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BREAKING: PAF base Mianwali under attack, suicide bombers and heavy weapons in use

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It is not a matter of views; it is a matter of honest analysis.

The General is tasked with one and only one task; he makes and own the strategy.
He is not supposed to pick up the rifle, he is not supposed to go guerilla.
He is supposed to use his brain, and own the bloody strategy; secondly he has to ensure the middle management
can translate that strategy effectively into tactical level wins.

If the loop of looking at lessons learned, and changing as per the lessons is not implemented, the generals need to be fired
and the next batch needs to be trained accordingly.

A very long time ago, in a conversation with an ex-Brazilian diplomat who was waxing lyrical about America’s ability to protect its bases in Afghanistan, I invited him to think through in his mind what it would take to ensure bullet proof security for 1 sq km of land - a square with sides of 1 km each. He thought for a while, and didn’t come up with a response.

America had motion sensors and mines guarding its bases, and there were animals missing one leg running around. Terrorists could trigger defences using animals until the guardsmen lowered their attention and then strike. This is basic human psychology.

The fact of the matter is that there simply isn’t such a thing as fool proof security for large infrastructure. The best you can do is respond quickly. Compare the response time of Pakistani security to the Indians where operations are still going on days later.

What stops enemies from going after your infrastructure is the threat of massive counter strike as punishment. This has been missing so far.

On a different note, when the perpetrators are your own countrymen hell bent on destroying their own country, like the May 9 mob, the army really only has two options: let them satisfy their emotions or fire at its own people. The army chose the first and now when sisters of miscellaneous libturds are being arrested, the remaining libturds are feeling the pain. My advice: use a cactus up your b*tt holes.
 
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The sheds were close to the perimeter walls. You usually have your ORP or at MM Alam your daily use OCU aircraft under sunshades and not in HAS.

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The snakes in Faganistan are involved as always. Deport their A55es at earliest
But how easily can you transport a team of 10+ and heavy weapons quite deep into the country without any checks. Security is total Shambles unless they have people inside.
 
Home grown jihadi outfits once again turning on their erstwhile masters. Likely in retaliation for PAK military role in drone bombings with supplying gps coordinates.

But Pak military attaches feverishly trying to find links to India, only way to hide incompetence and embarrassment.

Not withstanding what PAF & ISPR admit, question is - why would they keep retiring aircraft in a training center and that too in hangar. More likely that training is conducted on more recently inducted or due to be inducted aircraft.
You realise that both what you mentioned can be true as well as a link with India? (which has been historically proven already)

This is always how an insurgency works, you exploit existing problems or fault lines using sectarian or ethnic issues
 
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A very long time ago, in a conversation with an ex-Brazilian diplomat who was waxing lyrical about America’s ability to protect its bases in Afghanistan, I invited him to think through in his mind what it would take to ensure bullet proof security for 1 sq km of land - a square with sides of 1 km each. He thought for a while, and didn’t come up with a response.

America had motion sensors and mines guarding its bases, and there were animals missing one leg running around. Terrorists could trigger defences using animals until the guardsmen lowered their attention and then strike. This is basic human psychology.

The fact of the matter is that there simply isn’t such a thing as fool proof security for large infrastructure. The best you can do is respond quickly. Compare the response time of Pakistani security to the Indians where operations are still going on days later.

What stops enemies from going after your infrastructure is the threat of massive counter strike as punishment. This has been missing so far.

On a different note, when the perpetrators are your own countrymen hell bent on destroying their own country, like the May 9 mob, the army really only has two options: let them satisfy their emotions or fire at its own people. The army chose the first and now when sisters of miscellaneous libturds are being arrested, the remaining libturds are feeling the pain. My advice: use a cactus up your b*tt holes.

To me your analysis is lethargic at best.

You are subsidizing the need of good first level detection and defense, to responding quickly !
That is absurd.

how many bases did the americans loose ?

and if the countrymen are hell bent on destroying their own country, one has to ask WHY ?
What has brought them down to that level ?
What happened in past, that is still happening to date, that these people went astray ?
 
America had motion sensors and mines guarding its bases, and there were animals missing one leg running around. Terrorists could trigger defences using animals until the guardsmen lowered their attention and then strike. This is basic human psychology.

The fact of the matter is that there simply isn’t such a thing as fool proof security for large infrastructure. The best you can do is respond quickly. Compare the response time of Pakistani security to the Indians where operations are still going on days later.

What stops enemies from going after your infrastructure is the threat of massive counter strike as punishment. This has been missing so far.
Exactly the part in bold, offense is the best defence.

I mean when a group can continously carry out attacks without fear of retaliation then what message does that subconsciously give them?

- Builds morale
- Builds confidence
- Emboldens them further
- Makes you look weak/coward
- They become more aggressive because you present yourself as an easy target

I don't understand how sitting on their asses, keep getting attacked, mocked by everyone, then flexing how they "repelled" it, does anything. They just make themselves look like fools and easy target.

Pakistan military is essentially like that big kid that gets bullied by the small kid, the small kid continues to get more aggressive because big kid doesn't choke slam tf out of him to remind him of his place. Most big kids (example Turkey) would defend themselves but he doesn't.
 
To me your analysis is lethargic at best.

You are subsidizing the need of good first level detection and defense, to responding quickly !
That is absurd.

how many bases did the americans loose ?

and if the countrymen are hell bent on destroying their own country, one has to ask WHY ?
What has brought them down to that level ?
What happened in past, that is still happening to date, that these people went astray ?

I gave you a reality check. And also, we haven’t lost any airbase. Do with this what you want, the armed forces have no obligation to placate your whining.

And the morons in Pakistan are high on Imran Khan’s old socks. They are being treated, one moron at a time. It takes time. The first step was obviously to put Imran Khan’s stinky feet behind bars, sans any socks he could contaminate with his stink.
 
Exactly, they were standing on the flight line bunched up for AT LEAST 3 minutes and could fire off an RPG on video, and then go to the ATC tower apron (in daytime), and were not countered at all. I saw a twitter post which had the timeline of fire heard, and there was no resistance for about 40 minutes IIRC. How can a professional force let this go on at your own friggin airbase?

Pathetic. Although perimeter security is responsibility of DSG. Same stuff happened at Kamra, blame was being passed around like a ping pong.

I mean how hard is it to have an SOP where you do a radio check every 5 minutes with all sentries? Or NRTC or the NASTP or heck even a 3rd year intern can create a system where you have to tap a button to check in with command every 5 minutes.

Electrified fencing, live CCTV footage, heck there is even open source computer vision now.

Shambles.
Yep, I have seen a new video just today where the militants were sitting inside a section, I presume it was MET Sqdn since this is the same building most of these were encountered and killed as seen later in a post op video surfaced on social media. The same guy who shot the video hitting the aircraft was shooting (video) himself this time and was briefing about the entire operation while 02 airmen were lying martyred below him, they were the night duty staff for sure without weapons. He spoke for at least 4 mins and also gives timestamp on the video which according to him was 7 AM. So, you can have an idea they entered the base around 3 AM and were unopposed until 7 AM at least, he tells they were 7 guys and all were alive by then, a couple other teammates can also be seen with him in defensive positions in the same room. That is 4 hrs.

The perimeter security is also largely controlled by PAF since a few years now, DSG is limited to tarmac mostly wahan bhe esa nahi hai k 20 bande hote hen, 2-4 he hote hen and any towers that can not be manned by PAF due to lack of men. Kamra was a different story, during that time perimeter was 70% DSG responsibility, since then PAF has worked a lot on increasing its strength to man perimeters itself.

It is an SOP to do SITREPs every few mins or 30 mins at least but there could be complications to that with respect to the time the militants chose to intrude, during this time usually PAF carries out contigency or usual fire training and it may have coincided with that eventually benefiting them.

I would 100% expect them to have electrified fences at least, I mean you have millions of dollars of assets inside, you can spend on your lavish parties and 2024 model double cabins but can't afford electric fences? Just shows non seriousness on top level.

Very sad. So were the sentries not even engaged?

Also, shameful and pathetic on part of PAF and ISPR not to even acknowledge them and then have the audacity to say 'Alhamdolillah'.

I really do not care about the jets or the PR disaster or incursion, but your soldiers got shaheed from a terrorist attack at your base and you do not even acknowledge that?

Woh to choro, you write 'Alhamdolillah'? Beghairti ki had hai.

I have no idea how this incident unfolded, but I fear that maybe PAF did not even know there was an incursion until they got to the flight line.
Exactly that is my point, they had no idea there was an intrusion until they started destroying their aircrafts, after the first boom they may have started wondering what was happening then the usual sitreps confirmation and then you find out something is wrong, it could easily take 20-30 mins at least but they were sitting very chill in the MET Sqdn building at 7 AM which is 4 hrs later. So there was no action until 4 hrs.
All the martyrs as far as I know were from technical branches doing usual night duties and these guys don't have weapons.

Just seen some stills, can you share if possible.

Just seen some stills, can you share if possible.
Chilling after destroying the aircrafts at 7 AM.
 
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Alright, we need to have a conversation about the terrorist video. We have all terrorists killed, yet only in a few hours they publish a video? How is this possible?

First possibility: the video is a fake. When you have enemies with state resources such as India and Taliban, it is easy to construct some sheds, put up model aircraft and show a shooting party at night.

At the very least, the claim of 35 aircrafts is completely false. The physical size of an airbase is a component of its security. Other than during exercises, no one parks 35 aircraft so close to each other that men can walk/run to them and destroy them.
This is what manually destroying 35 aircraft looks like. You start with full intel on the locations of the aircraft and the road infrastructure you will use to access them. Within the first 30 mins you need to acquire transport. You then methodically visit the locations and plant charges that are either timed or remotely triggered. So far, no gun fights or rocket launchers. You are doing this because you DON’T want to jeopardise the mission by drawing attention to yourself.

This laughable ‘operation’ reeks of amateurism and is more show than substance. The dead bodies shown can be any dead bodies in a uniform.
But there is a second possibility. The video is genuine. Which raises a very uncomfortable question: how was the video transmitted? Was mobile phone access allowed during the time the terrorists were conducting ops? If yes, why wasn’t triangulation used to pin point their location and track their movements? Was there an internet connected Wi-fi router nearby which the terrorists used? Did they use satellite phones? Or were there accomplices outside the base and the perpetrators left signal boosters along the way and the accomplices easily got away from the scene? What communication equipment was retrieved from the dead bodies? Can the sims be traced to owners?

But in any case, the claim of destroying 35 aircrafts is bogus. Airbases do place retired/dummy aircraft in easily identifiable positions to confuse enemy bombers and create clutter for hostiles trying to identify targets. Probably the terrorists succeeded in destroying these. Well done! You have now given us advance warning that there is more to come, and provided us the moral high ground for retaliatory action. You have also given us DNA that can be analysed. And you will find, Insha Allah, that this is no longer a Pakistan run by the Bajwa Khan Traitorship (BKT).
You can clearly identify the militant shooting the video to one of the dead bodies showcased by PAF post op. So, I guess the video is genuine.
As far as transmitting the video is concerned, do you really believe Pakistan as a country is capable of technologically doing everything you have mentioned in the possibility paragraph? I would have nodded for US maybe not for Pakistan, We are way behind in doing that though Mianwali's internet and cellular access is suspended as of now even but there's no way it could be done under 5 mins of the attack. They had ample time to shoot the video and transmit it through whatsapp or whatever. They were in the base unopposed for 3-4 hrs at least.
 
Dude all day long you have been repeating same lines with same images. An aircraft burning in the middle of the night will be seen from miles let alone 3 or 4. And do you know when an aircraft burns , how much are gets affected with smoke and fire .... take a look at the these images and one burning under a shed would be even more severe.

View attachment 968260View attachment 968261

Bro, this is futile discussion to somehow prove that level of destruction was low or high. I said what I honestly concluded from the video and sat imagery. I converted the video to frame by frame motion and saw with my own god damn eyes that destruction is way more than what ISPR is claiming. It should be no surprise given ISPR history and how they reacted to their failure.

Now let's see the bare bones of what really happened. We need to understand and focus on the most critical point.

1) Intel Failure / ISI's & intel agencies epic failure

The job of intel agencies is to "foil" the attack before it happens. They should have been all ears and eyes, They should have knew something is cooking up and they should have got them before it happened. But what really happened is Terrorists came right in the center of the Punjab, They brought weapons, they attacked a secure location, a god damn airbase.

Just Imagine the reach of the terrorists. Imagine for a moment that these terrorists are attacking the most secure locations, how easy it has become for these terrorists to attack soft targets like public places, schools or markets ? Do you understand the scale of reach / logistical capabilities of these terror networks that have re-developed once again. If terrorists can hit security forces at their bases which is their home then they can hit anyone in the country. There are 2 back to back attacks on security forces. Terrorists are not targeting ordinary people, they have become emboldened. They are hitting SFs where they sit at.

Even if Security forces would have eliminated these terrorists at outer perimeter it would have been still an epic failure of intelligence agencies. They failed miserably.

2) Epic Failure of physical security

Now we discussed how serious and massive intelligence failure it was. That they were able to reach at airforce base outer perimeter with all their gear. They were able to penetrate right into the base. Forget about aircraft losses or personal losses. The moment those terrorists with RPGs walked on the tarmac, is the moment they made a complete joke out of Pakistan's armed forces. They made videos, they fired RPGs, they did commentary on the videos like they had all the time in the world to do whatever they like and they sent those videos back to their handlers, they got all the success they could have dreamed of. Obviously they knew they were coming on one-way trip. These terrorists always knew that attacking such bases is one-way trip. They don't care for their lives because of their some F--ked up ideaology. They are disposables, Terrorists have unlimited supply of these foot soldiers. Their lives really don't matter. You killing them is ZERO success. They already accomplished their mission, when they entered. Its not only the material value that matters here, Its huge symbolic meanings. Such attacks with videos and all emboldens rest of the entire army of those terrorists. They become role models for other recruits of those terror networks. Your mission as security forces is to foil the attack before it happens. You fail when enemy knocks at your door and even breaches it.


3) Epic Failture in POST-attack reaction by ISPR

Now the least expected from the ISPR and airforce were to accept their mistakes. They should have issued statements that we are investigating and criminal negligence will be severely punished. But what they posted "high professionalism", "unwavering commitment", and all of the crap we are fed for 75 years. I mean, who could be incompetent enough to post such a response ? Do they think such statements do any better except its a ridiculing yourself further deep.

There is another deep down problem with such response. Even if Military thinks that they will say those "high professionalism", "great success to foil the attack" or rubbish like that to the nation and media but internally will carry out the investigation and reforms then that's massively faulty approach. If that's your mindset, you have already set your course to the failure. You will never have the pressure, the urgency, the need to introspect as if your career is in line when you already have told everyone that you did bravo, 10/10 and you were successful and you have convinced yourself that too with photo-ops and fake congratulatory tweets. This is height of incompetency.

We as a nation must not shy to accept our failures at official level. That is only way as a beginning for rectification. Otherwise these failures will continue for many more decades and we will keep covering them up. Another criticial aspect is that you lose all the respect and reputation when you lie with the straight face to the nation. People aren't fool really, you are fooling nobody except yourselves.
 
You can clearly identify the militant shooting the video to one of the dead bodies showcased by PAF post op. So, I guess the video is genuine.
As far as transmitting the video is concerned, do you really believe Pakistan as a country is capable of technologically doing everything you have mentioned in the possibility paragraph? I would have nodded for US maybe not for Pakistan, We are way behind in doing that though Mianwali's internet and cellular access is suspended as of now even but there's no way it could be done under 5 mins of the attack. They had ample time to shoot the video and transmit it through whatsapp or whatever. They were in the base unopposed for 3-4 hrs at least.

I think the idea of how to create a fake video escapes you. IF it is fake, there is a possibility they used the guys who were going to carry out the attack as the actors. It is SOP in ops done for propaganda to film the militants saying/doing things that forward the propaganda before the actual operation so the video can be used to show success. It does not prove anything.

Pakistan certainly has the capability, the question is if it was made part of SOP to respond to critical situations, and whether the SOP was carried out effectively. Now there’s a security failure I will acknowledge.
 
It is not a matter of views; it is a matter of honest analysis.

The General is tasked with one and only one task; he makes and own the strategy.
He is not supposed to pick up the rifle, he is not supposed to go guerilla.
He is supposed to use his brain, and own the bloody strategy; secondly he has to ensure the middle management
can translate that strategy effectively into tactical level wins.

If the loop of looking at lessons learned, and changing as per the lessons is not implemented, the generals need to be fired
and the next batch needs to be trained accordingly.
Detailing and improving business processes requires heaps of documentation and I doubt our FA pass army can even write.

Our countrymen even the educated ones have a rabid response to anything that needs writing down because it requires critical thinking.
 
I think the idea of how to crate a fake video escapes you. IF it is fake, there is a possibility they used the guys who were going to carry in the attack as the actors. It is SOP in ops done for propaganda to film the militants saying/doing things that forward the propaganda before the actual operation so the video can be used to show success. It does not prove anything.

Pakistan certainly has the capability, the question is if it was made part of SOP to respond to critical situations, and whether the SOP was carried out effectively. Now there’s a security failure I will acknowledge.
I was like you 5 years ago and I have no shame admitting I was stupid.
We need to come out of bollywood fantasies brother. This is not a movie.
There is a second video of the militants from around 7 AM where they are sitting inside a building while 2 of our guys are lying dead in their feet in cold blood in uniforms. The militant also shows outside for a brief 2-3 seconds and you can see the runway.
 
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