Bin Salman: Saudi Arabia promoted wahabism on West's directions

[SALMAN F]

May god curse the salafists and destroye them and sent them to hell with ibn taymmia


It's funny al saud today consider the muslim brotherhood as terrorists organization while it was the Saudis who welcomed them and printed their books and many mb members became part of the saudi educational system

 

[Irfan Baloch]

ISO was formed in 1972, TJP was formed in 1979 before the revolution. So both of your claims are dead here. Iran did arm and fund Hezbollah. So you advocate Israeli Invasion? Was anyone else powerful enough to stop them? Don't tell me that you're some "broad minded" patriot who supports diplomatic relations with Israel for the "betterment of Pakistan".

yea I would have liked relations with Israel but thats too late now. best time was in the 70s.
Iranian support of Hizbullah was political and a power struggle serving Islam and hating Israel is just an added bonus.

claims re TNFJ and ISO are not dead. I dont have the timeline of their inception but I have lived and grew in the time in the parts of Pakistan where the Urdu, Punjabi and Hazara community in Quetta belonging to shia faith got a boost right after the revolution. during the same time Jhang saw the emergence of a demented and repulsive Mullah Haq Nawaz Jhangvi and sipah Sahabah leading to the assassination of Iranian ambassador Sadiq Ganji


a common friend even took me to one of the ISO meeting after evening prayers we chanted death to America, Roosia , Israel and Sadam and watched the celebration of commemoration of Iranian Islamic revolution.
yes I am broad minded enough to have prayed behind people who pray with their hands open or closed in either mosques. I was even able to visit the Jumah mosque of shia's and see the Arif Hussaini who was assassinated on the orders of Gen Zia after which it became virtually impossible for a sunni to visit a shia place.

this passage below may not be related directly to what the subject matter of this thread is but I experienced it first hand and saw it in the light of Saudi/ Iran proxy war in our country.
during late 80s our unit was deployed in Azad Kashmir and our CO received a request to send a platoon for Muharram procession as a token appearance to pacify the tension in the remote village (I dont remember the name). the place had a visit by central leadership of TFJ and the deobandi community (normally known as wahabis) had setup the Sipah Sahabah shop there, they roamed in newly bought double cabin trucks and 4x4 vehicles and seemed to have ample funds, their modest buildings saw rapid upgrade and they suddenly got deep pockets to make their presence felt which our local ISI associates pointed (unofficially) at foreign funding.
and incidentally their madrassah+ Mosque happened to be in the moharram route from where they would spit , throw stones and hurl abuses on the mourners.
so we were supposed to assist the local DC and police in ensuring that no provocation took place from rooftops of the sensitive area and the mourners were able to pass without incident. there was also agreement with administration that mourners will stop the procession and sit down and wait out if there was call to prayers.
the troublesome people in the mosque en route started Zohr Azan earlier just to stall the procession and the troublesome people in the procession also decided to start beating their chests right in front of the madrassah and the abuses started from the Madrassah front and charged up students came out to physically confront the mouners
now actions of both were NOT (in my view) in service of Allah or grieve the massacre of Muhammad PBUH's family but clash of ego's and sectarian hatred and provocation. our section went in and treated the key trouble makers physically and it was either the fear or respect for the khaki dress that the situation was defused
according to locals, this was the only indecent that had ever happened in their area and normally Sunnis setup stalls of water and cold drinks for the mourners in respect of Imam Hussain r.a

in short,in my view Iranian khana ferhang and Saudi madrassah's contributed to sectarian violence in Pakistan and we were the victims and it becomes meaningless who started this first but both countries fanned the sectarianism and our leadership jsut wished it will go away and hoped that targeted killings wont exceed more that double digit numbers and will be evenly spaced to be easily forgotten by the general public but alas 911 happened and after Afghan invasion TTP just took over and rest is history

May god curse the salafists and destroye them and sent them to hell with ibn taymmia


It's funny al saud today consider the muslim brotherhood as terrorists organization while it was the Saudis who welcomed them and printed their books and many mb members became part of the saudi educational system

I think Muslim brotherhood was deadly against Saudis
Al Akhawn the killer of Anwar sadat was inspired by them and Aimen Al Zawahiri was also its member. it was Al Akhwan who raided grand mosque as well. there was bloody confrontation and there were many deaths. Saudis then executed all surviving Al Akhwan members who surrendered after the completion of the cleanup operation.

for some reason in Pakistan certain section blames the shias who had nothing to do with that incident but there as a different incident where the iranian pilgrims started chanting slogans and saudis just opened fire on them

 

[SALMAN F]

yea I would have liked relations with Israel but thats too late now. best time was in the 70s.
Iranian support of Hizbullah was political and a power struggle serving Islam and hating Israel is just an added bonus.

claims re TNFJ and ISO are not dead. I dont have the timeline of their inception but I have lived and grew in the time in the parts of Pakistan where the Urdu, Punjabi and Hazara community in Quetta belonging to shia faith got a boost right after the revolution. during the same time Jhang saw the emergence of a demented and repulsive Mullah Haq Nawaz Jhangvi and sipah Sahabah leading to the assassination of Iranian ambassador Sadiq Ganji


a common friend even took me to one of the ISO meeting after evening prayers we chanted death to America, Roosia , Israel and Sadam and watched the celebration of commemoration of Iranian Islamic revolution.
yes I am broad minded enough to have prayed behind people who pray with their hands open or closed in either mosques. I was even able to visit the Jumah mosque of shia's and see the Arif Hussaini who was assassinated on the orders of Gen Zia after which it became virtually impossible for a sunni to visit a shia place.

this passage below may not be related directly to what the subject matter of this thread is but I experienced it first hand and saw it in the light of Saudi/ Iran proxy war in our country.
during late 80s our unit was deployed in Azad Kashmir and our CO received a request to send a platoon for Muharram procession as a token appearance to pacify the tension in the remote village (I dont remember the name). the place had a visit by central leadership of TFJ and the deobandi community (normally known as wahabis) had setup the Sipah Sahabah shop there, they roamed in newly bought double cabin trucks and 4x4 vehicles and seemed to have ample funds, their modest buildings saw rapid upgrade and they suddenly got deep pockets to make their presence felt which our local ISI associates pointed (unofficially) at foreign funding.
and incidentally their madrassah+ Mosque happened to be in the moharram route from where they would spit , throw stones and hurl abuses on the mourners.
so we were supposed to assist the local DC and police in ensuring that no provocation took place from rooftops of the sensitive area and the mourners were able to pass without incident. there was also agreement with administration that mourners will stop the procession and sit down and wait out if there was call to prayers.
the troublesome people in the mosque en route started Zohr Azan earlier just to stall the procession and the troublesome people in the procession also decided to start beating their chests right in front of the madrassah and the abuses started from the Madrassah front and charged up students came out to physically confront the mouners
now actions of both were NOT (in my view) in service of Allah or grieve the massacre of Muhammad PBUH's family but clash of ego's and sectarian hatred and provocation. our section went in and treated the key trouble makers physically and it was either the fear or respect for the khaki dress that the situation was defused
according to locals, this was the only indecent that had ever happened in their area and normally Sunnis setup stalls of water and cold drinks for the mourners in respect of Imam Hussain r.a

in short,in my view Iranian khana ferhang and Saudi madrassah's contributed to sectarian violence in Pakistan and we were the victims and it becomes meaningless who started this first but both countries fanned the sectarianism and our leadership jsut wished it will go away and hoped that targeted killings wont exceed more that double digit numbers and will be evenly spaced to be easily forgotten by the general public but alas 911 happened and after Afghan invasion TTP just took over and rest is history


I think Muslim brotherhood was deadly against Saudis
Al Akhawn the killer of Anwar sadat was inspired by them and Aimen Al Zawahiri was also its member. it was Al Akhwan who raided grand mosque as well. there was bloody confrontation and there were many deaths. Saudis then executed all surviving Al Akhwan members who surrendered after the completion of the cleanup operation.

for some reason in Pakistan certain section blames the shias who had nothing to do with that incident but there as a different incident where the iranian pilgrims started chanting slogans and saudis just opened fire on them

Lyon are confusing the ikhwan army of bin saud which was created by him with the muslim brotherhood sadat was not killed by muslim brotherhood but by the egyptian islamic jihad

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Islamic_Jihad


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikhwan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure

 

[Full Moon]

Hahahah we all knew that since the 80s! A Kingdom which was made by the orders of British Masons. What else would it do? Wahabism invented to manipulate Islam, nothing else! The founder of Wahabism, Abdul Wahab is a well known British Zion Agent who worked to destroy Ottomans in Hejaz. It's not something we didnt knew. Unfortunately, we let US use Pakistan to sponsor Wahabism!

Abdul-Wahhab (and Ibn Taymiyah before him) did succeed in at least one thing. They did leave generations after generations with a well-established anti-Shia doctrine that is as invincible, and immune to change as it is possible to be.

 

[SALMAN F]

Abdul-Wahhab (and Ibn Taymiyah before him) did succeed in at least one thing. They did leave generations after generations with a well-established anti-Shia doctrine that is as invincible, and immune to change as it is possible to be.

May god curse them they are the reason behind terrorism today

 

[Max]

even before it comes from his mouth, i believe Salafist/wahhabist themselves have no doubt and are well aware that their ideology was spread by Petrodollar alliance, but like good slaves they will keep following dangerous Saudi Wahhabi cult bcoz of ego and slavery.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

May god curse them they are the reason behind terrorism today

its a weak logic and wrong precedent
did they incite terrorism themselves? did they propose use of sword and other intimidation on others to enforce their beliefs? Daesh, AL Qaeda , Taliban etc claim to be Muslims too and using your logic others curse our Prophet and our Holy Quran as well

even before it comes from his mouth, i believe Salafist/wahhabist themselves have no doubt and are well aware that their ideology was spread by Petrodollar alliance, but like good slaves they will keep following dangerous Saudi Wahhabi cult bcoz of ego and slavery.

avoid sectarianism no other Muslim sects are any better.

the so called moderate Beralvis are no better. in the name of Prophet Muhammad PBUH they have started a campaign of intimidation and violence. I have seen a disturbing clip were a guy is uttering expletives , cursing vulgarly and using the name of our BiBi Hazrat Aysha R.A Um Al Momineen in the same sentence (claiming to do all this in Her honor) and hitting Junaid Jamshed who was a famous celebrity turned evengalic Muslim supporting a beard and was blamed for making some remarks which people saw as disrespectful towards the wife of Holy Prophet PBUH ,despite his repentance and expressing his shame in recorded videos etc.


I bet you, if I shout out loud blaming a person in a crowd saying he said a word against Blasphemy law then the crowd might lynch him.

Iranians have also used their petro dollars to forward their ideology. I will only speak for my country where they also fund mosques and madrassas and I refuse to accept that it is purely for the love of Islam and the Imam ra.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

This is huge statement which he gave on American soil to Americans.

American media is deliberately not giving much attention to it. This is like, you (US here) mainly responsible for all this religious extremism mess in Muslim countries.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Lyon are confusing the ikhwan army of bin saud which was created by him with the muslim brotherhood sadat was not killed by muslim brotherhood but by the egyptian islamic jihad

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Islamic_Jihad


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikhwan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure

thanks for factual correction.
there is one take away from this is that we must avoid the "guilty by association" mentality.

bid'ah and border line shirk
are blamed on other sects of Islam and these accusations are not without reasons.
I dont follow the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah although I had to study him in my University requirement course in Islamic international university Islamabad and I have much objections to his followers but they are only criticisms just like I criticize both Beralvi and Shia stalwarts who act like pests (sorry for the lack of term) while forcing their devotion on others.

let me share an example with you. in Punjab province (I forgot the name of town). a Deobandi family was targeted deliberately by Beralvi (sufis) . they posted a picture of Prophet's PBUH shoe on the main gate of that property without the consent of its owners deliberately as a mischief and to provoke the owners.



. something similar to one below.
some Sunnis have made badges and other small pictures that they hang on their chest pocket next to their hearts as an expression of their devotion (and I respect that)

the leader of the family correctly objected to it and as he tried to remove the poster. the "devotees" who were waiting there pounced at him and started shouting and beating him and brought in more people and police blaming him for Blasphemy. through some miracle that family survived and sanity prevailed when someone argued that the act of posting itself was provocation and un-islamic (like building a mosque unlawfully in usurped land).

again talking only for my country, we have had a good mix of Muslim sects , shia sunnis have lived peacefully and respectfully or at least tolerated each other hence we as a nation had survived compared to what has happened in middle east


my purpose of all my posts in this thread is

to discourage blame storming at one sect and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
to keep the discussion civil and knowledgeable


in the spirit of

This is huge statement which he gave on American soil to Americans.

American media is deliberately not giving much attention to it. This is like, you (US here) mainly responsible for all this religious extremism mess in Muslim countries.

i agree its out of his character. his critics accuse him to be an overt and all out Western lackey (much more than his predecessors) who is completely on board with the western agenda against the middle east

and then this statement. hope he lives ling and does't fall victim to western reprisal like late king Shah Faisal did.
another constructive oddity he can do is make an unannounced and surprise meeting with Iranian political leadership which bypasses the intelligence of Saudi & Iranian clergy and find ways to reduce mutual hostilities but that might not happen in my lifetime because it will anger Israel, American Neocons, Iranian and Saudi Clergy as well

 

[Max]

avoid sectarianism no other Muslim sects are any better.

None of them is as violent and distructive as Petrodollar ideology.

the so called moderate Beralvis are no better. in the name of Prophet Muhammad PBUH they have started a campaign of intimidation and violence. I have seen a disturbing clip were a guy is uttering expletives , cursing vulgarly and using the name of our BiBi Hazrat Aysha R.A Um Al Momineen in the same sentence (claiming to do all this in Her honor) and hitting Junaid Jamshed who was a famous celebrity turned evengalic Muslim supporting a beard and was blamed for making some remarks which people saw as disrespectful towards the wife of Holy Prophet PBUH ,despite his repentance and expressing his shame in recorded videos etc.


I bet you, if I shout out loud blaming a person in a crowd saying he said a word against Blasphemy law then the crowd might lynch him.

Iranians have also used their petro dollars to forward their ideology. I will only speak for my country where they also fund mosques and madrassas and I refuse to accept that it is purely for the love of Islam and the Imam ra.

That campaign of violence was started by so called secular parliamentarians and Govt when they changed the oath and allow the protesters from Central Punjab to march on Islamabad. as for filthy language, There are Jahils/ignorants in every sect including Sunnis..

 

[EmeraldRabbit]

The clown price disowning "wahabbism" will be his saud tribe's downfall eventually.

the saud are long overdue to show their true colors, their allegiance is not to Islam, but to the west.

but true islam will remain always, no matter how much the sufis, rafidis and kafirs plot against it. history has proven it time and again.

 

[mohsen]

did they incite terrorism themselves? did they propose use of sword and other intimidation on others to enforce their beliefs? Daesh, AL Qaeda , Taliban etc claim to be Muslims too and using your logic others curse our Prophet and our Holy Quran as well

in answer to your first question, the answer is yes, they did incite terrorism directly.

about a year ago, two young wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, slaughtered their parents and fled to join ISIS, the reason was that their parents were against joining the ISIS. it created a havoc in Saudis media for advertising these fanatic ideas, in fact what that young boys did, was a direct order from ibn teymiah that gives permission to kill all infidels (kafir) even if they are your parents. It's the same excuse for all wahhabi terrorists; is he a kafir, then behead him, whether adult or child, man or woman!

Abdul wahhab is even more guilty, cause he decided to spread the ibn-teymiah fanatic ideas by brutal force and support from Al-Saud funds, basically they killed anyone who stood against them. so the first practical terrorist is abdul wahhab and his excuses were cites from Ibn-Taymiah.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

in answer to your first question, the answer is yes, they did incite terrorism directly.

about a year ago, two young wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, slaughtered their parents and fled to join ISIS, the reason was that their parents were against joining the ISIS. it created a havoc in Saudis media for advertising these fanatic ideas, in fact what that young boys did, was a direct order from ibn teymiah that gives permission to kill all infidels (kafir) even if they are your parents. It's the same excuse for all wahhabi terrorists; is he a kafir, then behead him, whether adult or child, man or woman!

Abdul wahhab is even more guilty, cause he decided to spread the ibn-teymiah fanatic ideas by brutal force and support from Al-Saud funds, basically they killed anyone who stood against them. so the first practical terrorist is abdul wahhab and his excuses were cites from Ibn-Taymiah.

sorry I disagree with you since the slain parents were against violence although they followed the same Saudi state sponsored sect.
I am not interested in discussing the jurisprudence of Ibn Taymiyah or make excuses for him, I had enough of it during my degree course in Islamic university in Islamabad back int he 90s.

you missed the point on purpose or by mistake. Ibn Tamiyah was a Muslim and so are all others who slaughter in the name of Islam. for any non-Muslim it is enough reason to hate on entire Islam and make derogatory remarks about Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad PBUH, I am not talking hypothetically but talking a regular occurrence here and talking about Muslim extremism the Iranian clergy is no better in its brutality towards Iranian civilians specially those punished on breaking the "morality" code. looking at how Iran stones women to death and how some Saudi mullahs praise Daesh or Al Qaeda.. any outsider just decides that the entire faith is unfortunately rotten along with its followers.

still dont get me? then there is no point in continuing to discuss any further.

bless your heart.

 

[mohsen]

sorry I disagree with you since the slain parents were against violence although they followed the same Saudi state sponsored sect.

Wahhabism is not a sect, it's a movement (aiming all Sunni sects) to ban those sources which highlights the similarities and brotherhood between Shiah and Sunni while advertises those sources which advertise the violence and killing of another sect of Muslims.
so when a Sunni (like those parents) don't accept those orders for violence, it means they are not a wahhabi either.

you missed the point on purpose or by mistake. Ibn Tamiyah was a Muslim and so are all others who slaughter in the name of Islam. for any non-Muslim it is enough reason to hate on entire Islam and make derogatory remarks about Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad PBUH, I am not talking hypothetically but talking a regular occurrence here and talking about Muslim extremism the Iranian clergy is no better in its brutality towards Iranian civilians specially those punished on breaking the "morality" code. looking at how Iran stones women to death and how some Saudi mullahs praise Daesh or Al Qaeda.. any outsider just decides that the entire faith is unfortunately rotten along with its followers.

still dont get me? then there is no point in continuing to discuss any further.

bless your heart.

Yes, Ibn Tamiyah was a Muslim, but a Muslim who calls other Muslims (whom he doesn't like) as infidel and then orders their death as a duty for Muslims.


Stoning is off topic, but it's enough to say that it's almost impossible to prove it, unless the culprits admit it freely, that's why western propaganda machine puts a woman in front of camera and she says I was stoned to death!!!

 

[Manidabest]

what does his statement mean?? is wahabism supported by west to be spread around deliberately?? is wahabism a destructive ideology supported by western countries & some muslim countries to spread chaos around the world??? isnt wahabism suppose to b a correct path and if yes then why west supported to spread it ?? there r many questions that need answers