What's new

Beginning of Women Rights in Human Civilizations.

Here is my take, take it or leave it-

The beginnings of subjugation of women is conflated with the property rights.

In the beginning, when we were hunter gatherers and there was no private property, everything belonged to the community. Once we settled and grew into agricultural societies the concept of personal property and the inherent advantages of owning the same (ie proto capitalism) came about. Men being inherently stronger could keep the property by force and once that happened the female goose was cooked.

The only way for women to attain equality is to fix property rights. Their ability to obtain and keep capital. This includes inheritance, equal pay and all the rest of that. Once that is in effect, the rest will follow.

You cannot force society to change attitudes, it will change automatically once women have the same financial heft as men. It will never change if they don't.
 
Well ! Let me clear the facts .

Humans Societies in beginning were matrilineal in nature .
Mother Goddess and related Figurines were most worshiped things .

Around 5000 years ago things changed with coming of Male dominated societies .
And this phenomena is still in existence .

In future , I am expecting equality between Males and Females , Rather than one oppressing the other .

Prophet Adams is first human and he equally treat eve very well

Here is my take, take it or leave it-

The beginnings of subjugation of women is conflated with the property rights.

In the beginning, when we were hunter gatherers and there was no private property, everything belonged to the community. Once we settled and grew into agricultural societies the concept of personal property and the inherent advantages of owning the same (ie proto capitalism) came about. Men being inherently stronger could keep the property by force and once that happened the female goose was cooked.

The only way for women to attain equality is to fix property rights. Their ability to obtain and keep capital. This includes inheritance, equal pay and all the rest of that. Once that is in effect, the rest will follow.

You cannot force society to change attitudes, it will change automatically once women have the same financial heft as men. It will never change if they don't.

Here is my reply, accept it or leave it

World first occupation was farming and Adam and eve are husband and wife and they are not property of each other.

Does Islam oppress women? Do they have no rights? What is their status? Their only purpose is to serve family? And so many other questions are asked regarding the women in Islam. There are many misconceptions about it. Have you ever picked up the Quran and read what Allah says about women? No----then why blindly believing on media and/or scuttlebutt.

Before going further, I would like to tell that women liberation was not started by radical political groups unlike the women liberation movement in 20th century. But in 7th century women was given the rights by Allah and it was revealed to Muhammad (saw).
Quran and Sunnah clearly talks about the rights of women along with certain duties.



A woman is a mother and it is said that "Paradise lies under her feet" (reported by Al Tabarani).

In an authentic hadith the Prophet (peace be upon him)(SAAS) was asked by a man: 'Who is the one most worthy of my care?'. The Prophet replied: 'Your mother'. The man asked: 'Then whom?'. He replied: 'Your mother'. The man further asked: 'Then whom?'. He replied: 'Your mother'. The man asked: 'Then whom?'. And in this fourth time the Prophet replied: 'Then your father.' This shows the status Allah has given to women. They are given the rights as a sister, a mother, a daughter, and a wife.

Quran about mother.

Allah says: {Your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him and that you be kind to parents. When one or both of them attains old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor repel them but address them in terms of honour.} (Surat Al-Isra' (17), ayah 23). A woman as a mother has equal status of a man as a husband.

Quran about daughter.

“A woman is also a daughter and sister and like their male brothers, are born of the same lineage and from the same womb: {He bestows female (offspring) upon whom He wills, and bestows male (offspring) upon whom Him wills.} (Surat Al-Shura (42), ayah 49).”

“The Prophet (SAAS) says: 'Women are the (equal) sisters of men.”

Quran about wife.

“A woman is also a wife who is a source of comfort for her husband as he is to her: {And among His signs is this, that He created wives from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts)} (Surat Al-Rum (30), ayah 21). Allah also said: {They are like a garment to you and you are like a garment to them} (Surat Al-Baqara (2), ayah 187)”.

Furthermore, Prophet Muhammad (saw) respected women beyond the words. He (saw) used to stand up on arrival of His (saw)’s daughter Fatima (RA) in her respect.

He (saw) would often say: “Fatima is of my flesh, he who angers her, angers me” (Bukhari & Muslim). That tells the respect women were given. Additionally, prophet Muhammad (saw) loved His wife Khadijah (RA) exceptionally. Even after the death of His wife, Messenger of Allah (saw) used to send gifts to her friends. Khadijah (RA) was a business woman and she did not stop working even after the marrying with Rasool Allah (saw). He even helped her in her business. That is self explanatory that Islam gives women even right to own a business and work. He (saw) said once, “She believed in me when no one else did.” He (saw) completely adore her and respected her.


Now for having better insight status of women in Islam, we should preview the status of women before the Islam.

Under the Roman Empire, women had no rights and were dictated by their men. It was a male dominated society. They were even legally allowed to kill their wives or daughters. They had no voting rights, no rights to become senators, lawyers, judges, governors, etc. Similarly, women had no rights to own property in Athenian dynasty. Additionally, under Aryan civilization, women were given their rights and their status was same as men. Unlikely, Athenian and Roman Empire, they even had rights to own property. But later on, during the Medieval era, women status got lowered and practice like Satti took place. (It is the practice of women dying with their husbands at the funeral pyre). Also, Jauhar started under this time period. Where wives were immolating themselves, if they got to know that their husbands were going to die from their enemies.

Later, Islam became the first official religion to give women their rights. Women and men are very often addressed in same passage in Quran.
Here's an example from the Quran,

"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women who are patient, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise - For them all has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." (33:35).

Moreover, Islam even gives women rights to own property, work, and financial securities.
Allah says in Quran,

"From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large, a determinate share." (Surah 4, Ayah 7).


Furthermore, women even fought the holy wars along with men. Nusayba b. Ka‘b al-Anṣārīyya who was also known as Umm ‘Ammara. She was a very prominent lady of the time. She participated in one of the most important holy war in Islam, Battle of Uhud.
Khawla b. al-Azwar, another woman who fought one of the important battle, Battle of Yarmuk It was against the Byzantines.This participation of women in wars explain their status. They were not oppressed rather given the equal status as men.
Oppression cannot make someone a writer, scholar, political figure, or anything. There are countless ladies of Islam, who hold on to these titles. Following are the few famous women of Islam; Lubna of Cordoba, she was a great poet and writer. Al-Malika al-Ḥurra Arwa al-Sulayhi, a queen of Yemen and ruled Yemen very well. Fāṭima b. Abī al-Qāsim ‘Abd al-Rahmān b. Muhammad b. Ghālib al-Ansārī al-Sharrāṭ, she was jurisprude and theorist.
Razia Sultan, she ruled the Sultanate of Delhi. And most importantly, Ayesha (RA). Wife of prophet Muhammad (SAW). She played a major role in Islam after the death of Prophet (saw). She also played a vital role in politics as well as Islamic teachings. Also, one of the major narrator of Hadith. That is just a glimpse of the role of women in history.


All these facts are self explanatory about the status of women in Islam. Islamic history is rich with great achievements of women and few I mentioned above. Mistreatment towards women is not justified in any cost. No one is allowed or even dare to cancel, take away, or even reduce the rights of women given by Prophet (saw) and Allah or in other words given in Islamic law. All in all, status of women near Allah is very honorable and noble as well as in in Islamic law.
Throughout history, the role of Muslims women played is totally admirable. Lastly, the purpose of this piece of writing is just to break the stereotypes of gender inequality in Islam.

@MaarKhoor @The Eagle @Neutron @Khafee @Zibago @Shamain @WAJsal @Akheilos @DesertFox97 @Tipu7 @Assailiant @jamahir @Syed.Ali.Haider @Imran Khan
@PaklovesTurkiye @Umair Nawaz @Desert Fox & Others.

Our ill informed peoples don't even know that Hazrat Aysha (R.A) was a teacher of Hadith and family affair and he teach that to all Muslims and even in one case Hazrat Umar asked some questions to resolve certain issues related to woman issues.
 
Our ill informed peoples don't even know that Hazrat Aysha (R.A) was a teacher of Hadith and family affair and he teach that to all Muslims and even in one case Hazrat Umar asked some questions to resolve certain issues related to woman issues.

Why? Because we don't teach kids in schools about it. As per my knowledge, Islamic studies has been taken out of the courses in Pakistan. I did heart about it, but not sure if it was implemented or not.
We don't teach our kids about Islam anymore.
 
Proper Noun------ i know your logic but please do me a favour sir, when ever you Write, Please, just use a Capital letter at The beginning, would be much obliged.....

i understand your troubled sentiment but you must allow me this... as you see, in all my posts i prefer using small letters and that is because i don't see the sense in english language having capital letters... though i don't know nastaliq urdu i don't see that script having a system of capital case and small case... capital case and small case are limited to some languages based on roman script and there too it is simply a cultural agreement to use capitalization for certain things... there is no hard and fast rule.

respect for someone or something is not obtained by writing words with capitalization but with what comes before and after that word... as you said you see my logic, so you do you not think i will be a hypocrite if i capitalize one thing but leave other words in small case?? :)

imagine if all capitalization is removed from english language grammar... wouldn't it be so easy?? :)
 
Last edited:
We people love to put blame of everything on others. Isn't it our fault that we don't study and search? Shouldn't we go to scholars with valid points and questions to understand it better?
Also, we should go to some humble and great scholar to seek knowledge. Another thing today we are too scared to talk about Islam, which gets on my nerves. You can't find the solution to any problem with not talking about it. You know.
Salman Taseer was 'talking about' Blasphemy laws, what happened to him?

Until Muslims, or Pakistani Muslims, don't develop the maturity and ability to tolerate criticism (even if it is abuse directed at the Prophet Muhammad) those who wish to openly and freely debate contentious interpretations of Islam will be shut down through violence and/or threats of violence. This is the unfortunate reality of Islam in Pakistan today.
 
I was trying really hard not to comment on this but I couldn't help myself.

How many female prophets in Abrahmic religions or God doesn't talk to women or 'he' doesn't deem them worthy enough to carry 'his' message?

How many female popes/patriarchs/imams?

In all of the world’s major religions, women are deemed to be inferior to men. Women are men’s belongings and women can have no authority over men. According to the Bible:

“Men are superior to women, Jesus is superior to men and God is above all. Women should worship all of them”. (Corinthians 14: 34, 35).

A woman counts as only half a man in legal and financial matters is specified with great precision in the Koran:

“And call into witness two men; or if two be not men, then one man and two women” (Koran, The Cow. Verse 282) and “ God charges you concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two female” (Koran, Women, verse 11).
 
I knew Indians couldn't keep their noses out of this thread too. :rofl:

Funny how the Indian above is butthurt yet it took British Empire to ban barbaric Hindu practising of burning widows along with their dead husband. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
 
I was trying really hard not to comment on this but I couldn't help myself.

How many female prophets in Abrahmic religions or God doesn't talk to women or 'he' doesn't deem them worthy enough to carry 'his' message?
The Quran doesn't list all the Prophets or Messengers sent by Allah - so theoretically the gender of at least some of those not named could be female.

Of the ones that are named, traditional Islamic scholars tend to claim that they are all male. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the grammatical rules governing the translation and interpretation of the ancient Arabic of the Quran to definitively state whether or not the Quran explicitly identifies the gender of the named prophets/messengers.
 
I was trying really hard not to comment on this but I couldn't help myself.

How many female prophets in Abrahmic religions or God doesn't talk to women or 'he' doesn't deem them worthy enough to carry 'his' message?

How many female popes/patriarchs/imams?

In all of the world’s major religions, women are deemed to be inferior to men. Women are men’s belongings and women can have no authority over men. According to the Bible:

“Men are superior to women, Jesus is superior to men and God is above all. Women should worship all of them”. (Corinthians 14: 34, 35).

A woman counts as only half a man in legal and financial matters is specified with great precision in the Koran:

“And call into witness two men; or if two be not men, then one man and two women” (Koran, The Cow. Verse 282) and “ God charges you concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two female” (Koran, Women, verse 11).

Being a Prophet isn't a privilege; it's a burden. Prophets have very little rights from the moment they are chosen. John the Baptist was split in half after being tied to two trees. Jonah was forced into the body of a sea monster after he refused to preach to the evil people of the Assyrian empire. Moses was a prince of Egypt before being chosen, after he was the leader of a rebellious group of ungrateful ex-slaves with next to nothing. Job was a wealthy man with a good life; after he was starving, his family were dead, and he himself was stricken with illness.

Muslims are told to pray 5 times a day, but the Prophet used to spend most of his nights in prayer, and when he died his only possessions were a water jug, one change of clothing, a sleeping mat, a comb, and slippers.

Why would anyone want to be a Prophet?

There have been Muslim women judges and religious leaders. Also leaders and generals.
 
Last edited:
In all of the world’s major religions, women are deemed to be inferior to men. Women are men’s belongings and women can have no authority over men. According to the Bible:

“Men are superior to women, Jesus is superior to men and God is above all. Women should worship all of them”. (Corinthians 14: 34, 35).

A woman counts as only half a man in legal and financial matters is specified with great precision in the Koran:

“And call into witness two men; or if two be not men, then one man and two women” (Koran, The Cow. Verse 282) and “ God charges you concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two female” (Koran, Women, verse 11).
Add to that Manusmruti also. Afterall, it is not alone Abrahamic religions who are against Women. By natural order, Women are suppressed for the sustaining of family as a unit. (Which may be too much for yo-yo youths in their teens and twenties to accept.). Manusmruti has some good words for Women. "Na Stree Swatantramarhati".

Not to mention the North Indian societies which even this day hails occurrence of women observing Sati. Thuggery and Sati are two things Britishers almost erased from India (Thankfully).
 
I was trying really hard not to comment on this but I couldn't help myself.

How many female prophets in Abrahmic religions or God doesn't talk to women or 'he' doesn't deem them worthy enough to carry 'his' message?

How many female popes/patriarchs/imams?

In all of the world’s major religions, women are deemed to be inferior to men. Women are men’s belongings and women can have no authority over men. According to the Bible:

“Men are superior to women, Jesus is superior to men and God is above all. Women should worship all of them”. (Corinthians 14: 34, 35).

A woman counts as only half a man in legal and financial matters is specified with great precision in the Koran:

“And call into witness two men; or if two be not men, then one man and two women” (Koran, The Cow. Verse 282) and “ God charges you concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two female” (Koran, Women, verse 11).

Sir, quoting from Quran when needed and rejecting it when it proves your point wrong is never an acceptable act. Further, before quoting these two verses, did you read the background or the reason for two women's witness is equal to one man. I am sure not. Anyways, here's an article please do read it and didn't your answer out. Why Two Women Witnesses? - SunnahOnline.com

Peace. :)

Salman Taseer was 'talking about' Blasphemy laws, what happened to him?

Until Muslims, or Pakistani Muslims, don't develop the maturity and ability to tolerate criticism (even if it is abuse directed at the Prophet Muhammad) those who wish to openly and freely debate contentious interpretations of Islam will be shut down through violence and/or threats of violence. This is the unfortunate reality of Islam in Pakistan today.

Again the solution ends up to "maturity" in people. How does it come? Eduction helps a lot. Awareness too.
 
Again the solution ends up to "maturity" in people. How does it come? Eduction helps a lot. Awareness too.
I don't agree that the solution is education. Children are being brainwashed into accepting intolerance and violence to protest 'blasphemy' from a very early age.

What is needed is for the government and society to openly reject constraints on speech and charge anyone explicitly or implicitly threatening violence under the guise of blasphemy under the anti-terrorism laws. It needs to be made clear to the next generation that violence in response to speech is unacceptable.
 
please tell me if you know some? i would love to listen to them, currently i am listening to Javed Ghamdi
discussions always help, i agree completely , but only if two sensible people do it
Here is a very good scholar which im sure @Ammara Chaudhry is familiar with, i like his lectures and short videos as they are very lax and straight to the point.

 
Back
Top Bottom