Blast in Quetta kills 84 Shias, injures 200

[Leader]

LEJ is part of TTP. Would you like me to name politicians, media persons, notables & members of this forum who support TTP?

This is the crux of the problem. Bigotry has blinded a lot of educated and otherwise rational people in Pakistan. Even Oxford educated Imran Khan will support dharna or Sit in with Hazaras but will not come out openly and denounce LEJ & SSP by name. I have seen one post here who say that LEJ/SSP were in response to TJP. What does it mean?

Doesn't indirectly imply that it is okay to kill Shias because they formed TJP? Bigots will always find some justification for their tacit support of LEJ & SSP. Until such time that all terrorists acts are condemned without any ifs and buts, bigotry & hypocrisy will remain entrenched in Pakistan society and anyone who disagrees with this butchery will be labelled as a 'Liberal jerk.

But we are good Muslims awaiting entry into heaven as a reward for cleansing infidel Shias from the land of the pure. Hurrah for the LEJ/SSP/ TTP and their supporter.

First let me clarify Imran khan, the only leader who took LeJ by name not only condemned but also demanded action against them... I am sure you have seen his pressers and statements... further there are threads on PDF, help yourself...

secondly name any Prominent Shia leader who took LeJ by name... the point is to abandon the policy of using proxies...

I was at the protests at Liberty and Governor house previously, and from last two days for hours daily at governor house... even when I asked them to chant slogans against LeJ, they skipped the suggestion...they are all scared of them, you know why?? because LeJ is your holy Army's snake...

 

[muse]

Friends, this is an emotional issue but it's very important to get it right - My Country, right or wrong, when right to be kept right, and if wrong, to be set right

I was at the protests at Liberty and Governor house previously, and from last two days for hours daily at governor house... even when I asked them to chant slogans against LeJ, they skipped the suggestion...they are all scared of them, you know why?? because LeJ is your holy Army's snake...

EDITORIAL : The military has the answer

The entire country is in mourning over the killing of over 80 innocent Hazara Shias on Saturday in Quetta. Angry protests are being held across the country demanding the arrest of the accused through a targeted operation. The genocide of the Hazara Shia has even broken the silence of leaders like Imran Khan, billed as soft on Islamist-cum-terrorist organisations like Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ). Terming the outfit un-Islamic, Imran has demanded of the government to arrest the culprits. The Supreme Court (SC) in its suo motu notice of the killings has asked the government to crack down on the group claiming responsibility. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan has criticised the failure of the government to take action against LeJ so far. The atrocity in Quetta is not new. The group claiming responsibility is not new either. The situation, where the relatives are sitting with the corpses of their dead, refusing to bury them unless the culprits are punished, is a repetition of the Alamdar Road incident when a twin blast killed even more Hazara Shias then as on Kirani Road now. The promise held out by the government to take control of the situation is also not new. Politicians blaming the intelligence agencies and vice versa is a time tested technique to shy away from accepting responsibility.

The problem is not that difficult to comprehend. The culprits have been admitting their claim of killing Hazara Shias and are living among us freely. Malik Ishaq, the leader of the LeJ, moves around without fear of retribution. Those who say that Quetta should be handed over to the military are perhaps naive enough not to know that it is already the military calling the shots there through the Frontier Corps (FC). Nothing, not even a leaf can stir without the consent of the military in Balochistan. The FC having been given police powers after Governor’s rule was imposed, has clearly failed to deliver anything positive. This is the very force responsible for the brutal elimination of nationalists in the province; an accusation proved beyond an iota of doubt by even the SC. This being the lay of the land, why is the military not taking the onus? Why is it silent, seeing the government taking all the heat of the protest staged across the country over the repeated killing of Hazara Shias in Quetta? Even if the entire police force were removed, as the Inspector General of Balochistan is replaced along with other officers, Quetta would still reverberate with death tolls, because of trying to solve the problem in the wrong way. It is tantamount to helping the FC evade its responsibilities. The removal of the incompetent previous government of Balochistan after the Alamdar Road massacre last month has brought little if any change in the government’s inability to control the deteriorating situation in Quetta. The dark night has already descended on the Hazara. The message could not have been clearer. Eight hundred kilograms of explosive was used, making Saturday’s bombing the biggest attack in Quetta’s history. If this is not enough, what are we waiting for before getting down to the business of purging this country of the ****** monsters we used in yesteryears as proxies?

Who can know how best to handle its creation than the creator? It is the military, and none else, who can suppress this ****** phenomenon. Thanks to our negligence or complacency, the extremists are equipped with the latest weaponry. The silence in certain quarters is feeding into the conspiracy theory that things are being allowed deliberately to deteriorate. Are we into some sort of systematic eradication of minorities in the country, more so Shias? This is what the killing of Shias in Karachi and Lahore too depicts. As far as Balochistan is concerned, the military establishment first, and then the government, owes an explanation to the people of the country.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

First let me clarify Imran khan, the only leader who took LeJ by name not only condemned but also demanded action against them... I am sure you have seen his pressers and statements... further there are threads on PDF, help yourself...

Imran Khan and you dont need to clarify any more, your party has lead the way to openly condemn the terrorism against the minorities. it was Imran who openly condemned the murder of Soleman Taseer when even Taseer's best friend and president of Pakistan sank in his seat and I didnt see anything from him in the press or media.

army shares the biggest blame of current domestic extremism and religious violence but also our own mindset and miserable justifications we make. our conscience & morality is so much suppressed that we always question the faith of the protestor or mourner if he is seen mourning for a minority. what I mean is that some of us will be thinking that you are shia just like muse and I are also called shia , ahmedi or liberal fascists, its not just this forum but our common mentality.

me and a cousin of mine where denouncing the crimes against the Ahemdis while walking on the road my cousin is a Barrister and we saw people suddenly stopping abruptly and listening to what we were saying. they must have thought we were Ahmedis. in an other instance I was a guy decided that I was in "Rangers" because I was condemning Red Mosque brothers for initiating the operation when few days earlier their students shot dead a Ranger without provocation.

point is .. we have somehow decided that we will only talk for our faith , our race, our ethnicity, our religion and will show a very
cold and insensitive side to the suffering of other human beings. now thats something I cant blame my army for. neither RAW, nor MOSAD or CIA or Saudis or Iranians.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

and their sympathizers too. Honestly I think at this point you need an event similar to the "Great Purge" inside the army, ISI and other such organizations. Remove terrorist and their sympathizers completely.

I have been reconsidering the Panetta's statement he made about Pakistan after OBL operation.
he said either Pakistanis are complicit OR incompetent in capturing Osama

but now I think the more appropriate word should have been "AND"
some of the people are actually active supporters and sympathisers of sectarian terrorists who form the biggest part of TTP
providing inside information about GHQ and other military bases and SSG mess. and the ones that are not sympathetic to terrorists and are really honestly trying to rid the evil are failing because they cant get their own house clean and all they have presented us as a proof of their actions is bombing at wilderness whereas the terrorists leave no doubt when they video tape their accomplishments shooting at point blank range, beheading and desecrating corpses of civilians and soldiers alike.


in Sheikh Rashid words about Army (in other context but applies here too ) (ya Satuu pee kay soay hoay hay)
meaning they are not bothered and are taking things lightly while time is running out.

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, the last part is also a side-effect of prolonged brain-washing. Tell me if Lej, Let et al. were not creations of Army? I know you aren't going to deny it, so the next question is: What did you expect would happen over a longer period, as they were allowed to operate and spread their propaganda for THREE decades? Sorry mate, it is what it is. I know that may not have been the intention behind creation of such outfits, however, that is what we are stuck with. Lunatic bloodthirsty "Lashkars" and a desensitized / highly polarized society. Sad. Very sad. Experiment gone wrong.

Imran Khan and you dont need to clarify any more, your party has lead the way to openly condemn the terrorism against the minorities. it was Imran who openly condemned the murder of Soleman Taseer when even Taseer's best friend and president of Pakistan sank in his seat and I didnt see anything from him in the press or media.

army shares the biggest blame of current domestic extremism and religious violence but also our own mindset and miserable justifications we make. our conscience & morality is so much suppressed that we always question the faith of the protestor or mourner if he is seen mourning for a minority. what I mean is that some of us will be thinking that you are shia just like muse and I are also called shia , ahmedi or liberal fascists, its not just this forum but our common mentality.

me and a cousin of mine where denouncing the crimes against the Ahemdis while walking on the road my cousin is a Barrister and we saw people suddenly stopping abruptly and listening to what we were saying. they must have thought we were Ahmedis. in an other instance I was a guy decided that I was in "Rangers" because I was condemning Red Mosque brothers for initiating the operation when few days earlier their students shot dead a Ranger without provocation.

point is .. we have somehow decided that we will only talk for our faith , our race, our ethnicity, our religion and will show a very
cold and insensitive side to the suffering of other human beings. now thats something I cant blame my army for. neither RAW, nor MOSAD or CIA or Saudis or Iranians.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Mate, the last part is also a side-effect of prolonged brain-washing. Tell me if Lej, Let et al. were not creations of Army? I know you aren't going to deny it, so the next question is: What did you expect would happen over a longer period, as they were allowed to operate and spread their propaganda for THREE decades? Sorry mate, it is what it is. I know that may not have been the intention behind creation of such outfits, however, that is what we are stuck with. Lunatic bloodthirsty "Lashkars" and a desensitized / highly polarized society. Sad. Very sad. Experiment gone wrong.

Didn't Abul Kalam Azad describe Pakistan as an "experiment" at the time of its formation?

What worries me is the degree of desensitization and polarization in our society these days. We are not moved by death, as long as we ourselves are safe. We hold on to bigoted views, as long as we ourselves are not the target of other's bigoted views.

 

[Hyperion]

Even he could not have predicted that various establishment and armed forces (during different era) would go to such extremes. You need to listen to his full speech.

Didn't Abul Kalam Azad describe Pakistan as an "experiment" at the time of its formation?

What worries me is the degree of desensitization and polarization in our society these days. We are not moved by death, as long as we ourselves are safe. We hold on to bigoted views, as long as we ourselves are not the target of other's bigoted views.

 

[Safriz]

ISLAMABAD:The Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) resubmitted its report in the Supreme Court during Wednesday’s hearing of the suo motu notice taken in the aftermath of the recent blast in Quetta, DawnNews reported.

The court also expressed its dissatisfaction over a report submitted by the Governor of Balochistan.

According to the report the intelligence agencies had provided prior intimation regarding an imminent terrorist attack.

Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad giving his remarks said that if there was information available about an attack on the Hazara Community on Jan 27 then it was the duty of the police and FC to act for the prevention of such an incident.

The deputy attorney general informed the court that the cabinet secretary would appear in court on Feb 21 for the hearing of the case pertaining to the Hazara killings.

The court also summoned the Director General FC, CCPO Quetta, Balochistan’s home secretary and the secretary of interior and defence for the next hearing which was adjourned until Feb 21.

Earlier the court had rejected a report of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) submitted by Defence Secretary Asif Yaseen Malik, DawnNews reported.

A three-member bench of the apex court, headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, was hearing the case.

Interior Secretary Khwaja Siddiq Akbar and the defence secretary were present during today’s hearing.

The court rejected the ISI report which was submitted by the defence secretary and ordered for it to be re-submitted after amendments.

The chief justice remarked that the court’s queries were not answered and that reports were sought from other agencies as well.

The defence secretary said that Military Intelligence (MI) has no role in this case and he further said that if the MI comes across any information only then it shares it with the ISI.

Earlier on Tuesday, Chief Justice Iftikhar had said that the responsibility for Saturday’s deadly bombing that claimed 87 lives fell on the federal government.

http://dawn.com/2013/02/20/hazara-killings-sc-dissatisfied-over-isi-report/

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Even he could not have predicted that various establishment and armed forces (during different era) would go to such extremes. You need to listen to his full speech.

Abdul Kalam was a bigot himself he was no prophet, did he predict what his beloved Indian state has been doing?

re blaming Army as an institution to found LeJ , I have a different view because it was founded from the age old animosity the extremist sunnis hold against the shia minority well before the founding of Pakistan. ask the Indians how much love the shias get in lakhnaw by the same elements who are fortunately only restricted to throwing stones and abuses at their Muharam processions.

army as the decision maker, owner and ruler of Pakistan does take the blame for not crushing this serpent no doubt but it didnt feed it. because that well be against its own self interest and self preservation. it needs the same source pool of Pakistani citizens to fill its ranks that hail from cross section of the society.

in ISI there have been elements who turned the blind eye on the sectarian terrorists because at that time they were helping insurgency in Afghanistan and Kashmir. but they are as much guilty as the Americans who were soft on pakistani nuclear program during Afghan war. but now LeJ has proved itself to be as deadly and ruthless towards the armed forces like its sister organisation TTP so that supposed love is no longer there if it was there before

 

[EyelessInGaza]

ISLAMABAD:The Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) resubmitted its report in the Supreme Court during Wednesday’s hearing of the suo motu notice taken in the aftermath of the recent blast in Quetta, DawnNews reported.

The court also expressed its dissatisfaction over a report submitted by the Governor of Balochistan.

According to the report the intelligence agencies had provided prior intimation regarding an imminent terrorist attack.............

I'd qualify at the outset that this is not a troll.

Some forum members on this and other threads have argued that the ISI could take no blame in not preventing or combating these Shia killings as its focus is external to Pakistan.

If so, I'm wondering the process and operational side that is reflected in the agency presenting a report to the SC on an 'internal matter', and the fact that it had provided an earlier warning.

Abdul Kalam was a bigot himself ...........

At the risk of taking the thread off topic, this is an interesting claim; can you back it up? I'm curious about this POV.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

A........

army as the decision maker, owner and ruler of Pakistan does take the blame for not crushing this serpent no doubt but it didnt feed it. because that well be against its own self interest and self preservation. it needs the same source pool of Pakistani citizens to fill its ranks that hail from cross section of the society. ............

Truer words were never spoken. Thank you.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I'd qualify at the outset that this is not a troll.

Some forum members on this and other threads have argued that the ISI could take no blame in not preventing or combating these Shia killings as its focus is external to Pakistan.

If so, I'm wondering the process and operational side that is reflected in the agency presenting a report to the SC on an 'internal matter', and the fact that it had provided an earlier warning.



At the risk of taking the thread off topic, this is an interesting claim; can you back it up? I'm curious about this POV.

sorry

please explain
ISI is not law enforcement.. it will pass on information then its the enforcement agencies to act upon its reports.
Mehran and Minhas base attacks were also warned about it was in the end the security failure to act upon those warnings

 

[Hyperion]

I admit I don't know much about "Abul Kalam Azad", whatever I know is from the speeches on youtube and couple articles online.

Ok, to the point now, and lets not digress: As you are in the game right now, can you tell with reasonable certainty that the officers understand one fundamental point that "there are no good Lashkars"?

Abdul Kalam was a bigot himself he was no prophet, did he predict what his beloved Indian state has been doing?

re blaming Army as an institution to found LeJ , I have a different view because it was founded from the age old animosity the extremist sunnis hold against the shia minority well before the founding of Pakistan. ask the Indians how much love the shias get in lakhnaw by the same elements who are fortunately only restricted to throwing stones and abuses at their Muharam processions.

army as the decision maker, owner and ruler of Pakistan does take the blame for not crushing this serpent no doubt but it didnt feed it. because that well be against its own self interest and self preservation. it needs the same source pool of Pakistani citizens to fill its ranks that hail from cross section of the society.

in ISI there have been elements who turned the blind eye on the sectarian terrorists because at that time they were helping insurgency in Afghanistan and Kashmir. but they are as much guilty as the Americans who were soft on pakistani nuclear program during Afghan war. but now LeJ has proved itself to be as deadly and ruthless towards the armed forces like its sister organisation TTP so that supposed love is no longer there if it was there before

 

[EyelessInGaza]

sorry

please explain
ISI is not law enforcement.. it will pass on information then its the enforcement agencies to act upon its reports.
Mehran and Minhas base attacks were also warned about it was in the end the security failure to act upon those warnings

Ok: Passing on warnings about what are internal ops should be mostly the purvey of internally focused agencies, unless you are saying these were foreign ops in which case the ISI gets involved. So my question is, why is the ISI getting involved in tracking internal ops?

Edited later: Actually Irfan, forget it. I realize this is a minor point at this point- for this thread and does not really take it forward.

 

[Guest01]

I admit I don't know much about "Abul Kalam Azad", whatever I know is from the speeches on youtube and couple articles online.

Ok, to the point now, and lets not digress: As you are in the game right now, can you tell with reasonable certainty that the officers understand one fundamental point that "there are no good Lashkars"?

There are voices claiming that Laskhars were a necessity for the Army as it was to do with external security threats = Shia Demons in Iran and Hindu Demons in India and of course the Monkey trap that Kashmir is.

So who turn out to be the real demos in hindsight?

Looking at the denial that your PoV came against, I like your way of bringing back the focus and the very pertinent question. Will the Lashkars be now disavowed or are they still "our boys" for the army who created them to ensure their petty political gains within the Pakistani society.