Best COAS of Pakistan?

[Irfan Baloch]

Gen Zia

Excellent Commander
Excellent leader

loathe him or love him. I may differ with some of his policies but he was a diehard Pakistani and a patriot.
you may question his methods and his approached re Afghan jihad but that was need of the day and IT WORKED.. Abkar Bugatti never dared to go into mountains and fire rockets and GM syed of Jay Sindh just confined to interviews and books along with his Huqa.



he took no prisoners.

this Mullah Burka Aziz of lal Masjid would have been shiiting bricks even on the thought of stirring a mutiny in Islamabad, had it been Gen Zia in the office.

 

[VCheng]

Gen Zia

Excellent Commander
Excellent leader

loathe him or love him. I may differ with some of his policies but he was a diehard Pakistani and a patriot.
you may question his methods and his approached re Afghan jihad but that was need of the day and IT WORKED

he took no prisoners.

this Mullah Burka Aziz of lal Masjid would have been shiiting bricks even on the thought of stirring a mutiny in Islamabad, had it been Gen Zia in the office.

And yet, for all his patriotism, he was largely responsible for unleashing the radical religiosity monster that is corroding civil society in Pakistan these days.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And yet, for all his patriotism, he was largely responsible for unleashing the radical religiosity monster that is corroding civil society in Pakistan these days.

the Deobandi zealuts that formed Sipah sahabah used to spill boiling water over Muharam processions back in the early 70s in karachi, Azam Taqir (one of founding leaders, proudly showed off his battle scars which he got while slaying shia "heretics", long before Afghan Jihad)

Jamat Islami had declared Qaid E Azam , kafir e Azam and Pakistan, napakistan decades before Afghan Jihad. blaming Gen Zia is bit unfair.


I knew that Afghan Jihad will come up when we talk Gen Zia.
both US and Pakistan agreed that religious Zeal was needed to fuel the war on the Soviet Heretics. what he did then was right at that time.


if he had not died under suspicious circumstances along with some Americans (putting all conspiracies to one side) then things would have been different.

the majority of Afghan leaders believed and respected him. he had the religious leaders in Pakistan under his boot. And like I said
he never ever discriminated when he dealt with trouble makers be it nationalists, secularist, ultra left wingers or religious extremists.

granted that Afghan Jihad strategy is debatable but it worked. Soviets not only left Afghanistan unceremoniously but the country that so arrogantly threatened Pakistan to be wiped from the face of the earth (U2 shot down incident) ceased to exist itself

the religious extremism was a fallout and we suffered due to his death and the clueless leadership that played the musical chair drama from that time to this day.

I am talking about his leadership and the way he ran the military and transformed it, which is not in the limelight of the general public and the media.

you and others can nail him on the Afghan issue because he is not here to reply now so +1 to you.
but if he was, I know we wont have been having this conversation.


Haqqanis and Mullah Omar might have been asking us where to hand over Osama and Al zuahiri? Kabul? Peshawar or else where.

 

[VCheng]

IB: Please note I said he "unleashed" the monster - not created it. And I would also point out that the way he ran the military is exactly what also seeded fundamentalism in its ranks that is now causing grave issues. Of course it is also raging rampantly through civil society as well.

In short, he sold the soul of the nation to serve USA's goals. Some "leader"!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

IB: Please note I said he "unleashed" the monster - not created it. And I would also point out that the way he ran the military is exactly what also seeded fundamentalism in its ranks that is now causing grave issues. Of course it is also raging rampantly through civil society as well.

In short, he sold the soul of the nation to serve USA's goals. Some "leader"!

point taken

thanks.. ends justify means and all that.


he only did what Khan Liyakat did already
we were going to be in American block right from start

only natural

 

[Sinnerman108]

Gen Zia

Excellent Commander
Excellent leader

loathe him or love him. I may differ with some of his policies but he was a diehard Pakistani and a patriot.
you may question his methods and his approached re Afghan jihad but that was need of the day and IT WORKED.. Abkar Bugatti never dared to go into mountains and fire rockets and GM syed of Jay Sindh just confined to interviews and books along with his Huqa.



he took no prisoners.

this Mullah Burka Aziz of lal Masjid would have been shiiting bricks even on the thought of stirring a mutiny in Islamabad, had it been Gen Zia in the office.

And yet, for all his patriotism, he was largely responsible for unleashing the radical religiosity monster that is corroding civil society in Pakistan these days.

IB: Please note I said he "unleashed" the monster - not created it. And I would also point out that the way he ran the military is exactly what also seeded fundamentalism in its ranks that is now causing grave issues. Of course it is also raging rampantly through civil society as well.

In short, he sold the soul of the nation to serve USA's goals. Some "leader"!

That is not correct.
The Mullahs cut loose because people who came after Gen Zia were not capable of controlling them.
Also weigh in the fact, that From Gen Zia to PPP was not a smooth handover, it was an abrupt change heavily influenced by foreign powers.

now, as for the sell the soul is concerned, You are very ill informed and short sighted.

 

[VCheng]

point taken

thanks.. ends justify means and all that.


he only did what Khan Liyakat did already
we were going to be in American block right from start

only natural

The reasons why Pakistan "naturally" belonged in the US block are still valid I would like to argue, but to do so in this thread would be off topic. I am sure we can discuss that elsewhere.

 

[Farah Sohail]

The reasons why Pakistan "naturally" belonged in the US block are still valid I would like to argue, but to do so in this thread would be off topic. I am sure we can discuss that elsewhere.

Yes sure... Plzz I would request, to let this thread remain on topic.. Thanks

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

My personal favorite would be Gen Zia ul Haq or Gen Ayub Khan..

None of us here, like Gen Kiyani?

Gen Kiyani would have been amongst my most fav, if he had taken some action on drones..Not acting on drones have been his greatest negative point..Other than this, I think Gen Kiyani has done a commendable job, in tough circumstances

general Ziya - ul - HaQ shaheed , mard-a-momin <-----------> mard-a-HaQ

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The reasons why Pakistan "naturally" belonged in the US block are still valid I would like to argue, but to do so in this thread would be off topic. I am sure we can discuss that elsewhere.

I agree this discussion deserves a dedicated thread.
you pushed it to one political aspect too much and termed it as selling soul to US.. which is actually Blasphemous.
how could you say such thing about USA ? is beyond me

my praise is for him as a COAS which is actually the thread title.

 

[mdcp]

We are still paying price for zia, yaya n bhutoo

 

[jbond197]

Pervez Musharraf..

 

[VCheng]

I agree this discussion deserves a dedicated thread.
you pushed it to one political aspect too much and termed it as selling soul to US.. which is actually Blasphemous.
how could you say such thing about USA ? is beyond me

my praise is for him as a COAS which is actually the thread title.

I only speak the truth, now and always!

 

[Farah Sohail]

I only speak the truth, now and always!

Plz I would again request, to take this discussion elsewhere, and let this thread remain on topic plzzz

 

[VCheng]

Plz I would again request, to take this discussion elsewhere, and let this thread remain on topic plzzz

Best COAS of Pakistan?

Yet to take office, I am sure. None of the previous occupants of this post have done their sworn duties to the standards required of them.