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BLA releases Video of Ormara Attack

Exactly.

Moreover, these were OGDC employees in the pickup which managed to escape since its driver was not hit ....the driver remained in his senses and instead of slowing down to present more targets, he sped away from the kill box.
...and moreover, these Fotons are new vehicles being used by Army and FC etc....and they are normally without number plates since they havent been issued yet. They will be given number plates shortly.
Why can't they give the convoys drone escorts? With thermal and UV imaging and High res cameras the drones should be able to recon and survey the area. Helicopter gunships should be able to finish the terrorists off. Pakistan is being attacked and we are at war, this Baluchi terror has been going for too long. We need to think solutions and find them quick.
 
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Great post!

I also feel the same way, there is a very high chance that they had inside information. To me it seems, that the insider relayed the info that, this particular convoy is a good candidate. They are lightly armed, no recon party etc etc. It also seems to me that they were hit where they didn't expect it, the convoy was probably not given all the due precautions (light protection, no survey party) because the FC (or who ever was in charge) deemed this area to be safe. This all points to a highly mobile adversary in that region. Where they can converge on location on short notice. Scary stuff.

Another thing to note is that, the cameraman continues to stay close to the location and he is filming the helicopters that arrived to help. He is about 5 km away. Thats not very far, they should have been caught. Can FC request a UAV from the airforce to arrive to help, perhaps later the FC can pay the cost of using it?

This cat and mouse game has to end. Balochistan is massive in area no doubt. Army has deployed two infantry Divisions and FC is almost the same strength (2 divisions roughly). Covering such a frontage is next to impossible but not entirely impossible. The problem is infront of us but there are a lot of variables that can be played with like tactics, deployment of men and material, use of weaponry, mobile recon, intelligence and surveillance units etc. In PMA, during second term or maybe third term i think, there is an exercise where "ambush" tactics are taught and cadets demonstrate practically, so the Army officers are well versed on such military applications. The question remains for FC. The FC of KPK has been active in Ops with regular Army and has seen lots of action. The FC in Baluchistan is still on a learning curve unfortunately as Ops conducted in KPK have not been conducted in Baluchistan. It would be hard to believe but before 2002, the LMG mounted on a pickup was just hung on mount, not even properly fixed as it was never brought in use. After 2002, everything changed in KPK. Coming to this incident, it was planned poorly and thus a heavy price was paid.

There exists a term called "threat matrix", it can pin point the level of threat to be faced according to some some criteria's. Looks like the threat matrix was not even visited before moving out as a convoy. OGDCL employs helicopters and small aircrafts also to land in far flung areas at its gas sites. OGDCL identified the security threat and not only assigned own guards but also requested FC for escort. While OGDCL considered the threat to be high, it seems FC under estimated the threat and took it as a routine mission. We wouldn't have known that OGDCL employees were travelling towards a site that day, its not like they are foreign dignitaries and media will surely report it. The unfortunate incident happened and then media reported it. The gas sites in Sui are also protected by Army, an infantry battalion is usually responsible for defending that area and its troops are scattered all over the area.

I made a thread on another force that exists in Pakistan. Its called National Guard. It has four branches but the important ones are Mujahid and Janbaz force. These are light infantry and deployed on LOC also. They are tasked with providing AD in populated areas during war like towns and cities. NG is trained to defend an area from enemy attack, while FC is trained for policing urban areas. Their tasks are different so training is different too. Next is Balochistan constabulary numbering 8000+ whose training standards have "tried" to be maintained by imparting training from regular infantry Battalions (as an example i remember 22 Punjab Regt was tasked with it). There is also a Balochsitan Highway patrol covering 155 km of road who failed to detect the set up for this ambush. The Balochistan police and costabulary have been trained in AT Ops by Army's 48 FF and 6 AK infantry regiments. The Elite Police in Balochistan numbering 10,000 is protecting VIPs in Quetta. Then there are Levies and Khasadars, a very basic form of tribal policing.

If you look at northern end of Baluchistan, Army and FC are deployed while on the southern end are Pakistan Marines. The whole area in between these two ends has presence of LEAs that i mentioned above except NG.

The intelligence agencies deployed in Balochistan is a story for another day and their inter-working/information sharing skill is something to be desired. In their own indepenedent sphere, they will work day and night producing results. Working together, especially where concerns of local sardars and local government employees come in, thats where the problems start to arise.

Army and Chief own the regular troops, but it seems no one owns FC. The FC commanders at different levels are deputed from Army who have a stay of 2-3 years, however irresponsible service in FC (or Rangers) has nullified promotions of many officers. It seemed once that Pakistan Marines are treated orphans only but Balochistan FC is suffering the same fate. This is what happens when the PSP officers in-charge of a department are made to sit thousands of kms away as in case of officers in Ministry of Interior. IG FC may write to them which they may or may not approve. At least the COAS visits the troops he is responsible for and conducts regular CCs meetings.

Maybe you know or maybe you dont know that there are places in Balochistan where writ of Government has no value and Police is helpless. Those places are palaces and areas of sardars. I can tell you an incident in which one of the teams from my organisation was providing communication in some area of Balochistan. The local sardar had a sprawling palace there and was a good host. A feeder cable of few 100 meters was stolen from the team on site. Police said they were helpless. Sardars men produced the feeder cable after a hue and cry was raised. No one has the right to ask what goes in and out of such palaces. Anybody can be kidnapped and thrown there for eternity. What if miscreants and insurgents find refuge there ? Police dare not ask. Levies are their own men from tribes. If FC is sent then political issues arise. if Army is sent in, then Top Brass wants dictatorship in the country. Blaming on all LEAs but no practical steps in real sense have been taken by Government to bring Balochistan under its writ completely.

So when all the Military top brass and Generals are cursed at on this forum, why aren't other factors concerning Balochistan looked at ? Are PSP officers just drinking tea in their offices in Islamabad ? What about the Government employees sitting in Quetta handling different security departments ?
NO. Its a trend of few PDF members to at once start cursing Generals without understanding even an iota of the ground situation. I can't sit and judge members on their posts but it has become hectic to portray a picture sometimes.

The Baloch tribes have their own enmities also. I asked an Army officer once why he was awarded T(QA) as a medal (Tamgha e Quaid e Azam). He responded that he was instrumental in getting a peace treaty signed between two rival Baloch tribes as he was sent on duty in that area to curb down violence.

That helicopter you mentioned flying seemed a Naval Sea King to me which could have flown from the Ormara Naval base after FC convoy troops had sent wireless calls on radios. FC can request fire support but the assets can be sent only if available, its not about operating cost.

MRAPs are required but is that the only solution ? I dont know. And i dont think that MRAP is the only solution. Yelling MRAPs on top of the lungs here or cursing Military Generals while doing nothing practically is just way to vent out. I see the same members posting same stuff in the same recurring incidents, its been years now.

Ask anyone of the the members here who mentioned they felt pain for FC troops and their families, who among them has written to Ijaz Shah ? The reply is probably no one has, but it would be really impressive to see if they put a pen where their mouth is.
 
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Just get some MRAPs jeez
We should run a fund rasing compaign this is outragous and ludricous
This cat and mouse game has to end. Balochistan is massive in area no doubt. Army has deployed two infantry Divisions and FC is almost the same strength (2 divisions roughly). Covering such a frontage is next to impossible but not entirely impossible. The problem is infront of us but there are a lot of variables that can be played with like tactics, deployment of men and material, use of weaponry, mobile recon, intelligence and surveillance units etc. In PMA, during second term or maybe third term i think, there is an exercise where "ambush" tactics are taught and cadets demonstrate practically, so the Army officers are well versed on such military applications. The question remains for FC. The FC of KPK has been active in Ops with regular Army and has seen lots of action. The FC in Baluchistan is still on a learning curve unfortunately as Ops conducted in KPK have not been conducted in Baluchistan. It would be hard to believe but before 2002, the LMG mounted on a pickup was just hung on mount, not even properly fixed as it was never brought in use. After 2002, everything changed in KPK. Coming to this incident, it was planned poorly and thus a heavy price was paid.

There exists a term called "threat matrix", it can pin point the level of threat to be faced according to some some criteria's. Looks like the threat matrix was not even visited before moving out as a convoy. OGDCL employs helicopters and small aircrafts also to land in far flung areas at its gas sites. OGDCL identified the security threat and not only assigned own guards but also requested FC for escort. While OGDCL considered the threat to be high, it seems FC under estimated the threat and took it as a routine mission. We wouldn't have known that OGDCL employees were travelling towards a site that day, its not like they are foreign dignitaries and media will surely report it. The unfortunate incident happened and then media reported it. The gas sites in Sui are also protected by Army, an infantry battalion is usually responsible for defending that area and its troops are scattered all over the area.

I made a thread on another force that exists in Pakistan. Its called National Guard. It has four branches but the important ones are Mujahid and Janbaz force. These are light infantry and deployed on LOC also. They are tasked with providing AD in populated areas during war like towns and cities. NG is trained to defend an area from enemy attack, while FC is trained for policing urban areas. Their tasks are different so training is different too. Next is Balochistan constabulary numbering 8000+ whose training standards have "tried" to be maintained by imparting training from regular infantry Battalions (as an example i remember 22 Punjab Regt was tasked with it). There is also a Balochsitan Highway patrol covering 155 km of road who failed to detect the set up for this ambush. The Balochistan police and costabulary have been trained in AT Ops by Army's 48 FF and 6 AK infantry regiments. The Elite Police in Balochistan numbering 10,000 is protecting VIPs in Quetta. Then there are Levies and Khasadars, a very basic form of tribal policing.

If you look at northern end of Baluchistan, Army and FC are deployed while on the southern end are Pakistan Marines. The whole area in between these two ends has presence of LEAs that i mentioned above except NG.

The intelligence agencies deployed in Balochistan is a story for another day and their inter-working/information sharing skill is something to be desired. In their own indepenedent sphere, they will work day and night producing results. Working together, especially where concerns of local sardars and local government employees come in, thats where the problems start to arise.

Army and Chief own the regular troops, but it seems no one owns FC. The FC commanders at different levels are deputed from Army who have a stay of 2-3 years, however irresponsible service in FC (or Rangers) has nullified promotions of many officers. It seemed once that Pakistan Marines are treated orphans only but Balochistan FC is suffering the same fate. This is what happens when the PSP officers in-charge of a department are made to sit thousands of kms away as in case of officers in Ministry of Interior. IG FC may write to them which they may or may not approve. At least the COAS visits the troops he is responsible for and conducts regular CCs meetings.

Maybe you know or maybe you dont know that there are places in Balochistan where writ of Government has no value and Police is helpless. Those places are palaces and areas of sardars. I can tell you an incident in which one of the teams from my organisation was providing communication in some area of Balochistan. The local sardar had a sprawling palace there and was a good host. A feeder cable of few 100 meters was stolen from the team on site. Police said they were helpless. Sardars men produced the feeder cable after a hue and cry was raised. No one has the right to ask what goes in and out of such palaces. Anybody can be kidnapped and thrown there for eternity. What if miscreants and insurgents find refuge there ? Police dare not ask. Levies are their own men from tribes. If FC is sent then political issues arise. if Army is sent in, then Top Brass wants dictatorship in the country. Blaming on all LEAs but no practical steps in real sense have been taken by Government to bring Balochistan under its writ completely.

So when all the Military top brass and Generals are cursed at on this forum, why aren't other factors concerning Balochistan looked at ? Are PSP officers just drinking tea in their offices in Islamabad ? What about the Government employees sitting in Quetta handling different security departments ?
NO. Its a trend of few PDF members to at once start cursing Generals without understanding even an iota of the ground situation. I can't sit and judge members on their posts but it has become hectic to portray a picture sometimes.

The Baloch tribes have their own enmities also. I asked an Army officer once why he was awarded T(QA) as a medal (Tamgha e Quaid e Azam). He responded that he was instrumental in getting a peace treaty signed between two rival Baloch tribes as he was sent on duty in that area to curb down violence.

That helicopter you mentioned flying seemed a Naval Sea King to me which could have flown from the Ormara Naval base after FC convoy troops had sent wireless calls on radios. FC can request fire support but the assets can be sent only if available, its not about operating cost.

MRAPs are required but is that the only solution ? I dont know. And i dont think that MRAP is the only solution. Yelling MRAPs on top of the lungs here or cursing Military Generals while doing nothing practically is just way to vent out. I see the same members posting same stuff in the same recurring incidents, its been years now.

Ask anyone of the the members here who mentioned they felt pain for FC troops and their families, who among them has written to Ijaz Shah ? The reply is probably no one has, but it would be really impressive to see if they put a pen where their mouth is.
Yes yes MRAPs is not the solution but it is a BAND AID..currently you dont have a BANDAID FORGOD SAKE

FC IS UNDER CORE COMMAND DO WHY IS CORE COMMAND NOT ASKING FOR MRAPS????

IF I WAS IN COMMAND I WOULD HAVE RESIGNWS IF THEY DIDNT GIVE ME MRAPS FOR MY SOLDIERS..EVEN IF IT SAVES 1 LIFE ITS WORTH IT

A MRAP COST LESS THEN THE BMW YOUR CHIEF RIDES IN
 
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Balochistan, well its 44 % of our country's land mass.....imagine....almost half of total Pakistan....its true that militants number hardly hundreds, but looking for them in such a vast area is very difficult.
What about drones? Secondly i understand that FC is not exactly army since they fall under MOI dont they operate under synchronization specially in areas which are still considered as hot zones?
On another note since many people including myself were not aware until recently that army has nothing to do with FC and it comes directly under the ministry of interior, so now that is cleared up how can we pressurize the MOI to get their act straight or perhaps write directly to the PM to not play with the lives of our Jawans and procure some MRAPs for God sake. Their lives are not cheap.
@Signalian
 
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What about drones? Secondly i understand that FC is not exactly army since they fall under MOI dont they operate under synchronization specially in areas which are still considered as hot zones?
On another note since many people including myself were not aware until recently that army has nothing to do with FC and it comes directly under the ministry of interior, so now that is cleared up how can we pressurize the MOI to get their act straight or perhaps write directly to the PM to not play with the lives of our Jawans and procure some MRAPs for God sake. Their lives are not cheap.
@Signalian
Dear

Drones are about to make an entry in this area.

Sync between Army and FC is upto a certain limit. FC is under MOI and they control its use like Army HQ does for its under-command formations.

@Signalian 's points are very valid. I havent seen anyone from MOI visiting FC troops deployed in Balochistan for the last 3 years or so.

You are right, and not only MOI, but there are other departments as well responsible for weapon / equipment of FC which need to get their act straight.
 
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Why can't they give the convoys drone escorts? With thermal and UV imaging and High res cameras the drones should be able to recon and survey the area. Helicopter gunships should be able to finish the terrorists off. Pakistan is being attacked and we are at war, this Baluchi terror has been going for too long. We need to think solutions and find them quick.

Because the MOI leeches all the $ and blames the Army. It's already explained in this thread by 2 (if not more) different people.....is it that hard to understand?

Drones aren't cheap, especially ones that can give escorts to the convey. Drones also give away crucial info......that you're being surveyed and should not kill that convey coming down the road unless you want to give up the element of surprise.

And the element of surprise is the best element in warfare.
 
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This will happen more because of UAE - Israel military alliance. UAE and its traitors in Pakistan want to destroy Gwadar.
 
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When the people of Balochistan are with us. BLA can't hurt us. Baluch Aman Volunteers.
 
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I have said it many times, PA should use armoured vehicles and armed drones to protect them in trouble areas. These Hilux are nothing but death trap for our boys and our boys lifes are very precious. Poor decision made by top Generals should not be tolerated at all.
 
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This cat and mouse game has to end. Balochistan is massive in area no doubt. Army has deployed two infantry Divisions and FC is almost the same strength (2 divisions roughly). Covering such a frontage is next to impossible but not entirely impossible. The problem is infront of us but there are a lot of variables that can be played with like tactics, deployment of men and material, use of weaponry, mobile recon, intelligence and surveillance units etc. In PMA, during second term or maybe third term i think, there is an exercise where "ambush" tactics are taught and cadets demonstrate practically, so the Army officers are well versed on such military applications. The question remains for FC. The FC of KPK has been active in Ops with regular Army and has seen lots of action. The FC in Baluchistan is still on a learning curve unfortunately as Ops conducted in KPK have not been conducted in Baluchistan. It would be hard to believe but before 2002, the LMG mounted on a pickup was just hung on mount, not even properly fixed as it was never brought in use. After 2002, everything changed in KPK. Coming to this incident, it was planned poorly and thus a heavy price was paid.

There exists a term called "threat matrix", it can pin point the level of threat to be faced according to some some criteria's. Looks like the threat matrix was not even visited before moving out as a convoy. OGDCL employs helicopters and small aircrafts also to land in far flung areas at its gas sites. OGDCL identified the security threat and not only assigned own guards but also requested FC for escort. While OGDCL considered the threat to be high, it seems FC under estimated the threat and took it as a routine mission. We wouldn't have known that OGDCL employees were travelling towards a site that day, its not like they are foreign dignitaries and media will surely report it. The unfortunate incident happened and then media reported it. The gas sites in Sui are also protected by Army, an infantry battalion is usually responsible for defending that area and its troops are scattered all over the area.

I made a thread on another force that exists in Pakistan. Its called National Guard. It has four branches but the important ones are Mujahid and Janbaz force. These are light infantry and deployed on LOC also. They are tasked with providing AD in populated areas during war like towns and cities. NG is trained to defend an area from enemy attack, while FC is trained for policing urban areas. Their tasks are different so training is different too. Next is Balochistan constabulary numbering 8000+ whose training standards have "tried" to be maintained by imparting training from regular infantry Battalions (as an example i remember 22 Punjab Regt was tasked with it). There is also a Balochsitan Highway patrol covering 155 km of road who failed to detect the set up for this ambush. The Balochistan police and costabulary have been trained in AT Ops by Army's 48 FF and 6 AK infantry regiments. The Elite Police in Balochistan numbering 10,000 is protecting VIPs in Quetta. Then there are Levies and Khasadars, a very basic form of tribal policing.

If you look at northern end of Baluchistan, Army and FC are deployed while on the southern end are Pakistan Marines. The whole area in between these two ends has presence of LEAs that i mentioned above except NG.

The intelligence agencies deployed in Balochistan is a story for another day and their inter-working/information sharing skill is something to be desired. In their own indepenedent sphere, they will work day and night producing results. Working together, especially where concerns of local sardars and local government employees come in, thats where the problems start to arise.

Army and Chief own the regular troops, but it seems no one owns FC. The FC commanders at different levels are deputed from Army who have a stay of 2-3 years, however irresponsible service in FC (or Rangers) has nullified promotions of many officers. It seemed once that Pakistan Marines are treated orphans only but Balochistan FC is suffering the same fate. This is what happens when the PSP officers in-charge of a department are made to sit thousands of kms away as in case of officers in Ministry of Interior. IG FC may write to them which they may or may not approve. At least the COAS visits the troops he is responsible for and conducts regular CCs meetings.

Maybe you know or maybe you dont know that there are places in Balochistan where writ of Government has no value and Police is helpless. Those places are palaces and areas of sardars. I can tell you an incident in which one of the teams from my organisation was providing communication in some area of Balochistan. The local sardar had a sprawling palace there and was a good host. A feeder cable of few 100 meters was stolen from the team on site. Police said they were helpless. Sardars men produced the feeder cable after a hue and cry was raised. No one has the right to ask what goes in and out of such palaces. Anybody can be kidnapped and thrown there for eternity. What if miscreants and insurgents find refuge there ? Police dare not ask. Levies are their own men from tribes. If FC is sent then political issues arise. if Army is sent in, then Top Brass wants dictatorship in the country. Blaming on all LEAs but no practical steps in real sense have been taken by Government to bring Balochistan under its writ completely.

So when all the Military top brass and Generals are cursed at on this forum, why aren't other factors concerning Balochistan looked at ? Are PSP officers just drinking tea in their offices in Islamabad ? What about the Government employees sitting in Quetta handling different security departments ?
NO. Its a trend of few PDF members to at once start cursing Generals without understanding even an iota of the ground situation. I can't sit and judge members on their posts but it has become hectic to portray a picture sometimes.

The Baloch tribes have their own enmities also. I asked an Army officer once why he was awarded T(QA) as a medal (Tamgha e Quaid e Azam). He responded that he was instrumental in getting a peace treaty signed between two rival Baloch tribes as he was sent on duty in that area to curb down violence.

That helicopter you mentioned flying seemed a Naval Sea King to me which could have flown from the Ormara Naval base after FC convoy troops had sent wireless calls on radios. FC can request fire support but the assets can be sent only if available, its not about operating cost.

MRAPs are required but is that the only solution ? I dont know. And i dont think that MRAP is the only solution. Yelling MRAPs on top of the lungs here or cursing Military Generals while doing nothing practically is just way to vent out. I see the same members posting same stuff in the same recurring incidents, its been years now.

Ask anyone of the the members here who mentioned they felt pain for FC troops and their families, who among them has written to Ijaz Shah ? The reply is probably no one has, but it would be really impressive to see if they put a pen where their mouth is.
Thank you for this insightful article. It nicely details the nuances of the situation in Baluchistan.

I have a few questions.
Pardon my ignorance. How can FC request naval assets to assist them if FC comes under MOI. From the legal perspective.

Second what is your opinion on this.

Either this is the only time that the FC didn’t take it serious and got hit. That would mean that the level of surveillance the terrorists have on the defence forces is at another level. And a cause for concern.

or more likely in my opinion

FC had been regularly making relaxed runs. This habit was picked up by the BLA and planned accordingly. Which is also a cause of concern. Why are they getting relaxed.

What is the reality on the ground there.
Dear

Drones are about to make an entry in this area.

Sync between Army and FC is upto a certain limit. FC is under MOI and they control its use like Army HQ does for its under-command formations.

@Signalian 's points are very valid. I havent seen anyone from MOI visiting FC troops deployed in Balochistan for the last 3 years or so.

You are right, and not only MOI, but there are other departments as well responsible for weapon / equipment of FC which need to get their act straight.

Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to come and interact with us here. What a great opportunity we have.

That is great news. Drones have the potential to completely change the dynamics In Baluchistan.

What is your opinion on ballistic windshields and side panels. I feel that not having something basic like that and being at the discretion of an AK is too low of a threshold. It is too easy of a target. Adding bullet proof windshields will atleast raise it to the next level which would be shaped charges like the IEDs or RPGs.

I understand that FC is not under the jurisdiction of the Army. I just wonder what you would have to say about that.

Summary:

Would adding protection against small arms fire make a significant difference. Or can we plan and manage using other means such as advance parties etc.

Cheers
 
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Being located much nearer to this location, and because i also wear a uniform.....you can imagine my frustration, and frustration of others like me as well.

Dear, troops to space ration is very unfavorable to us in Balochistan. FATA was a small area, we pumped in half of our army there and then achieved the desired results. Even then it took such a long time.

Balochistan, well its 44 % of our country's land mass.....imagine....almost half of total Pakistan....its true that militants number hardly hundreds, but looking for them in such a vast area is very difficult. Same goes for our deployments as well, since we are stretched too thin, so we have to make a hard choice of prioritising our assets.....we first secure our high value assets......

Moreover, problem of FC remains. They fall directly under Ministry of Interior, whatever little funds, weapons, equipment they get or have, is given by MOI, not by PA. Their budget etc is all separate. Its due to these problems that FC is given regular army officers in order to bring some semblance so that they are able to do something, otherwise, their fighting capability is very limited.

Measures have already been taken in order to ensure that such incidents do not happen in future. I cant comment on this since they are still classified. But inshAllah you'll see new platforms VERY shortly.
Though it is STILL premature to say....

But drones coming with approx 600 km endurance, ability to deploy missiles and deploy GPS guided mines

Surveillance means including geo fencing, motion sensors, thermal scanners, facial and vehicle recognition...

....and a lot many goodies coming....

But then let's wait for them to make their debut....
 
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