First of all a request to all the the members please do not bring the level of discussion on this forum to the level of BR
Secondly about PAF having BVR back in 2008
Well nothing was ever disclosed officially.So official status was that we did not have BVR's then
But sometime back a very respected member of this forum disclosed that we did have BVR's.
Here are his posts and links:
I have a picture of this missile. It was modified by Pakistan. Picture clearly shows that it is a missile and not a bomb.
I did not realize that it was such a big mystery and no one has ever seen this missile before.
May be there is a reason that PAF has never released one. I Will check before posting it on the net. But until then, please be rest assured that it is a Fire & Forget BVRAAM with the reported range of 120km.
PGM and AAM look very different. When you see the picture, it will end all speculation.
Sorry guys. Cannot release the image. However, check out the "R Darter" and its Pakistani copy on the right. Missile is an all aspect BVRAAM has already been inducted in PAF.
For Pictures:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/409647-post17.html
Well! I took pictures. For your information.
I will disclose the name that Pakistan has given it. It is named "Crescent Arrow"
Pakistan has acquired several members of the Denel Darter family with TOT. These may include the "Raptors as well. They are not only being tweaked to Pak specification but inducted into PAF. They include both BVRAAM and PGMs. So go figure.
PAF does not want the full information out at this time but will disclose when appropriate. They agreed for this picture to be out but will not provide full details now beside its name.
When, few years ago, I disclosed for the first time on Pakdef that Navy was going for U-214, many did not believe me at that time as well. So nothing new now as well. I cannot help the skeptics or rather care whether they believe it or not.
I really do not the contentious discussion above.
PAF already has a BVRAAM
PAF also has mission specific PGMs as well like Graphite bombs that many may not have even heard of.
Reports in Pakistani newspaper are tainted or written by journalists who have no knowledge. Basing your response on these reports are then as bad and misleading as the actual article is.
There has been information that PAF has already used PGM in Swat.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/409169-post12.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/409647-post17.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/410343-post33.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/411204-post53.html
Now I don't know how credible this information is.But about the poster:pshamim is no xyz member of this forum.Rather as far as I know he is a ex-PAF officer and was involved in F-16 program as well.So whatever he says is taken quite seriously on this forum.
Now you consider this info authentic or not its up to you.
About 2008 incident.Well most probably if the incursion into Pakistani airspace did happen it would have been to check and get certain info about PAF like:
Does PAF possess BVR capability? SAM locations in case some of them were lighted up.Other Electronic Intelligence.PAF's reaction time.
Why was incursion carried out and What was found,only time will tell. Were Indian planes locked or not only time will tell.So do not engage into discussion where no one can prove anything. About F-7 locking on to SU-30.I do not know if this happened again only time will tell what really happened. Nothing serious happened in our airspace so why is it so important to know that whether PAF defended with stones or called in a Baba to carry out black magic?
But what our Indian friends fail to understand is that SU-30's track range of 200 Km is for a certain RCS(5 m^2).Similarly F-16's radar range is for a standard 5m^2. But since MKI specially a loaded MKI will have RCS somewhere between 15 m^2-20m^2.So practically all aircrafts will detect each other at almost same distance.This is what has been discussed in the article at start of the thread.Also there are no missiles that can be used at detection range of radar. So eventually by the time anyone is in position to shoot everyone will be in position to fire at each other as missiles also have somewhat similar ranges.(above mentioned things are true for only a theoretical scenario of same altitude and head on engagement.This will not be true in real engagements,but since we are discussing on paper so we need to put both side on level playing field.In real world any side can use the situation to its advantage)
Couple with that one side will be fighting under its own radar cover i.e even if AI radar do not detect enemy aircraft Ground Radars and AEW&C and AWACS can.So Ground controllers can guide defending aircrafts if their AI do not yet see the enemy aircraft.
So it comes down to team work, tactics,individual pilot skills and overall utilization of assets not just one on one capabilities of fighter aircrafts,these can only be judged in a real war and people on both sides do not want that.
Also consider the fact that we usually analyze the aircrafts as if the are carrying out long range interception,where fighters are initially out of range of each other and they travel towards each other and finally the fight begins.In Indo-Pak scenario this may not be true as we are neighbours and an interceptor may be launched as enemy aircraft enter friendly airspace.In this case the distance between the two fighters may be within range of their radars and missiles.So it comes down to tactics right away.
So the point of my post is that though SU-30 may be superior in one on one on paper but in real scenario all its capabilities can be countered if tactics are developed against them. So eventually its all about tactics of two air forces and how they utilize their assets.
And please stick to the topic of the thread
regards,
taha
.....just looking for some "technical facts"
