Bringing Islam to knees in India my dream: Thackeray

[Awesome]

No. I mean discount Iraq (which is mostly a power struggle) the answer would be no.

India's STATE has been responsible for killing Muslims. Imagine a government deciding Ok we'd kill a 1000 of our citizens who follow Islam today. When you say the majority doesn't support these people, we find it hard since Modi is still not in Jail, he got re-elected.

 

[Bull]

No. I mean discount Iraq (which is mostly a power struggle) the answer would be no.

India's STATE has been responsible for killing Muslims. Imagine a government deciding Ok we'd kill a 1000 of our citizens who follow Islam today. When you say the majority doesn't support these people, we find it hard since Modi is still not in Jail, he got re-elected.

.

Ok Asim just give it a thought. Can anybody sane or insane get up one day morning and say "ok lets kill some today". Its just not possible, where would the "urge" to do this come from. I just got up one day and thought ok "let me beat up Asim today" , would that happen? No.

There is something else that lead up to the Gujarat riots, like the Godhra incident where the kar sevaks where killed. tempers where already high much before the riots.

 

[niaz]

Tuesday, January 30, 2007

Bringing Islam to knees in India my dream: Thackeray

MUMBAI: Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray has said he dreams of a “Hindustan of Hindus” that would bring “Islam in this country down to its knees”. Addressing a massive rally at the Shiv Sena stronghold of Shivaji Park, Thackeray said, “It is my dream that we create a Hindustan of the Hindus. Maharashtrians or Punjabis alone cannot fight against Islam. That is why I appeal to all Hindus to break the linguistic wall around them and come together so that we can bring Islam in this country down to its knees.”

In his 20-minute speech, the 81-year-old Thackeray paused several times and delivered the speech sitting. Dressed in an all-white robe, he was accompanied by his son and Sena Executive President Uddhav. Thackeray, who addressed the rally in an effort to boost the prospects of the Sena-BJP combine at Mumbai civic polls on February 1, also had words of praise for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, describing him as “a staunch Hindu”. “If the reaction of the Babri Masjid demolition could reach Mumbai in the form of riots, then there is nothing wrong if the wave of the Godhra incident reached Ahmedabad. It was a spontaneous reaction and there is nothing wrong with that,” Thackeray said. sana

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\01\30\story_30-1-2007_pg1_8

Every country has her brand of Fascist parties. Bal Thakery and Narender Modi remind me of Hitler and Massolini. Islam is a 1500 old religion and even if Shiv Sena; by any stretch of imagination can coerce all Indian muslims to bring to their knees, it is not Islam which will be defeated but the mission of tolerance and non violence preached by Mahatma Gandhi.

As I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that it is a great irony that in the birth of place of the Mahatma, now rules a party which was responsible for his murder.

Just to get record straight. Nathoo Ram Godsey was a fully paid up member of RSS. Both LK Advani and Vajpai are also fully flegded members of RSS. BJP is a party ( simmilar to MMA) which is actually a result of all Hinduvta parties coming together. Component parts are RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc with some other anti Muslim parties such as Akali Dal supporting them in Punjab. As late as 1985, there were only a couple of members of this fascist party in the Indian parliament. It was only the Babri mosque incident and LK Advani Rath Yatra to Ayodhia that it became a major political force.
This speach appears to be on similar pattern.

BJP represents highly class Hindu voter ( Tilak, Trazu aur Talwar i,e, Brahman, Banya and Khatri) and is against low caste Hindus, Christian, Muslims and all minorities.

I am astounded as to why educated middle class Indian voter can elect such bigoted party to power. It is still too early, it may be a minor aberration and despite being a Pakistani, I respect Indian intellegentia and am convinced that a secular India, to which many great muslim leaders such as Maulana Mohammad Ali Jauhar and Maulana Abu Kalaam Azad were a party will survive.

 

[Bull]

it is not Islam which will be defeated but the mission of tolerance and non violence preached by Mahatma Gandhi.

I am astounded as to why educated middle class Indian voter can elect such bigoted party to power.

Thats what i said in the previous post, there were severe under currents before the riots. Riots werent an accident nor was Modi's re-election.

 

[Contrarian]

BJP was in rule for a long time in the center, and nothing like this ever happened. Gujarat and Babri were aberrations. BJP is a party that has its ideals, i too will vote for BJP this time, though i am a stead-fast Congress supporter, because of their policies. I feel Congress takes National Defence too lightly. I feel BJP was firmer on these things. They had the guts to goto the border with the army. Something that i feel the congress cannot accomplish. They are too light on terrorists, etc, etc. BJP would spend a very good amount on the Armed Forces, get the best weapons for them , etc, etc. Congress is shy on that.

Well...im still in half minds, lets see what the situation bcomes.

People vote because of policies of the govt. BJP as a whole is not like that. Its some stupid leaders. Thackeray is almost dead, Modi will be voted out most likely this time. If Advani becomes the prime contender for PM's post, then i will not vote for them. Everything depends on the policies they take.

 

[Contrarian]

You are insulting me and the other Hindus by clubbing us with the guys like Thackeray.

Very true

 

[Awesome]

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Ok Asim just give it a thought. Can anybody sane or insane get up one day morning and say "ok lets kill some today". Its just not possible, where would the "urge" to do this come from. I just got up one day and thought ok "let me beat up Asim today" , would that happen? No.

There is something else that lead up to the Gujarat riots, like the Godhra incident where the kar sevaks where killed. tempers where already high much before the riots.

So you are saying their is justification in the murder of 2000 Muslims by the Indian Government in 2002?

Was any justice served by raping women and cutting open their pregnant bellies? The Indian-made (by a guy with a Hindu name) documentary, The Final Solution (available on Google Videos) shines a light into what happened. The name is quite apt, putting Hindutva at par with WW2 antagonists, the Nazis.

 

[Introvert]

Was any justice served by raping women and cutting open their pregnant bellies? T.

Omg How worst can anyone get that this. Some ppl have no feelings for others whatsoever. If this heinous crime was committed against someone, I hope that person receives the most severe punishment there is.

 

[Spring Onion]

Wasnt curfew imposed in paksitan too bcoz there were fears of sunni-shia clash.
Conflicts are there, dont try to paint it in such a way as to make us look like doing something out of the world.

We have issues and we fight with each other. But that doesnt mean you start making calls for a seperate nations..

That is Bull i dint say that we dont have issues. every nation has her own problems, the same problem everywhere in different shap.

What i was talking abt wasnt the curefew its the difference between Muslims and Hindus and their believes, Those Muslims who preffered to stay in India now if they are being killed just for transporting cows or slaughtering cows thn u can imagine whts the use of being secular if India can not gaurd the minorities and their believes.

Whats the big deal? He said something and people protested to it.

Yeh Bull thn whats the big deal if Iranian president say something

 

[Contrarian]

So you are saying their is justification in the murder of 2000 Muslims by the Indian Government in 2002?

Was any justice served by raping women and cutting open their pregnant bellies? The Indian-made (by a guy with a Hindu name) documentary, The Final Solution (available on Google Videos) shines a light into what happened. The name is quite apt, putting Hindutva at par with WW2 antagonists, the Nazis.

Asim, noone is saying its justified, i think every one here has made it amply clear that we all think that hte Gujarat riots were disgusting and inhumane. THe thing is these are one-off incidents, and is not what regularly happens.

Gujarat riots were more than simple riots, they had some other issues, like Bull mentioned, the incident at godhra, and i can assure you the entire country barring Gujarat hated Modi for doing this. Rest assured, something like this is unlikely to ever happen again, the govt has learned its lesson at the center.

Yeh Bull thn whats the big deal if Iranian president say something

He is not PM of India. He is an almost dead political leader of yesteryears, who is just trying to gain attention. He is down and he is out, these are his last attempts. He is over 80years old, i think you know what this means.

 

[Spring Onion]

He is not PM of India. He is an almost dead political leader of yesteryears, who is just trying to gain attention. He is down and he is out, these are his last attempts. He is over 80years old, i think you know what this means.

Malay everyone knows that thakray is trying to cash the emotion for election but sayign that hez over 80 years so he can not stire the fundamentalist feelings in Hinuds is also wrong. His party might not get many seats in the election but being a fundamentalist he can and is creating hatred among Hindus against Muslims and you can understand what happens in such a case only Muslims suffer.

 

[Bull]

So you are saying their is justification in the murder of 2000 Muslims by the Indian Government in 2002?

Was any justice served by raping women and cutting open their pregnant bellies? The Indian-made (by a guy with a Hindu name) documentary, The Final Solution (available on Google Videos) shines a light into what happened. The name is quite apt, putting Hindutva at par with WW2 antagonists, the Nazis.

I didnt say there was justifying reasons. you are putting words into my mouth. I said riots happened bcoz of lots of reasons.

things like what you said happen and thats why riots are not welcomed in any society.

 

[Bull]

Those Muslims who preffered to stay in India now if they are being killed just for transporting cows or slaughtering cows thn u can imagine whts the use of being secular if India can not gaurd the minorities and their believes

Its more than just transporting cows or eating beef. hell most of the hindus eat meat.

There are a lot of reason and not national reasons like babri masjid and not even Godhra. Godhra was a trigger. It was fuming much before that.

Have you ever wondered why gujarat riots were localised ones unlike the previous riots? When babri masjid was destroyed hell broke losee everywhere.

When 3000 were killed in gujarat the remaining states remained calm.

Yeh Bull thn whats the big deal if Iranian president say something

If you dont understand the difference by yourself , then i dont think you will understand even if i explain.

 

[niaz]

I know that most members wouldnt like my comments but I am going to say it anyway.

In my opinion there is a basic inhuman or animal streak inherent in people in general but of the subcontinent in particular. It is like "Id" of the 'Frued' which is kept in check by the "Ego'. A slight excuse and man on the street turns into an inhuman animal. Let me cite actual occurrances in the subcontinent in my life time.

1. Partition.

No one can deny that what happened during the partition was horrifc. Both Muslims and Sikh in Punjab ( Can't about other regions) turned into animals and killed each other in millions. The event was summed up very nicely by the Sikh poetess Amrita Preetam in a Punjabi poem where she addresses Waris Shah.

I used to know many families in Karachi who were caught up in trains coming to Pakistan attacked by Sikhs. Similary, attacks on Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistani Punjab were equally shameful and I am sure there must be similar families on other side of the border who suffered a lot.

3. Anti Qadiani riots in Pakistani Punjab in 50's.

3. Anti muslim riots in India in Jabalpur in 1960.

4. Events in East Pakistan ( Bangla Desh) during early 1971. I saw a photo of Pakistani Depty Comissioner being be-headed by Mukti Bahini in the New York Times. ( I was on trip to US at that time)

5. Killing off nearly 10,000 Sikhs in Delhi in the aftermath of murder of Indra Gandhi. An englishman colleague of mine was in Delhi at the time and he actually cried when he described what he saw. All this just because Rajiv Gandhi said " I dont want to see Sardarjis in Delhi".

6. Riots following Babri mosque incident. ( My hats off to Lalu Parshad, Bihar was the only state where the disturbance was minimal.)

7.Gujrat riots after Godhra incident. Was there really a need to dig up the grave of the Urdu poet "Wali Dakhni" in Ahmedabad and fill it with asphalt among other things. ???

8. Targetting of Shia doctors by Laskar Jhangvi in 80's in Pakistan.

9. Sindhi - Mohajir riots in Karachi and hyderbad during Bhutto's regime.

10. Attack by Pathans on Biharis under the governership of Jehandad Khan in the mid 80's which resulted un the formation of MQM.

This has led me to conclude that civilization on the South Asians is only skin deep. A slight scratch and the animal within is awakened, which performs acts which cannot be otherewise explained.

Unfortunately, it is a fact that manjority always ends up on the winning side. Even though Indian muslims outnumber Pakistani muslims; being a minority; always end on the receiving end. Similarly, Shias number approx 30-million in Pakistan ( 15 - 20 &#37, being in the minority always end up losers.

What is worse is that even after 60 years, anti muslim speaches by the likes of Bal Thakery can still be effective vote getter.

In Pakistan virtually every protest march turns into a mob bent upon mindless destruction and an excuse to destroy public and private property for no rhyme or reason.

I am not saying that other nations are any better, but being a Pakistani and a South Asian, I am more concerned about this region. It is my hope and pray that first and foremost we become more tolerant human beings.

It seems that message of non voilence of Gandhi Jee and the teaching of our holy Prophet (PBUH) (Islam means peace) is lost on most of their followers.

 

[Bull]

6. Riots following Babri mosque incident. ( My hats off to Lalu Parshad, Bihar was the only state where the disturbance was minimal.).

Even my state was peacefull and not only that till now it hasnt had any major communal clashes.