn't mean I should hate Pakhtunkhwa in order to show my love for Afghanistan. That's the problem with both Pakistanis and Afghans. Some Afghans are expected to hate Pakistan in order to show loyalty to Afghanistan, and Pakistanis are expected to ditch Afghans in order to show loyalty towards Pakistan. You are a very good example of that. No more outbursts please because logic is still lacking.

 

[53fd]

the tribal areas infact refused to believe Pashtuns are actually divided.

The tribal regions have more of an Afghanistan 'character' than a Pakistani one. The FATA regions are a reflection of present day Afghanistan (in the Pashtun dominated areas of Afghanistan). The Pakhtuns in FATA live by Pakhtunwali, not by Pakistani Law. The Pakistani central government, or the provincial government of KPK does not have any authority over the FATA tribal regions. The Pakistani government never interfered in their matters from 1947 to 2002, & as a result of that, FATA became the poorest & most deprived regions of Pakistan, filled with terrorist scums coming from Afghanistan border areas & crossing into the Pakistan's tribal regions in the name of 'brotherhood' & hospitality via Pakhtunwali. KPK is governed by Pakistani Law, & most of the regions in Pakistan's other provinces have a large number of Pakhtun representation, & prosperous Pakhtuns that live by Pakistani Law willingly, & thank God everyday that they don't have to live by Pakhtunwali like what is seen in FATA & Afghanistan.

 

[53fd]

^ See, that's why I told you to control your emotions. I never said Pakistani Pashtuns want to live in Afghanistan, I said they recognize no border between us as in they want to feel free to visit Afghanistan and their fellow Pashtuns feel the same regarding Pakhtunkhwa. I have not only met people from Pakhtunkhwa, I have lived there as well and got them as my relatives AND friends too. When I newly joined there were infact Pashtun members in this forum as well who were very patriotic Pakistani, but felt same about Afghan Pashtuns as we did. You don't have to be eager to live in a country you want to keep ties with and from your post I can guarantee 1000% you either haven't been to Pakhtunkhwa, or either never spoke to them about this matter. Even to me Afghanistan means more than anything, but that doesn't mean I should hate Pakhtunkhwa in order to show my love for Afghanistan. That's the problem with both Pakistanis and Afghans. Some Afghans are expected to hate Pakistan in order to show loyalty to Afghanistan, and Pakistanis are expected to ditch Afghans in order to show loyalty towards Pakistan. You are a very good example of that. No more outbursts please because logic is still lacking.

I have been to both KPK & FATA regions many times, lived in Pekhawar, & I probably know more Pakhtuns from there than probably you do, who I interact with regularly. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You clearly haven't met the Pakistani Pakhtuns that don't want to do anything with Afghanistan, who see the Afghan Pashtuns as a huge nuisance. Go to Hayatabad, or Bannu; & talk to the Pakistani Pakhtuns there, & see what they have to say about Afghan Pashtuns & their kidnappings, dacoity, & other petty crimes in the regions. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Watani]

^ Even in Afghanistan only the tribal areas live by Pakhtunwali, not the entire country! And whatever you accuse Afghans of in tribal areas of Pakistan, same could be said about Pakistanis in tribal areas of Afghanistan. Don't be ridiculous and tell me that Afghans have been coming and going to Pakistani tribal areas only since 2002 just to spread terrorism, or that Pakistani tribal areas refuse Pakistani laws 'because Afghans tell them to' as that makes your claim even more baseless than it already is. For goodness' sake do some research on facts.

And my family lives in Hayatabad and I have visited several times even after coming to Europe. One of my friends is from Bannu who regularly visits his family back home and all others are from tribal areas. Lie as much as you want to, bearing in mind that hatred and lies ain't good for your health.

 

[53fd]

^ Even in Afghanistan only the tribal areas live by Pakhtunwali, not the entire country! And whatever you accuse Afghans of in tribal areas of Pakistan, same could be said about Pakistanis in tribal areas of Afghanistan. Don't be ridiculous and tell me that Afghans have been coming and going to Pakistani tribal areas only since 2002 just to spread terrorism, or that Pakistani tribal areas refuse Pakistani laws 'because Afghans tell them to' as that makes your claim even more baseless than it already is. For goodness' sake do some research on facts.

When did I say that all the Afghan (Pashtun dominated) areas live by Pashtunwali? As far as I know, all the Afghan refugees come into the FATA regions of Pakistan, not the other way around. In fact, families that have been separated by the Durand Line; the Pakistani Pakhtun side calls the Afghan side of their families to live in FATA, not the other way around. Taliban, who are ethnic Afghans, took refuge in Pakistan's FATA region after 2002. Before 2002, the Afghan Pashtuns who came into Pakistan didn't bring terrorism, but they did bring kidnappings, smuggling, dacoity and other petty crimes into the cities of Pakistan. No one said Pakistan's FATA regions refuse to adopt Pakistani Laws & adopt Pakhtunwali because Afghans tell them to, I never even insinuated that, but traditionally, the FATA regions of Pakistan have been very 'out of the loop' from mainstream Pakistan, the Pakhtuns from FATA have their families separated by the Durand Line. There are many Pakhtuns in FATA who do not want to be separated from their relatives & families by the Durand Line. These Pakhtuns are more 'traditional' than the Pakhtuns from KPK, & see prosperous Pakhtuns from KPK as 'not real Pakthuns', & slaves of the Punjabis & the Pakistan central government. They see themselves as more Afghans than Pakistanis.

 

[Watani]

^ Kidnappings, robbery, etcetera are committed by Pakistanis as well, let's stay realistic. These people nonetheless should be treated harshly by the police, regardless their ethnic background because wrong is wrong. Don't rely on news channels, do a closer research regarding Taliban and see for yourself how Afghan 'all' Taliban are. Infact, how did they even find their ground, remember? And about the border, you actually just agreed to whatever I said, but in your own words. So, mate, what's the discussion about now?

 

[53fd]

^ Kidnappings, robbery, etcetera are committed by Pakistanis as well, let's stay realistic. These people nonetheless should be treated harshly by the police, regardless their ethnic background because wrong is wrong. Don't rely on news channels, do a closer research regarding Taliban and see for yourself how Afghan 'all' Taliban are. Infact, how did they even find their ground, remember? And about the border, you actually just agreed to whatever I said, but in your own words. So, mate, what's the discussion about now?

double post

 

[53fd]

^ Kidnappings, robbery, etcetera are committed by Pakistanis as well, let's stay realistic. These people nonetheless should be treated harshly by the police, regardless their ethnic background because wrong is wrong. Don't rely on news channels, do a closer research regarding Taliban and see for yourself how Afghan 'all' Taliban are. Infact, how did they even find their ground, remember? And about the border, you actually just agreed to whatever I said, but in your own words. So, mate, what's the discussion about now?

The point is that despite the countless sacrifices Pakistani Pakhtuns & the nation of Pakistan has made in accommodating Afghan Pashtuns, providing them refuge, shelter; these Afghan Pashtuns living in Pakistan still malign this nation & show a lack of respect for this country, & exploit the hospitality that Pakistan & Pakistani Pakhtuns provide in the name of 'brotherhood'.

 

[Watani]

^ If we talk politically then I am glad I met many Pakistanis who are very honest by admitting Pakistani government can be none's friend, not even their own. And that's our problem, our governments who only want disasters for one another. Your government can't even make sacrifices for it's own people, you seriously believe they did so for AFGHANISTAN? (Ours is no less of a joke either, by the way.) Why would you make sacrifices for a country which politically didn't even recognize you? Simple, your government had it's own interest which went at our cost, and today at YOURS as well. Meet me, my Afghan families, my Afghan relatives and my Afghan friends. I guarantee you that just like how we never showed disrespect towards Pakistan as a nation, majority of Afghans are in the exact same thinking. Exceptions are everywhere, we ain't no exception to exceptions. You can't judge the opinion of entire Afghan nation by a few you met who showed disrespect, and those might infact be people who never lived in Pakistan, or left as young as five years old or so, or is from north of Afghanistan whose people haven't even been to Pakistan.

And may you meet disrespectful Afghans in real life then put him in his place, seriously. No need to apply the anger on every Afghan, at every place.

 

[53fd]

And my family lives in Hayatabad and I have visited several times even after coming to Europe. One of my friends is from Bannu who regularly visits his family back home and all others are from tribal areas. Lie as much as you want to, bearing in mind that hatred and lies ain't good for your health.

Exceptions are everywhere, we ain't no exception to exceptions. You can't judge the opinion of entire Afghan nation by a few you met who showed disrespect, and those might infact be people who never lived in Pakistan, or left as young as five years old or so, or has lived in northern areas whose people haven't even been to Pakistan.

You are contradicting yourself in the two previous posts. In the first post, you slander & accuse me of lying, you probably think you know every Pakhtun of the region. In the second post, you say exceptions are everywhere. I agree, you probably met exceptions in Hayatabad, as I know what the common Pakistani Pakhtun generally thinks of the Afghan Pashtuns there. I have lived in Pekhawar for 2 years my friend, & traveled in the surrounding areas of it. I agree, I should not stereotype the attitude of all Pakistani Pakhtuns, & the same applies to you; & stop slandering others by contradicting yourself.