Belarus President Arrive in Islamabad for 3 days visit

[A-Team]

Yes but the smaller less powerful countries get bullied around by Germany . have a look at what Happened to Greece . Germany bullied it into deals that it didn't want to get into but it had to because it was a part of EU . EU is a sinking ship and people are going out of it . UK was wise enough to see that .

You are jumping ships now

 

[Articulate]

We need a narrative along the lines of EU, where by we move on from zero sum games into one where everyone wins.
It is about the size of the pie my friend, why have a smaller one where each one of us fight it out like wolves, but let us have a big *** pie where everyone eats to the full

This is happening in South Asia right now. My post in another thread.

You can see we(South Asians) have already started taking the first steps towards building an EU like condition in South Asia.

Infra is being built for seamless movement, but today any Indian can drive down to Thailand (if s/he is willing to brave some really creaky bridges) !
We have visa on arrival already for India, BD, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar.

Afghanistan will soon join BIMSTEC.
---------------------------------

India, Nepal, Bhutan, BD, Myanmar and Thailand are some of the most blessed countries in the world. We have so much natural resources, we have labour, we have educated populations, we have massive coastlines.

And yet we were involved in being against each other. Unlike Pakistan, the rest of us are moving ahead.

So in the last one year itself, we have done work which was not accomplished in decades!

India, BD and Myanmar all finally resolved their land and water boundary disputes between each other by massive compromises on everyone's part.
India, BD and Myanmar then went ahead and signed along with Bhutan and Nepal agreements to form the first building blocks to a single economic zone.


For starters we have signed for vehicles. Now our vehicles can move in each other's territory which ensures transit of goods seamlessly like it is in EU. Now we are all building infra linking each of us with the others.

Since saarc is blocked, we are now doing all this under the aegis of BIMSTEC.

WE (BIMSTEC) will dominate manufacturing in the future. We are moving towards ensuring prosperity of our people. We will not allow Pakistan to block us all.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/banglade...ar-against-india.453522/page-12#ixzz4MDdxyA8n

 

[Khan_21]

You are jumping ships now

In EU like block afghanistan will get even more handicapped than it is now. Have a look at how British or germans are complaining about Romanians and Bulgarians coming to their country. EU like block is not feasable in an area where two regional powers are at loggerheads with each other since 70 years.

 

[WhyCry]

He is here for those famous lahore "Dahe Bally"

Thats punjabi dish... Don't you dare.. Oh well you might be punjabi as well. Enjoy brother

 

[A-Team]

In EU like block afghanistan will get even more handicapped than it is now. Have a look at how British or germans are complaining about Romanians and Bulgarians coming to their country. EU like block is not feasable in an area where two regional powers are at loggerheads with each other since 70 years.

So how is Afghanistan handicapped in the situation? Afghanistan is not Germany but more like Romania, so with free movement of labour it's a win for us.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Time to get these

you know , you have a major problem Sir .. every time a representative visit Pakistan you post some Rumors about Defense deals or discussion on going .. without providing a shred of Evidence or anything you just keep on posting things like a wild guess or shooting a arrow in dark if it hits the mark its all YAY , and if it doesn't than you just wait till the next Country representative Visit Pakistan.. I don't know what is exactly your problem but you gotta Think for 10 seconds before you post something ..

 

[A-Team]

you know , you have a major problem Sir .. every time a representative visit Pakistan you post some Rumors about Defense deals or discussion on going .. without providing a shred of Evidence or anything you just keep on posting things like a wild guess or shooting a arrow in dark if it hits the mark its all YAY , and if it doesn't than you just wait till the next Country representative Visit Pakistan.. I don't know what is exactly your problem but you gotta Think for 10 seconds before you post something ..

lol, take it easy on him man

Probably he has sources for this.

 

[Khan_21]

So how is Afghanistan handicapped in the situation? Afghanistan is not Germany but more like Romania, so with free movement of labour it's a win for us.

Yes win for you but not for other countries. They might not like it. I prefer ASEAN . More relaxed and not as claustrophobic as EU. But for that Afghanistan has to develop for 10-15 years and India-Pakistan has to solve its problems.

 

[Hammad Arshad Qureshi]

My narrative is simple, let us go of the past as there are no white doves in our part of the region.
Let us solve the fundamental issues be the durand line, water issues, proxies etc through dialogue.
Let us respect each other sovereignty and open all routes for commerce.

Instead for wrangling with each other and be considered as backward region should empower each other to compete with the rest of the world. What are we lacking that the developed world has? Nothing we just need to get our shit together and move beyond Zero Sum games.

Simplistic yes, but does give a place to start.



There you go, self defeating position. Today you are strong, the next day I will be strong and this circus will continue.

We need a narrative along the lines of EU, where by we move on from zero sum games into one where everyone wins.
It is about the size of the pie my friend, why have a smaller one where each one of us fight it out like wolves, but let us have a big *** pie where everyone eats to the full

Yes that is absolutely everyone in Pakistan wants . But what about the TTP and BLA training camps and what about Indian consulates in Afghanistan. Is their any incentive to those. Because we can't move ahead and say that we want to improve relationship and commerce at the same time supporting anti Pakistan elements

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Unlike Pakistan, the rest of us are moving ahead.

Good for you. You really need to do lot of moving to clear out the detritus in Ganga.

some of the most blessed countries in the world.

Yeh. They bloody well are. 1947 was a fraud but a blessing disguised as fraud. I salute that "fraudee" Jinnah for this at least. We escaped from the "blessed".

The only real economic power in this region is China. That is going to be a hyperpower some day. Even countries on other side of the planet like UK are taking stock of this new emerging reality. Is Pakistan standing? Ball*ocks. Pakistan is and must do everything have open roads to China. If Indian's can drive on creaky bridges to Thailand (two bit player compared to China) or Bangladesh (one bit player) Pakistani's can drive to China on newly built or being built expressways.

I am least bothered about religion but I entirely support the total restriction on the Radcliffe Line. For now Pakistan must concentrate on opening up to the largest economy on earth and making cultural, legal and social changes so it can learn from the Chinese economic miracle.

As regards Afghanistan, well to me it has the same relationship with Pakistan as Ireland with UK. Despite all the angst the fact is both countries have common future. I strongly believe that all Afghan refugees should be given Pakistani citizenship. The focus should be on economic uplift. Over time Afghanistan will come over to Pakistan. It is in our DNA. I also Iran comes over as well. But for now economics is priority and China is economic superpower. You can't go wrong there. For instance what product can the Afghans buy from India that is better or cheaper then Chinese? Other than hand pulled rickshaws from India I can't think of any. I read about Chinese train service to Afghanistan. That tells us where we are heading.

The real contenders in this region are not Pak/India, the former is too small. The real contenders are China/India. I know where to place my bets on.

 

[jupiter2007]

Going back to the topic....

Does anyone know why Belarus withdraw their twenty five Su-27 from the service?

 

[RealNapster]

Thats punjabi dish... Don't you dare.. Oh well you might be punjabi as well. Enjoy brother

Well, I am Pakhtoon. But i love Dahe bhaly.

 

[Articulate]

Good for you. You really need to do lot of moving to clear out the detritus in Ganga.


Yeh. They bloody well are. 1947 was a fraud but a blessing disguised as fraud. I salute that "fraudee" Jinnah for this at least. We escaped from the "blessed".

The only real economic power in this region is China. That is going to be a hyperpower some day. Even countries on other side of the planet like UK are taking stock of this new emerging reality. Is Pakistan standing? Ball*ocks. Pakistan is and must do everything have open roads to China. If Indian's can drive on creaky bridges to Thailand (two bit player compared to China) or Bangladesh (one bit player) Pakistani's can drive to China on newly built or being built expressways.

I am least bothered about religion but I entirely support the total restriction on the Radcliffe Line. For now Pakistan must concentrate on opening up to the largest economy on earth and making cultural, legal and social changes so it can learn from the Chinese economic miracle.

As regards Afghanistan, well to me it has the same relationship with Pakistan as Ireland with UK. Despite all the angst the fact is both countries have common future. I strongly believe that all Afghan refugees should be given Pakistani citizenship. The focus should be on economic uplift. Over time Afghanistan will come over to Pakistan. It is in our DNA. I also Iran comes over as well. But for now economics is priority and China is economic superpower. You can't go wrong there. For instance what product can the Afghans buy from India that is better or cheaper then Chinese? Other than hand pulled rickshaws from India I can't think of any. I read about Chinese train service to Afghanistan. That tells us where we are heading.

The real contenders in this region are not Pak/India, the former is too small. The real contenders are China/India. I know where to place my bets on.

That is a very flawed point of view you are taking. That perhaps has to do with a lack of creativity or iron clad conventions in thought processes on your part.


1. If Pakistan opens up to China not just in terms of trade but also processes and thoughts it would be welcome for India as that it would reduce jihadi mentality of Pakistani's. It would also enable Pakistanis to finally start factories and get jobs again - which again would reduce the number and intensity of those who wish to explode themselves in India or Afghanistan as a way to please their God.

This incidentally is the view of the Dove's in Govt. of India. That jobs and gainful employment and a counter-cultural wind (away from Arabs that is) would bring about a major change in Pakistan's behaviour and it would be a beneficial for India in the long run to have such a Pakistan. It would be more fruitful to negotiate with a more rational, more practical and less religious-drug induced Pakistan leading to long term peace.

On the other hand, if Pakistan opens up to China for trade without opening up its processes and thoughts and remains a mere toll booth for China, India would still win.
Because the odds would be that Chinese would utterly come to dominate any trade in Pakistan and Pakistan would become a major captive like market for China. Chinese factories would not shift to Pakistan in such a scenario but would be able to export their products even more cheaply (owing to easier transport) and preferential trade agreements.

This would lead to increased religiosity and mass unemployement in Pakistan which would lead to creation of more terrorists which would lead to massive instability in Pakistan. Which would be harmful to India in the short run but disastrous to Pakistan in the long run.

This is also the view of Hawk's in GoI. That massively(not incrementally) increased jihadism in Pakistan is to India's benefit as it would remove Pakistan as a viable power.

Whatever be the case, it is sure that CPEC will change Pakistan. Whichever of the two scenario's happens, India stands to gain either ways.

2. The point that 'what product can Afghanistan buy from India that it cannot from China' is completely flawed. China trades with every nation on this planet. Period.
If your statement were correct then India would not have anything to export to, to any country on the planet. India's exports around $ 280-300 Billion each year.

3. India's push to East is crucial for reasons you cannot comprehend easily. Our push to Myanmar ensures a plentiful supply of raw materials for our growth for decades to come. And further connectivity with Vietnam from Thailand is to ensure that India plugs itself into the electronics manufacturing space because all the supply chains for electronics manufacturing are only in South East Asia.

Govt. of India has identified that Electronics manufacturing is the new 'oil / black gold' of the 21st century. Infact, the bill of electronic imports is set to surpass the oil imports in India by 2020. We are going all guns blazing to ensure we do not miss out on this wave for the coming 50 years.

FYI: The roads are being built and upgraded as we speak. In the end we too will drive down on expressways - all the way from New Delhi to Vietnam. Or rather Wagah to Vietnam.

@Syed.Ali.Haider @Oscar
Regards

 

[A-Team]

Yes that is absolutely everyone in Pakistan wants . But what about the TTP and BLA training camps and what about Indian consulates in Afghanistan. Is their any incestive to those. Because we can't move ahead and say that we want to improve relationship and commerce at the same time supporting anti Pakistan elements

Good question.

Let us put our complaints on the table, both Pakistan and Afghanistan vis-a-vis each other.
Something like TTP, BLA, India using Afghan soil, while Afghan complaints like Haqqani network, Afghan Talis... etc

Then we take action against these complaints and then we ask China to be third party to observe how we both are doing.

Sounds good to you?

If it does sound like reasonable proposition then guess what Afghanistan already offered this to Pakistan so that China can act as guarantor and Pakistan turned this offer down.

So little soul searching needed on your side my friend

Yes win for you but not for other countries. They might not like it. I prefer ASEAN . More relaxed and not as claustrophobic as EU. But for that Afghanistan has to develop for 10-15 years and India-Pakistan has to solve its problems.

Well you and others get to access our minerals, transit routes etc... so it is a win-win

That is idea of having open region. Do you know how much positive effect it will have if Pakistan opens trading routes towards India? I hear it is significant.

So think out of the box my friend

 

[Super Falcon]

Welcome to president of Belarus and dignitaries with him with open arms

May be they need to enhance trade and cooperation with Pakistan due to CPEC They want have peace of a pie too