Best COAS of Pakistan?

[mjnaushad]

LOL. Well after witnessing farcical democracy in the 90s and again afte 2008 elections, give me dictatorship anytime. Common man was much better during the dictator than the so-called democracy.

Thats the problem of Pakistan.....we want dictatorship in democracy and democracy in dictatorship......

 

[MastanKhan]

Gen. Zia is like an insult for Mard momin and Mard Haq.

He was nothing but yet another puppit dictator backed by uncle SAM, who served uncle SAM till his death.

Zia was indeed a sick man but he was no puppet of the u s--as a matter of fact he is the one who entangled the u s in aghanistan--the u s had no interest against the russian occupation of agh----Zia tricked the americans in.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Unfortunately for the Pakistan, The Officers of Pak Army that Pakistan inherited in 1947 were mediocre at best. While Pakistan Air Force Inherited officers of the caliber of Asghar Khan and Nur Khan, Pakistan Army got Musa Khan and Ayub Khan. While Ayub Khan was a very likeable fellow, he was not too bright.

Ayub Khan ruled the country from 1958 to 1969 and left in charge one of the worst Army Chief in charge ( Yahya Khan). This was no accident that he picked the worst officer and promoted him to be the Army chief. He knew from his personal experience, the Power wielded by an Army chief so he picked the weakest officer so that there was no threat to himself. Since then, it has been the tradition in Pakistan that no matter who is in power they always pick the weakest officer to take over as Army chief so that this Army Chief does not present a threat to them (the head of the State).

Bhutto picked Zia ul Haq because Jordan's King Hussain told Bhutto to promote Zia as " he was loyal like a dog". Zia ul Haq had served in Jordan on deputation and helped King Hussain put down Palestinian revolt/rebellion. Nawaz Sharif picked Musharaf over three other more senior and higher caliber officers because he was a "Miskeen Mohajir" and as such less of a threat. One of the officers senior to Musharaf was Lt. General Ali Kuli Khan (a superb officer) who was superseded by Nawaz because Ali Kuli was Asghar Khan's son in law and Nawaz did not trust him because of that.

Because the Army chief appointment's are highly political in nature, we never get the best person promoted to that position. In fact in Pak Army the, general staff appointments are highly politicized and often we do not get a fighting soldier type Generals. Generally, we get the yes man kind of Generals.

 

[RazPaK]

In order:

Zia
Ayub
Musharraf
Kiyani

Zia haters can go to hell. He is dead and cannot defend himself.

 

[pakfoj]

I think that Military leaders are one of the most smartest and intelligent people on the earth. whether they are Pakistani, indian or american!!

 

[fatman17]

What views, do u ppl have abt Gen Wahid Kaakar? Never heard anything much abt him, except the fact tht he denied an extension..He doesnt even appear on tv.. How was he?

professional soldier.

 

[third eye]

I have often wondered why did Ayub promote himself to Field Marshal .

Could anyone update on this ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

In order:

Zia
Ayub
Musharraf
Kiyani

.

Agree with only Zia. Ayub and Musharraf on the other hand were terrible when it came to army tactics /achieving military objectives. Ayub and Musharraf on the other hand were "relatively" good presidents aka CEOs but utterly pathetic when it comes to "Chiefs of army".


On Kiyani, the jury is still out and it is too early to call one way or the other. I consider him responsible for Salala incident. He should have resigned after the martyrdom of our precious jawans. Why were they posted on front line without proper air cover? there are many other incidents where our troops deployed in FATA were not provided adequate air cover and left there in the mountains to die unprotected.

Ayub pushed us directly to one war, and indirectly to the second war. The two wars that could have easily been avoided saving 1000s of our jawans and officers from death, injuries, and imprisonment.

For 1965 he was directly responsible. He knew India will attack Pakistan's soft belly to stop Pakistan's push into Kashmir. And yet he left Pakistan defenseless along the borders of Punjab and Sindh. 6 september was a shock to ordinary civilians but it was clear as a sun to even junior level officers. What the heck was he thinking?

For his role in 1965 Chief of army, he should have been tried in the military court (let alone his role in the coup against civilian government). And then he had the stupidity to call himself field marshal? my foot.

Similarly 1971 war could have been avoided and yet Ayub and his chamcha general Yahya didn't care. Ok so the trouble started in E. Pakistan, but Pakistan could have easily made a deal to evacuate most of our troops or should not have deployed 40,000+ to begin with.

Fast forward to Musharraf. He committed two major blunders from army point of view.

1. kargil. He allowed 1000s of our precious jawans to face off Indians and this ****** did not plan for air cover. My heart cries out thinking about all those NLF jawans and officers who were butchered by the Indian air force and their laser guided bombs.

2. Not stopping Nawaz Sharif from exploding Nukies. Army always had control of nukes and he could have refused but he didn't. Musharraf had no plans in place to stop jingoistic response to Indians explosions. We had Indian army and Indian economy by the throat and we let it get away. Pakistan's nukes are not some shurli pataka to be fired on Shab-e-barat. These were tactical weapons only to be revealed under the most dire circumstances such as actual war.

As I said earlier, the thread is about rating them as army chiefs and not presidents/CEOs.


Ayub perhaps was the best president/CEO as he kept our economy growing and keeping our people prosperous. Too bad the Islamist and Commie Bhutto looted all that and destroyed everything that was built during Ayub's time.

So there you have it. An honest and unemotional analysis of the generals in your list.

No disrespect intended.


peace

p.s. Not to show off but just to make sure my comments above are not taken as less than serious. Our family has sacrificed in both the wars. One of my uncles became Shaheed on the last day of 65 war. We are proud of his shahadat. His wife, our aunt raised the kids as single mother (with the support of family and the army) but never cried at least not when we were around. But she surely would have missed her husband. her kids grew up as yateem. Her daughters got married without their father wishing them and praying for them on the day of Shadi. yes we understand the value of Shahadat.

But generals should guard their jawans as their own kids, and protect them even at their own cost, and use them only when the war is absolutely necessary, and if it is, then send them with full protection, and 110% planning.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Agree with only Zia. Ayub and Musharraf on the other hand were terrible when it came to army tactics /achieving military objectives. Ayub and Musharraf on the other hand were "relatively" good presidents aka CEOs but utterly pathetic when it comes to "Chiefs of army".


On Kiyani, the jury is still out and it is too early to call one way or the other. I consider him responsible for Salala incident. He should have resigned after the martyrdom of our precious jawans. Why were they posted on front line without proper air cover? there are many other incidents where our troops deployed in FATA were not provided adequate air cover and left there in the mountains to die unprotected.

Ayub pushed us directly to one war, and indirectly to the second war. The two wars that could have easily been avoided saving 1000s of our jawans and officers from death, injuries, and imprisonment.

For 1965 he was directly responsible. He knew India will attack Pakistan's soft belly to stop Pakistan's push into Kashmir. And yet he left Pakistan defenseless along the borders of Punjab and Sindh. 6 september was a shock to ordinary civilians but it was clear as a sun to even junior level officers. What the heck was he thinking?

For his role in 1965 Chief of army, he should have been tried in the military court (let alone his role in the coup against civilian government). And then he had the stupidity to call himself field marshal? my foot.

Similarly 1971 war could have been avoided and yet Ayub and his chamcha general Yahya didn't care. Ok so the trouble started in E. Pakistan, but Pakistan could have easily made a deal to evacuate most of our troops or should not have deployed 40,000+ to begin with.

Fast forward to Musharraf. He committed one major blunders from army point of view.

1. kargil. He allowed 1000s of our precious jawans to face off Indians and this gadha did not plan for air cover. My heart cries out thinking about all those NLF jawans and officers who were butchered by the Indian air force and their laser guided bombs.


Karamat was a good guy but he should have stood up to Nawaz Sharif and stopped him from exploding Nukies. Army always had control of nukes and he could have refused but he didn't. Musharraf had no plans in place to stop jingoistic response to Indians explosions. We had Indian army and Indian economy by the throat and we let it get away. Pakistan's nukes are not some shurli pataka to be fired on Shab-e-barat. These were tactical weapons only to be revealed under the most dire circumstances such as actual war.

As I said earlier, the thread is about rating them as army chiefs and not presidents/CEOs.


Ayub perhaps was the best president/CEO as he kept our economy growing and keeping our people prosperous. Too bad the Islamist and Commie Bhutto looted all that and destroyed everything that was built during Ayub's time.

So there you have it. An honest and unemotional analysis of the generals in your list.

No disrespect intended.


peace

p.s. Not to show off but just to make sure my comments above are not taken as less than serious. Our family has sacrificed in both the wars. One of my uncles became Shaheed on the last day of 65 war. We are proud of his shahadat. His wife, our aunt raised the kids as single mother (with the support of family and the army) but never cried at least not when we were around. But she surely would have missed her husband. her kids grew up as yateem. Her daughters got married without their father wishing them and praying for them on the day of Shadi. yes we understand the value of Shahadat.

But generals should guard their jawans as their own kids, and protect them even at their own cost, and use them only when the war is absolutely necessary, and if it is, then send them with full protection, and 110% planning.

pps - ignore my previous post. It incorrectly attributes nuke tests to Musharraf. Musharraf was in fact third in line. So he is not to be blamed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

General Zia Ul Haq was the worst Head of state in Pakistan. He literally took Pakistan back by few decades.

 

[Musalman]

I have often wondered why did Ayub promote himself to Field Marshal .

Could anyone update on this ?

He thought he won the 65 war

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

And yet, for all his patriotism, he was largely responsible for unleashing the radical religiosity monster that is corroding civil society in Pakistan these days.

it's not him , in fact it's the people of PakisTan who are smart enough to decide for themselves about what path to choose ; but if they are following 1sLaam strictly so what !? who are you to decide what's right or wrong for them ... ??

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

it's not him , in fact it's the people of PakisTan who are smart enough to decide for themselves about what path to choose ; but if they are following 1sLaam strictly so what !? who are you to decide what's right or wrong for them ... ??

who are you and who am I to judge even that???

(who is following Islam and who isnt)


quite frankly, i personally could damn less care because that's their own personal business


as for the side discussion that's going on -- mistakes and short-sightedness was there, but the overall '''mission'' (the anti soviet resistance) was a noble one

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

In order:

Zia
Ayub
Musharraf
Kiyani

Zia haters can go to hell. He is dead and cannot defend himself.

In order:

Zia
Ayub
Kiyani
musharraf (responsible for condomization going on in PakisTani society , e.g. today's sex-centered media )

Zia haters can go to hell. right now he is not among us so he just simply can not defend himself for his acts during the days of his duty to PakisTan ...

gen. Ziya - uL - HaQ was martyred while he was in his army uniform on active duty as the commander-in-chief of PakisTan military in an aircrash which was in fact a sabotage planned by enemyies of PakisTan ...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i'm curious as to what metrics and parameters you guys are using to determine the best from the bestest....


this thread is emotional, in nature.......so therefore, quite useless!