Battle of Marathon 490 BCE

[BeyondHeretic]

^^Anyhow I think the kushanis were the people who belonged to the hindu-kush mountain range , hindu-kush itself is another word for indo-Scythian .....

In the poetry of ferdowsi for example , Ashkboos , who is a Parthian prince , and a personification of scythians in general is called a "Koshani"

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Headless statue of Kushan Emperor Kanishka excavated in Mathura.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

Maybe. In our history books we are taught Sakas were a race of people who invaded us from Central Asia or Iran. They converted to Buddhism and assimilated into our culture.

cool , your history books are certainly worth more than us , though I read somewhere Buddha himself was a saka and that his peaceful manners was at sharp contrast with Scythian way of life , they could be wrong though...


Interesting link about scythians:

Top 10 Interesting Facts about the*Scythians - Listverse

 

[ExtraOdinary]

cool , your history books are certainly worth more than us , though I read somewhere Buddha himself was a saka and that his peaceful manners was at sharp contrast with Scythian way of life , they could be wrong though...


Interesting link about scythians:

Top 10 Interesting Facts about the*Scythians - Listverse

for the link.

Buddha was born in Nepal (much much before the sakas came to India) in around 500 BC.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

Here's wiki on the battle of marathon:

First Persian invasion of Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Size of the Persian force [edit]

According to Herodotus, the fleet sent by Darius consisted of 600 triremes.[46] There is no indication in the historical sources of how many transport ships accompanied them, if any. Herodotus claimed that 3,000 transport ships accompanied 1,207 triremes during Xerxes's invasion in 480 BCE.[47] Amongst modern historians, some have accepted this number of ships as reasonable; it has been suggested either that the number 600 represents the combined number of triremes and transport ships,[48][49] or that there were horse transports in addition to 600 triremes.[50]

Herodotus does not estimate the size of the Persian army, only saying that they formed a "large infantry that was well packed".[51] Among other ancient sources, the poet Simonides, a near-contemporary, says the campaign force numbered 200,000, while a later writer, the Roman Cornelius Nepos estimates 200,000 infantry and 10,000 cavalry.[52] Plutarch and Pausanias both independently give 300,000, as does the Suda dictionary;[53][54][55] Plato and Lysias assert 500,000; and Justin 600,000.[56][57][58]

Modern historians generally dismiss these numbers as exaggerations.[50] One approach to estimate the number of troops is to calculate the number of marines carried by 600 triremes. Herodotus tells us that each trireme in the second invasion of Greece carried 30 extra marines, in addition to a probable 14 standard marines.[59] Thus, 600 triremes could easily have carried 18,000–26,000 infantry.[50][60] Numbers proposed for the Persian infantry are in the range 18,000–100,000.[48][49][61][62][63] However, the consensus is around 25,000.[50][62]

The Persian infantry used in the invasion was probably a heterogeneous group drawn from across the empire. However, according to Herodotus, there was at least a general conformity in the type of armour and style of fighting.[64] The troops were, generally speaking, armed with a bow, 'short spear' and sword, carried a wicker shield, and wore at most a leather jerkin.[64][65] The one exception to this may have been the ethnic Persian troops, who may have worn a corslet of scaled armour.[64] Some of contingents would have been armed somewhat differently;[64] for instance, the Saka were renowned axemen.[66] The 'elite' contingents of the Persian infantry seem to have been the ethnic Persians, Medians, Cissians and the Saka;[64] Herodotus specifically mentions the presence of Persians and Saka at Marathon.[67] The style of fighting used by the Persians was probably to stand off from an enemy, using their bows (or equivalent) to wear down the enemy before closing in to deliver the coup de grace with spear and sword.[64]

Estimates for the cavalry are usually in the 1,000–3,000 range.[50][68] The Persian cavalry was usually provided by the ethnic Persians, Bactrians, Medes, Cissians and Saka; most of these probably fought as lightly armed missile cavalry.[64][69] The fleet must have had at least some proportion of transport ships, since the cavalry was carried by ship; whilst Herodotus claims the cavalry was carried in the triremes, this is improbable. Lazenby estimates 30–40 transport ships would be required to carry 1,000 cavalry.[50]

for the link.

Buddha was born in Nepal much much before the sakas came to India in around 500 BC.

you're probably right , that article was by someone who was in love with the scythians , Buddha's ethnicity though is through much debate

 

[Joe Shearer]

Though if scythians killed cyrus indeed , one could easily wonder it was indo-scythians , who were already established there , that made alexander retreat form india , not a Sikh like portrayed in the movie alexander

That conclusion is several centuries premature. The Indo-Scythians came onto the scene after the Bactrian Greeks had held the region for some decades, after Alexander, after Seleucus; they (the Bactrian Greeks) crumbled before the Scythian onslaught. The Scythians themselves were forced to march against the Bactrian Greeks due to their own defeat at the hands of the Tocharians. And the Tocharians were fleeing from their merciless foes, the Hiong Nu.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Scythians were Kushans who came to rule over India later. They were excellent horsemen and their most famous king was Kanishka the great.

Two different tribes, different languages.

Scythians most probably spoke a dialect of east Iranian. The Kushans were miscalled so, from their ruling clan, the Yueh Chi, the Moon Clan; they were actually the people speaking Tocharian. While Iranian was/is a Satam language, Tocharian was a Centum language.

Nobody has a good explanation for why the Tocharians got where they did (the Tarim Basin).

 

[BeyondHeretic]

That conclusion is several centuries premature. The Indo-Scythians came onto the scene after the Bactrian Greeks had held the region for some decades, after Alexander, after Seleucus; they (the Bactrian Greeks) crumbled before the Scythian onslaught. The Scythians themselves were forced to march against the Bactrian Greeks due to their own defeat at the hands of the Tocharians. And the Tocharians were fleeing from their merciless foes, the Hiong Nu.

Of course i'm not an expert , it was my speculation that indo-scythians made alexander retreat ...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes , and thank you , I think the saka formed the bulk of cavalry back then , but like I suggested I think there's a close kinship between the saka and Persians , Persians were descendants of sakas who migrated into the Iranian plateau during the so called Iranian heroic age.



pardon me , but I think the kushanis only formed part of the scythians , they were indo-scythians , the saka for example had their roots in current central asia so one could say they were not indo scythians.

GROAN! Why is it that you do not wish to look up the sources?

 

[BeyondHeretic]

GROAN! Why is it that you do not wish to look up the sources?

What does groan mean? it is of course my own very theory that the sakas of central asia were the Aryans who descended into the Iranian plateau well before the achamenid era , that is why I belive there's a close kinship between Persians and the saka .

Though i'm always more than fascinated to hear from an expert on this chapter of history

 

[Joe Shearer]

for the link.

Buddha was born in Nepal much much before the sakas came to India in around 500 BC.

Where did you get this piece of information about the Sakas coming to India around 500 BC? It will take a long post to narrate the Scythian relationship with 'India'. Suffice it to say that this is too early if we define the Sakas as the people of Bessus, of Oxyartes the father of Roxana; too late if we identify the Sakas with the Parama Kamboja, the extreme Kambojas, whose prince and his warriors fought in the Kurukshetra battle.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Two different tribes, different languages.

Scythians most probably spoke a dialect of east Iranian. The Kushans were miscalled so, from their ruling clan, the Yueh Chi, the Moon Clan; they were actually the people speaking Tocharian. While Iranian was/is a Satam language, Tocharian was a Centum language.

Nobody has a good explanation for why the Tocharians got where they did (the Tarim Basin).

Thanks for correction.

Chandragupta II had a war with a tribe called Sakas in 6th century AD. After he defeated their confederacy of Malwa, Saurashtra and Gujarat , he took the title "Sakari" meaning "Destroyer of the Sakas" and commisioned the Iron Pillar. From what I read these Sakas were Central Asians so I always thought they descended from Kushans.

Where did you get this piece of information about the Sakas coming to India around 500 BC? It will take a long post to narrate the Scythian relationship with 'India'. Suffice it to say that this is too early if we define the Sakas as the people of Bessus, of Oxyartes the father of Roxana; too late if we identify the Sakas with the Parama Kamboja, the extreme Kambojas, whose prince and his warriors fought in the Kurukshetra battle.

I meant to say Buddha was born around 500 BC. Pardon me for wrong usage of english.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course i'm not an expert , it was my speculation that indo-scythians made alexander retreat ...

These stories play havoc with my blood pressure.

You may remember that after Gaugamela, which was fought hard by the Saka cavalry (reported by Greeks as the Sogdians), Darius III fled to Ecbatana (Hamadan) and spent the winter there. The next year, he tried to retreat to Sogdiana to regroup, but his Satrap of Bactria, Bessus, killed him. Bessus was the seniormost survivor of the Achaemenid family and proclaimed himself Artaxerxes V, but nobody really paid any attention. When the Greeks caught up with Bessus after a punishing and relentless pursuit, he was brought before Alexander and executed. Alexander then proceeded to Bactria and subdued that province, and Sogdiana next to it, and married Roxana, the daughter of their nobleman, Oxyartes.

Alexander made a looping expedition out of Bactria into the Ferghana area, the heart of Scythia, and came back into the Kabul area.

The Saka were far from defeating him; he was then at the peak of his power, and seemingly irresistible.

The Indo-Scythians is what historians call the invading Sakas and Saka-Pahlavas who came into Afghanistan and western India long after Alexander, after the Bactrian Greeks as well, whom they most probably overthrew, in order to penetrate their defences and reach more secure territories to the south. It was after the Indo-Scythians that the former province of Arachosia was renamed Sakasthan, which you now call Seistan.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sakas and kushans are different.Sakas are often called indo scythians.They destroyed the bactrian greek kingdom[leftover of alexander's greeks] and established their domination of western india/afganisthan.
Most converted to hinduism and buddhism,greatest saka ruler was rudradamana mahakshatrap.[see kshatrap word comes from persian satrap].At this time sakas were often nominally under the parthian emperors.Under the powerful saka satraps like rudradamana and nahapana they became independent.The loss of revenue gained from taxing the indo roman trade from the western ports was a major factor in the decline of the economic power of the parthians.
Saka power crumbled due to invasion of tocharians,then yue chi a sub clan of which were kushans.The remaining remained under overlordship of kushana kings.Parthian power by this time was on verge of collapse.
Kushans ruled over bulk of north india and central asia at their peak were eventually destroyed by internal conflict,decline of trade revenue[as the new monsoon trade route was discovered and indo romantrade shifted from north indian ports to south indian ports not under kushan control]and the assault of the new persian sassanid dynasty.
The deathblow to saka power came from the gupta empire of eastern india under chandragupta 2 who is called sakari.[enemy of sakas].
The guptas fell eventually after internal dissent and hepthalite[white huns invasion].The sassanid also suffered heavy losses to the hepthalites with many emperors being killed in battle.Eventually both guptas and sassanids rallied and defeated the hepthalites,but for guptas damage had been done..empire broke up shortly after.The sassanids though recovered,but after exhausting hundreds of years conflict against the byzantines in the west and hepthalites in the east they were destroyed by the rising muslim arabs.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

History is so fkin interesting. Too bad I became an engineer