Breaking China's DF-21D missile kill chain: US expert

[shuttler]

a gerald ford cvn is costing $13.5 billion - what a whopper!

 

[420canada]

Gambit sir, how many air defense missiles dose an Aegis ship. if you do not mind me asking

 

[shuttler]

Not stop, but seduce/distract. Assume an AWACS overhead to alert the ship of this incoming wave of Chinese CM. The ship would then project an EM wall and an IR blanket, each covering hundreds or even thousands of km/sq, well before any CM could achieve sensor lock..

we dont need to fire many shots. the crewmen will all be wiped out sooner or later by self created radiation and the contaminated vessels

No, not one thousand cruise missiles. One thousand glide bombs.

Find out the unit cost of the SDB.

An Arleigh Burke is well over $1 billion.

SDBs are quite cheap @ $40 grand a piece made in usa

the A Burke is close to $ 2 billion. well worth the kill by our rain of bombs and missiles

 

[j20blackdragon]

SDBs are quite cheap @ $40 grand a piece made in usa

the A Burke is close to $ 2 billion. well worth the kill by our rain of bombs and missiles

Exactly.

And then there's the cost of the carrier.

And the cost of the air wing.

And the cost of the crew.

 

[Mitro]

I think China is heading to the right direction and combining different technology and making completely new system with modern electronics is amazing .Df-21D missile is one of them ,Ballistic missile with Own Seeker and can communicate with Aircraft like Awacs ,Drone and satellite to get direction towards the target and once target is close enough to on its own seeker and destroy it .
If used in quantity it can easily over power any defence's of a aircraft carrier.
Travelling @ 6 - 7 mac it can reach the target in less then 30 minutes if the target is around 1000 KM in case of Aircraft carrier it may have moved to 20-30 KM .

Old concept but with new technology and with Lots of money to spend on research when US is already reducing its number and budget .

 

[jhungary]

One of the more common criticism, based on ignorance, is that China succeeded where the US failed. The ignorance here is that the US could not design such a weapon because the US is bound by the Inter-mediate Nuclear Forces Treaty...

Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...Which is based solely upon range and comprehensive to all payload types. Since China was never a signatory, China can build a nuclear ballistic missile within that range. But it is clear to all that these guys really have no interested in learning. If the US wanted, we could design and build a truly effective version faster than China can.

Actually, DOD have issued studies after Chinese alleged succeed on intercepting ship using the Mid Range Seaborne Ballistic missile. But the conclusion is found too un economically and non-effective to continue. I remember one reason why they reject the idea is because such missile is tend to be easy to fooled by Decoy subject and not safe to operate. Radar do not tell if that ship is an Aircraft Carrier or just a Cargo container. Depending on the Radar for terminal guidance will casue significant trouble unless we can find a way to ID ship based on Radar signature. This technology sadly is not available in this world yet.

The DF-21D was never a big deal to begin with because ballistic missiles are expensive.

The US Navy also has anti-ballistic missile capability in the SM-3 and SM-2 Block IV.

However, I would love to see how a Ticonderoga or Arleigh Burke would stop 100 J-31s launching 800 CM-506KGs.

A single Aegis ship wouldn't have enough VLS cells to do it even if it could intercept every single glide bomb.

Oh yeah, the J-31s can also launch a barrage of LD-10 anti-radiation missiles at the SPY-1 radar.

No, not one thousand cruise missiles. One thousand glide bombs.

Find out the unit cost of the SDB.

An Arleigh Burke is well over $1 billion.

The thing gambit's saying is not about money, but you would be stupid to think you put 1/3 or even 1/2 (Depending on the size of your future J31 force) to hit just 1 ship. While you are doing it, you focus on one part of battlefield, you let the other part while open. We would have a free for all using our 1500 F-16, 300 F-15E 200 A-10, 200 B-52 and 20 B-2 to have a free for all inside your industrial area. With all these air asset, we could probably damage 60-70% of your industrial power just because you put 100 J-31 to focus on 1 ship. If you do so, you will loose hundred of billions of dollars. While we only lose a Arleigh-Burke Destroy. This is a nice trade off.

beside, if you use free fall Bomb not a guided bomb, you can only put 1 plane on bomb run at one time. If you use all 100 plane to do a bomb run at the same time, you probably ended up crashing 98 of those plane....Either plane crash to each other or plane got stuck by friendly bombs....

If that is the case, it is literally easy to defend.

 

[j20blackdragon]

While you are doing it, you focus on one part of battlefield, you let the other part while open. We would have a free for all using our 1500 F-16, 300 F-15E 200 A-10, 200 B-52 and 20 B-2 to have a free for all inside your industrial area.

The PLAAF and 2nd Artillery would have shut down the USAF a long time ago.

You think China is dumb enough to wait around for several months (like Iraq) while the US brings 1,500 F-16s along her border?

 

[gambit]

Gambit sir, how many air defense missiles dose an Aegis ship. if you do not mind me asking

Depends on the specific mission: Up to 64 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) for defense against aircrafts and Exocet-like attackers.

The PLAAF and 2nd Artillery would have shut down the USAF a long time ago.

You think China is dumb enough to wait around for several months (like Iraq) while the US brings 1,500 F-16s along her border?

Yes, China would be that dumb, if that is how you want to put it. The US have bases in Japan and South Korea for how long now?

we dont need to fire many shots. the crewmen will all be wiped out sooner or later by self created radiation and the contaminated vessels

So according to you, EW systems will kill the user. And some people have a hard time with me using the words 'Chinese physics' to describe the things that come out of these guys...

 

[shuttler]

Actually, DOD have issued studies after Chinese alleged succeed on intercepting ship using the Mid Range Seaborne Ballistic missile. But the conclusion is found too un economically and non-effective to continue. I remember one reason why they reject the idea is because such missile is tend to be easy to fooled by Decoy subject and not safe to operate. Radar do not tell if that ship is an Aircraft Carrier or just a Cargo container. Depending on the Radar for terminal guidance will casue significant trouble unless we can find a way to ID ship based on Radar signature. This technology sadly is not available in this world yet.

You messed up the whole thing! what are you arguing? what do you have to identify? your own ship? Our ship? your missile? our missile? through your own radar system?

If the us is on an assault it will be running a battle group which is easily identifiable up in air or coastal radars

The thing gambit's saying is not about money, but you would be stupid to think you put 1/3 or even 1/2 (Depending on the size of your future J31 force) to hit just 1 ship.

we'll aim at the most expensive and most menacing while taking all others within our range

You have no clue of what you are mumbling and fumbling for an answer

While you are doing it, you focus on one part of battlefield, you let the other part while open. We would have a free for all using our 1500 F-16, 300 F-15E 200 A-10, 200 B-52 and 20 B-2 to have a free for all inside your industrial area. With all these air asset, we could probably damage 60-70% of your industrial power just because you put 100 J-31 to focus on 1 ship. If you do so, you will loose hundred of billions of dollars. While we only lose a Arleigh-Burke Destroy. This is a nice trade off.

1. we have developed a comprehesive land sea air cosmo cyber defensive system
2. bring all your 1600 F16 on together with your 200 B52 blah blah blah; where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet? You are so novice and becoming such a joke!
3, and as we are talking all along the thread we are not trying to bring just one $1 billion destroyer down.

beside, if you use free fall Bomb not a guided bomb, you can only put 1 plane on bomb run at one time. If you use all 100 plane to do a bomb run at the same time, you probably ended up crashing 98 of those plane....Either plane crash to each other or plane got stuck by friendly bombs....

If that is the case, it is literally easy to defend.

we can fire the bombs /missiles from land, underwater, air, sea! what mode of launching do you prefer?

 

[gambit]

You messed up the whole thing! what are you arguing? what do you have to identify? your own ship? Our ship? your missile? our missile? through your own radar system?

If the us is on an assault it will be running a battle group which is easily identifiable up in air or coastal radars

That is not what he was talking about. He was referring to the warhead's radar, which is limited in capabilities compared to larger systems. You have a reading comprehension problem.

...kid.

The man is a combat vet.

 

[shuttler]

Not stop, but seduce/distract. Assume an AWACS overhead to alert the ship of this incoming wave of Chinese CM. The ship would then project an EM wall and an IR blanket, each covering hundreds or even thousands of km/sq, well before any CM could achieve sensor lock.

Finally...One hundred fighters and nearly one thousand CMs just for one ship? THAT is a laugh, assuming China can wield 100 J-31s in the first place.

So according to you, EW systems will kill the user. And some people have a hard time with me using the words 'Chinese physics' to describe the things that come out of these guys...

you have no better choice but to use "Chinese Physics" for your own insult

It is you who said you have to

project an EM wall and an IR blanket, each covering hundreds or even thousands of km/sq, well before any CM could achieve sensor lock.

It is with this simpleton thinking that causes you brain to mutate genetically into weird headaches frying your countable brain cells under the intensive radiated environment!

Again when will a us warship commit to operate in a combat environment ALONE? If you come as a lone ranger you will be down and sunken as a iron block to the bottom of the Pacific with fewer of our ammunitions; if you come as a battle group which include aircraft carriers, then more iron sinking blocks and more of our missiles / amunitions!

Get it?

That is not what he was talking about. He was referring to the warhead's radar, which is limited in capabilities compared to larger systems. You have a reading comprehension problem.

we are talking all along about our missiles / bombs against your battle ships

his is confused due to mental problems and it only reflect you two appreciate each other on the same level

The man is a combat vet, conscript reject.

is that what you can come back with, the leader of the bingo community?

 

[Audio]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/april/us--navy-awards-lockheed-martin-57-million-contract-to-upgrade.html

 

[gambit]

It is you who said you have to

It is with this simpleton thinking that causes you brain to mutate genetically into weird thinking under the intensive radiated environment!

When I said 'EM wall' I was referring to electronic warfare (EW) which referenced to what is called 'jamming' against active radar seekers. So for you to say that such will kill the crew out of 'self created radiation' is outright hilarious. It is this sort of no experience, technically illiterate, and arrogance that made the Chinese members here the group laughing stock for readers to enjoy.

we are talking all along about our missiles / bombs against your battle ships

his is confused due to mental problems and it only reflect you two appreciate each other on the same level

Correct, and Chinese radars cannot distinguish out an aircraft carrier from an oil tanker.

is that what you can come back with, the leader of the bingo community?

He is a USA vet in Iraq, and I am a USAF vet in Desert Storm. Together, we got the entire Chinese membership here beat. I bet you can barely tell the difference between a rock and a rifle.

 

[shuttler]

When I said 'EM wall' I was referring to electronic warfare (EW) which referenced to what is called 'jamming' against active radar seekers. So for you to say that such will kill the crew out of 'self created radiation' is outright hilarious. It is this sort of no experience, technically illiterate, and arrogance that made the Chinese members here the group laughing stock for readers to enjoy.

you are a joke! EW and EM (electro0magnetic)! you are chickening out too late to recoup
Electronic war fare how does this cover your large fleet? computer jamming devices? We have counter jamming device chips on offer!

You are so funny cant distinguish the basic difference of what EW and EM meant and scared so much to rectify your own fault which is common to the inexperience and novice!

Correct, and Chinese radars cannot distinguish out an aircraft carrier from an oil tanker.

you have to build in you battle group some more tankers, we sink them all - indiscriminately

He is a USA vet in Iraq, and I am a USAF vet in Desert Storm. Together, we got the entire Chinese membership here beat. I bet you can barely tell the difference between a rock and a rifle.

if he is stupid enough to say bringing the entire american air borne fleet to your recomended bases in japan and s korea within a combat period, this is the most funny strategic comments from self-claimed vet. Did you guys mop the floor for the GIs or picking up trash from their toilets?

No wonder usa lost the vietnam war badly and in iraq they have to prematuredly pull out in a hurry!

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/april/us--navy-awards-lockheed-martin-57-million-contract-to-upgrade.html

there are multiple blind spots dude!

 

[j20blackdragon]

I also want to reiterate that the PLAAF has the first shot advantage against non-stealth fighters like the F-16, F-15, and F/A-18 if the ramjet-powered PL-12D is in service.

This is basically the Chinese version of the MBDA Meteor.

China successfully develops new-generation air-to-air missile - People's Daily Online