Beginning of Women Rights in Human Civilizations.

[aakash_2410]

I'm an Ahmadi Muslim and have lost two cousins fighting Taliban you f@@@@ scum bag, very easy for Indians like you to call all Muslims terrorists if they don't agree with your retarded views.



Sure ban Niqab in airports, banks etc and if its a security threat. I think Muslim women shouldn't wear it in Non Muslim countries. However you are no one to call for ban of Niqab.

Firstly that sort of language is uncalled for. I did not get emotional when you insulted me and ohh so many will say you're not even Muslim? Jay Shri Krishna then since you guys also believe Krishna was a prophet.

They didn't ban Sati at airports and banks. They just banned it and I'm not saying all this because I got butthurt that Sati got banned and Burqa didn't. In fact it was a tradition that deserved to be banned. By the way, full face veil is not mandatory in Islam by most modern scholars so today it represents female oppression and there's nothing religious about it hence, I'm calling for a ban. Don't get emotional when I counter your baseless arguments with rationale and logic.

 

[jamahir]

Shut up mate! Aren't you the same Islamic State sympathiser that me and Steve made fun of? Still burning over it?

i am surprised.

i doubt it was @Jaanbaz, though i disagree with his opposition to bashar al-assad ( now i must ask - was it him really the opposer?? ).

maybe you are talking of luffy 500 or falcon29.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Firstly that sort of language is uncalled for. I did not get emotional when you insulted me and ohh so many will say you're not even Muslim? Jay Shri Krishna then since you guys also believe Krishna was a prophet.

They didn't ban Sati at airports and banks. They just banned it and I'm not saying all this because I got butthurt that Sati got banned and Burqa didn't. In fact it was a tradition that deserved to be banned. By the way, full face veil is not mandatory in Islam by most modern scholars so today it represents female oppression and there's nothing religious about it hence, I'm calling for a ban. Don't get emotional when I counter your baseless arguments with rationale and logic.

Call me terrorist again and that's what you will get.

As for Niqab being banned or not, its doesn't matter to me, I'm not a woman, I won't force anyone to wear it or force anyone to take it off. Is it too hard to understand? Sati on the other hand got banned because it directly harmed the people involved in it. Niqab too can be harmful if it is being forced.

i doubt it was @Jaanbaz, though i disagree with his opposition to bashar al-assad ( now i must ask - was it him really the opposer?? ).

There was some old thread about Britain towing the line of USA, I joked around a little, he and Steve fella got offended. without even knowing both of them called me Islamist and now he is calling me Islamic State sympathiser. This kid has probably never lost anyone to terrorists, that's why it easy for him dish out labels, he probably wants to feel accepted by his White bosses.

though i disagree with his opposition to bashar al-assad

Bashar Al assad should have resigned early on, he should have transferred power to transition government and held elections. Assad is a power hungry murderer who barrel bombs his own civilians.

 

[jamahir]

Bashar Al assad should have resigned early on, he should have transferred power to transition government and held elections. Assad is a power hungry murderer who barrel bombs his own civilians.

i regret thanking your post.

anyway - allah, souriya, bashar wa bas.

 

[aakash_2410]

Call me terrorist again and that's what you will get.

As for Niqab being banned or not, its doesn't matter to me, I'm not a woman, I won't force anyone to wear it or force anyone to take it off. Is it too hard to understand? Sati on the other hand got banned because it directly harmed the people involved in it. Niqab too can be harmful if it is being forced.



There was some old thread about Britain towing the line of USA, I joked around a little, he and Steve fella got offended. without even knowing both of them called me Islamist and now he is calling me Islamic State sympathiser. This kid has probably never lost anyone to terrorists, that's why it easy for him dish out labels, he probably wants to feel accepted by his White bosses.



Bashar Al assad should have resigned early on, he should have transferred power to transition government and held elections. Assad is a power hungry murderer who barrel bombs his own civilians.

Firstly I never called you a terrorist. I called you a terrorist sympathiser from the way you acted on the thread that you just mentioned. Also, you started name calling me and insulting when I just gave my 2 cents about women's right in ALL religions and not just Islam.

I dunno why you're keep going on about this Sati thing. I agree with you on that? Also, I do not need to lose anyone to know that innocent lives being lost for no apparent reason is a bad thing.

Assad part got you a thank even though we do not see eye to eye on the said topic obviously.

@jamahir right now he's acting rather differently than what he did before few months. But, anyways I dunno where you stand but I think Assad has to go. It may not be ideal for him to resign right now because of the power vacuum it will create but, eventually he has to go.

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir right now he's acting rather differently than what he did before few months.

i have never seen jaanbaz support isis... perhaps you should post his posts that you think do that.

But, anyways I dunno where you stand but I think Assad has to go. It may not be ideal for him to resign right now because of the power vacuum it will create but, eventually he has to go

whether or not he stays or goes is left to the syrian people defending their socialist system from the nato regime-change program, but at the moment he is the best man for the leader's role and the syrian people have declared this time and again... if anything, after the war is over and nato's dogs have been eliminated, the syrian system must turn more socialist and adopt the "third universal theory" from libya, and this will leave power truly in the hands of the people - true democracy, with bashar al-assad being a vanguard of the new revolution.

all nato leaders are designated war-criminals and genociders, starting with nobel "peace" prize winner, obomba.

and like before i declare the chant of the syrian people ( who got inspired by the libyans ) - allah, souriya, bashar wa bas... perhaps you know the meaning.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Islamiat is still there but certain syllabus related to intrepretation of Hadith and Quranic verses wa taken out under the pretext that in matric students are too young to understand such matters. Rumour has it that it was done under the pressure from UN?British. Dont know if its true or not.

It was probably taken out under pressure from the Mullahs/Scholars - in a proper academic setting that encourages critical thinking and analysis, students need to be given complete freedom to analyze and review current interpretations and offer alternate views.

This kind of critical thinking and analysis with respect to the translation and interpretation of the Quran and Hadith is precisely what the Mullahs/Scholars want to avoid because then they'll be subjected to thought provoking questions and criticism from students that they simply cannot defend.

In any case, such critical analysis and review of traditional interpretations of the Quran and Hadith can simply not occur in Pakistan as long as the Blasphemy laws are in place.

@aakash_2410 @jamahir @Jaanbaz

I think too often we fall into the trap of 'with us or against us' when analyzing complex geo-political events. This is a tendency of a lot of Western analysts (and when it comes to Pakistan, in my view, a tendency on the part of a lot of Indian analysts as well) - to analyze everything as black and white.

Opposition to Assad does not automatically imply support for ISIS or Al Nusra - many who oppose Assad do so because they perceive him as a dictator and his military tactics to retain power as brutal and ignorant of the civilian casualties they cause. People in this group absolutely do not want to see ISIS, AL Qaeda, Al Nusra or any of the other Islamist extremist groups taking power from Assad, but they do want to see Assad leave and a representative democratic government take control - arguably this ideal solution may not be feasible any more, given the strength of groups like Al Nusra and ISIS (compared to the FSA), at least in the short to medium term, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[jamahir]

It was probably taken out under pressure from the Mullahs/Scholars - in a proper academic setting that encourages critical thinking and analysis, students need to be given complete freedom to analyze and review current interpretations and offer alternate views.

This kind of critical thinking and analysis with respect to the translation and interpretation of the Quran and Hadith is precisely what the Mullahs/Scholars want to avoid because then they'll be subjected to thought provoking questions and criticism from students that they simply cannot defend.

In any case, such critical analysis and review of traditional interpretations of the Quran and Hadith can simply not occur in Pakistan as long as the Blasphemy laws are in place.

yes indeed on all points.

perhaps you know my recent thread 'the comfortable muslims of yesteryears and pious muslims of now' in the 'world affairs section'... it is actually a article by nadeem paracha and a world-tour of progressive intellectualism by muslim socialists in modern history and gives glimpse of that recent past to declare screamingly of the intellectualism that is generally absent among muslims at present.

@aakash_2410 @jamahir @Jaanbaz

I think too often we fall into the trap of 'with us or against us' when analyzing complex geo-political events. This is a tendency of a lot of Western analysts (and when it comes to Pakistan, in my view, a tendency on the part of a lot of Indian analysts as well) - to analyze everything as black and white.

Opposition to Assad does not automatically imply support for ISIS or Al Nusra - many who oppose Assad do so because they perceive him as a dictator and his military tactics to retain power as brutal and ignorant of the civilian casualties they cause. People in this group absolutely do not want to see ISIS, AL Qaeda, Al Nusra or any of the other Islamist extremist groups taking power from Assad, but they do want to see Assad leave and a representative democratic government take control - arguably this ideal solution may not be feasible any more, given the strength of groups like Al Nusra and ISIS (compared to the FSA), at least in the short to medium term, but that's a discussion for another thread.

true for the underlined.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

It was probably taken out under pressure from the Mullahs/Scholars - in a proper academic setting that encourages critical thinking and analysis, students need to be given complete freedom to analyze and review current interpretations and offer alternate views.

This kind of critical thinking and analysis with respect to the translation and interpretation of the Quran and Hadith is precisely what the Mullahs/Scholars want to avoid because then they'll be subjected to thought provoking questions and criticism from students that they simply cannot defend.

In any case, such critical analysis and review of traditional interpretations of the Quran and Hadith can simply not occur in Pakistan as long as the Blasphemy laws are in place.

Not Likely.
I did my o Levels in 2012. I gave my Islamiat in 2011. During those times it began to circulate that Interpretation was going to be removed from Cambridge Syllabus. Many Of The recognized teachers were repeatedly invited to Britain including our teacher and She confirmed that they are going to be removed. Unless Pakistani "MULLAHS" can Influence Cambridge , its not possible and if they can then we have more to worry about.

FBISE just followed Cambridge that is, if they removed it. (Not Exactly sure if they went through with it. The talks began last year).

 

[prashantazazel]

do I see a moderate interpretation? Let's see if it finds traction. The liberals are a minority, and the extremists are well armed.

 

[I.R.A]

A woman counts as only half a man in legal and financial matters is specified with great precision in the Koran:

“And call into witness two men; or if two be not men, then one man and two women”

The complete verse also includes words like "If one of them forgets the other may remind her" OR

"so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her" OR

" so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember"

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

In my opinion it had nothing to prove that women are looked down as witnesses in comparison to male counterparts otherwise that would have been stated straight forward.

 

[shah_123]

Unfortunately, we don't study it on our own and completely rely on scholars. We need to study and understand it before buying it from them and start criticizing or appreciating.

That's a good thing to study on our own but at the end of the day, we will still be relying on Scholars because the material we would read is written by some Scholar --- The unfortunate thing is, our people have all the time in the world to go uni's/colleges etc., but have no time to read even a single book on Islam -- ad these are the people with most criticism, Mullah is this, Mullah is that ----- ok fine, Mullah is the bad guy, so please ; why don't you yourself become a qualified Scholar and give us the correct interpretation of Islam ?

Yes, and the moment you question a prevalent interpretation promoted by a majority of 'scholars', you'll be accused of Blasphemy - case in point being Salman Taseer.

The Mullahs/Scholars have built a very clever and devious system to protect their perverted and regressive views.

Like it or not, it's the Mullah who has the authority to interpret Quran/Hadith, Islamic laws --- When you need a medical advice, you go to a qualified doctor and not a cobbler -- No matter what i say or you say, at the end, it's the Mullah qualified from a madrassah whose views will hold because he is the one who has got the degree.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Like it or not, it's the Mullah who has the authority to interpret Quran/Hadith, Islamic laws --- When you need a medical advice, you go to a qualified doctor and not a cobbler -- No matter what i say or you say, at the end, it's the Mullah qualified from a madrassah whose views will hold because he is the one who has got the degree.

At one point in time 'medical doctors' would treat certain diseases by putting leaches on the human body or feeding people horse piss, and the scientific community ostracized those who tried to argue against the 'world being flat'. The scientific community engaged in (and continues to engage in) researching, analyzing and reviewing our known understanding of the human body and how to treat various illnesses or symptoms and has moved light years forward from those dark ages.

The Mullahs/Scholars on the other hand completely shut down all avenues of critical thinking, review and questioning of their traditional interpretations. Today's Mullahs are the equivalent of the 'medical doctors' from the medieval ages who would prefer to feed patients horse piss instead of allowing their methods and interpretations to be challenged.

So no, the Mullah does not, should not and will not have sole authority to interpret the Quran and Hadith - God gave us all minds for a reason, to use them, and not to blindly follow perverted Mullahs/Scholars who want to legalize pedophilia/child rape and further institutionalize inequality, prejudice and discrimination against those whose beliefs do not fit in with the regressive Mullah interpretations of Islam.

 

[shah_123]

At one point in time 'medical doctors' would treat certain diseases by putting leaches on the human body or feeding people horse piss, and the scientific community ostracized those who tried to argue against the 'world being flat'. The scientific community engaged in (and continues to engage in) researching, analyzing and reviewing our known understanding of the human body and how to treat various illnesses or symptoms and has moved light years forward from those dark ages.

The Mullahs/Scholars on the other hand completely shut down all avenues of critical thinking, review and questioning of their traditional interpretations. Today's Mullahs are the equivalent of the 'medical doctors' from the medieval ages who would prefer to feed patients horse piss instead of allowing their methods and interpretations to be challenged.

So no, the Mullah does not, should not and will not have sole authority to interpret the Quran and Hadith - God gave us all minds for a reason, to use them, and not to blindly follow perverted Mullahs/Scholars who want to legalize pedophilia/child rape and further institutionalize inequality, prejudice and discrimination against those whose beliefs do not fit in with the regressive Mullah interpretations of Islam.

Than please come forward and go through 16+ years of studies, become an Islamic Scholar and give us the correct/modern view of Islam ----- and lets act a bit mature and keep aside all this childish rants of legalizing child rape etc., -- You can have discussion in a proper way!

and till you and others become Islamic Scholars according to the understanding you have, Mullahs will be authority!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Than please come forward and go through 16+ years of studies, become an Islamic Scholar and give us the correct/modern view of Islam ----- and lets act a bit mature and keep aside all this childish rants of legalizing child rape etc., -- You can have discussion in a proper way!

and till you and others become Islamic Scholars according to the understanding you have, Mullahs will be authority!

Childish rants? You do realize that the 'Islamic Scholars' on the 'Council of Islamic Ideology' have argued that girls as young as 9 can be married? And Mullahs/Scholars across Pakistan and the Islamic world have taken the same perverted position.

Arguing that it is perfectly fine for a 9 year old child to get married is nothing other than advocating in favor of child rape and pedophilia.