Bangladesh urges Pakistan apology for 1971 ‘crimes’

[Straight]

Where is a link to this article or blog or where ever it is copied and posted here?
For the last part, i'll say if Bangladeshis don't wanna leave the past and move on, i'll say to hell with them, we don't give a damn about it. and for our country being the most dangerous place in the world, certainly you have fallen for the western and Indian propaganda which doesn't surprise any Pakistani and on a side note we can take care of our own problems, we don't need your support and neither your sympathy. Worry about yours instead.

Exactly this arrogant attitude of 'Islam-in-mouth' and not-in-practice---as you showed in your post---led Bangldeshis to realize how much Islam is underlying in Pakistan dream. The rest were unavoidable.

 

[Straight]

It always amuses me the lengths people will go to in order to perpetuate myths of one way genocide in East Pakistan.

The facts are

1) Biharis killed by Bengalis before any Army action
2) Mujib openly declaring war on the state of Pakistan before any Army action
3) Two sided atrocities
4) A completely bogus figure of 3 million disproved by neutral sources and just using logic, even Mujib needed to add another 2 million to his initial estimate

I'd add, I disagree there was even economic discrimination or language discrimination. East Pakistan always had more schools than West Pakistan and better educational facilities. Bengali was made the official language of Pakistan before any Army action too. You can't ask for anything more.

I'd be very happy if Balochistan, Sindh, or NWFP had more schools per square area than Punjab. Perhaps those three province were really discriminated against. East Pakistan appeared to be given it all education wise, it would seem.

Very wrong to say so.

1. Biharis were the last persons to think that Pakistan may disintegrate as they left everything in India, and no other place to go. So they made excesses thinking that Pak Army will protect them. In pre-25th days, there were sporadic small scale clashes between Bengalis and Beharis. Does Pakistani Islam allows Pak Army to slaughter 1000s of Bengalis elsewhere for these incidences in Mirpur and Syedpur ? If so, Bangladesh rightly decided to reject such fabricated Islam. Yet after 1971, surviving Beharis were denied by Pakistan but Bangladeshis accomodated them in their society despite own poverty.

2. Mujib did not. Even if he would, he was right. He was elected to become PM of whole Pakistan, and Pak leaders and army declined to accept that. How long should you live with serpents who break promises one after another?

3. How your Islam allow you to think that atrocities by Pak Army--trained and equipped to the teeth---and supported by full Govt. machinery and that by Bangladeshi youths scantily trained & equipped with light arms are same and similar in nature ? Which side caused the other side to be involved ? If you are really a Muslim, be justful. No need to lengthen the argument if your Islam is different.

4. Any idea on the correct figure ? If almost each family has one casualty, can the number be ignored ? Even if it is lesser (which is not) does Islam pardon the crime ? Ask your Islam.

If Pakistan abides by Islam, Pakistanis will realize their crime, and act in fear of Allah. If Pakistanis do not care for Islam, Bangladeshis should not expect any redress from them. Let Allah decide their fate & destiny.

We wish every one well. But if 'haqqul ibad' is violated, and not redressed, you will pay in your own blood on your own soil by worse people than Bangladeshis, and even by your own kith & kin.

Please ask your 'ulemas' and then come back.

About disparity, do you have respective figures in Pak Armed Forces, Central Govt., Foreign Scholarship, Location of Capitals ? Follow Islam while citing facts because we all are being supervised.

 

[Straight]

True words from a great man....thats all what i can say bout straight sir.......btw,regarding india......we indians were shown by the consequences, what a gujrat riot can do to our country,how it can destabilize us,loot our unity.....i am proud to say,we learned our lesson from that,we voted a secular party back to power this year......we regard all in india as indians,not as hindus or muslims.......and the only way to hold this unity,is a secular identity.....not a 'i am hindu' or 'i am muslim' attitude....but a 'i am indian' one......religious extrimism be it hindutva or islamic leads to destability........which was the case of bd......coz the islamic bengali culture is an unique and a very beautifull one,which is best to be left alone and let flourish.....not try to impose something upon...

No, Jako. In case of Bangladesh, the Islamic fabric is a must because of (1) Overwhelming Islamic majority (2) That too was ignited further because we fought a truly bloody war with Pakistan who too claims Islamic. Common Bangladeshis tend to think our fight was truly Islamic against 'tyranny-under-the-name of Islam'. That made the fabric stronger.

What we should be careful that we should become & remain TRULY ISLAMIC which allows others to lead their choice of religion or secularism.

You will not find any hindu-muslim strife here as in Gujrat or any shia-sunni strife or behari-banglai riot as you see in Pakistan. We need to maintain that Islamic beauty in our muslim society.

As for India, you need to maintain 'Indian' and secular identity because India is truly a historic meeting place of numerous religions. To sustain India's spectacular climb, you can not now afford any disparity that may hinder your speed of progress.

 

[Jako]

Straight sir,i know bd is a islam majority country......i never meant bd should give up its islamic identity,i only meant extremism with any religion leads to destability,which was evident in the language revolt...........i as a human believe,religion is a person's own path to peace,we must not confuse it with that of a state,but the goods of a relegion may be taken to make the moral way of living of the state....,...i may sometimes sound harsh,as ,we in india have a feeling that a religious state(like a islamic one),oppresses other minority religions,which is furthur strengthened by comments by your fellow countrymen,and religious extrimism examples of india itself.......

 

[Al-zakir]

Straight Sir
I understand your anger and frustration but
Is it possible in this point of time that we forgive and forget (in the light of Islam) the past for sake of our own existence from Indian hegemonic design. I mean you must admit that our unfortunate geographical location is our biggest enemy. Do you think that pak_bangla can work together for betterment of our people as we belong to Ummah. We could forgive them for any wrong doing and prove our self to be better Muslim as it comes from teaching of prophet Muhammed(S.W.A).

 

[Straight]

Straight sir,i know bd is a islam majority country......i never meant bd should give up its islamic identity,i only meant extremism with any religion leads to destability,which was evident in the language revolt...........i as a human believe,religion is a person's own path to peace,we must not confuse it with that of a state,but the goods of a relegion may be taken to make the moral way of living of the state....,...i may sometimes sound harsh,as ,we in india have a feeling that a religious state(like a islamic one),oppresses other minority religions,which is furthur strengthened by comments by your fellow countrymen,and religious extrimism examples of india itself.......

Ah! I got your point. The confusion always stem from the concept of 'Islamic State' which is a recently fabricated term introduced by politicians to use Islam for their own interest in politics.

If Islam is not in practice by majority, but majority is Muslim then it is a state run by Muslims---where you will find many wrong doings, too---but the state is not Islamic at all.

 

[Straight]

Straight Sir
I understand your anger and frustration but
Is it possible in this point of time that we forgive and forget (in the light of Islam) the past for sake of our own existence from Indian hegemonic design. I mean you must admit that our unfortunate geographical location is our biggest enemy. Do you think that pak_bangla can work together for betterment of our people as we belong to Ummah. We could forgive them for any wrong doing and prove our self to be better Muslim as it comes from teaching of prophet Muhammed(S.W.A).

Your point and approach, Al-Zakir, are so honest and pure, neither me nor any muslim can say "NO". This has to be replied with a big "YES".

However, if you really mean to devise a practical way to achieve the goal, we require to define it with cooler head. You know that Bangladesh people will not agree in foreseeable future to re-unite under 'Pakistan'---loosing the hard-earned Bangladeshi identity.

The only option open is to form an Union of Bangladesh and Pakistan.

There are 2 philosophies to advance such an idea of Union:

1. Because we are ummah (a pure Islamic cause)
2. Because India is a threat to both of us (a political cause)

Perhaps, you can not use #2 philosophy now because:

1. Indians and GoI are no longer threat to Islam. Indians are not anti-Bangladeshi either. Whatever problems now we are facing from India in Dams, Trades, at borders are due to over-patriotic and too selfish GoI bureaucrats, and unruly BSFs. All SAARC neighbours dislike India on this count.

Anytime if GoI changes to a better attitude to pre-empt Pak-Bangla Union intiative, this political philosophy is sure to lose momentum in changed circumstances.

2. Any political philosophy will meet with lots of suspicion from common Bangladeshis. Pakistan yet has not shown any substantial remorse or any renewed but vigorous friendliness that had bought any numbers of hearts in Bangladesh.

In other words, politically such an idea will not gain ground.

Only ground available is the Islamic ground where 'forgive & forget' for the cause of ummah is saleable.

But a question will pervade: If talking about ummah, why are you forgetting a vast piece of ummah in India ? Are you then using an Islamic sentiment for political benefit ?

That will put you back to Square 1 again. Displeasure of the-then-East Pakistanis under Pakistani rule has alerted Indian Muslims to such a degree that most of them feel GoI is a better Govt. to live under.

Therefore, there appear to be 2 formats for any union involving Pak & Bangla:

1. Union of Pak and Bangla : Ummah-based
2. A greater Union of India, Pak & Bangla: Economy-driven political initiative but benefit of ummah is embedded

We must consider above points further to devise a practical concept that will give result.

I need to know your and others' views on above so that I might contribute BEFORE I confuse.

 

[Al-zakir]

Let me have the honor to re welcome you to the forum as you have not been active for a little while and I appreciate your great posts.

Your point and approach, Al-Zakir, are so honest and pure, neither me nor any muslim can say "NO". This has to be replied with a big "YES".

However, if you really mean to devise a practical way to achieve the goal, we require to define it with cooler head. You know that Bangladesh people will not agree in foreseeable future to re-unite under 'Pakistan'---loosing the hard-earned Bangladeshi identity.

I am not advocating pak-bangla as one nation rather two different nation with same foreign policy, joint military and economic structure. I think it will reestablish Islamic dominance in south Asia once again.

There are 2 philosophies to advance such an idea of Union:

1. Because we are ummah (a pure Islamic cause)
2. Because India is a threat to both of us (a political cause)

A common interest that will benefit both wings of Islamic nations. As you and me both believer of Ummah thus some one has take the initiative to show the rest so why not the first to show the way of Rasul Allah.

Only ground available is the Islamic ground where 'forgive & forget' for the cause of ummah is saleable.

It's only way we can move forward as other option aren't available at this moment. 71 has been looked upon two different distinct dimension form two wings and also wrong was done from both sides more or less thus why hold back.

But a question will pervade: If talking about ummah, why are you forgetting a vast piece of ummah in India ? Are you then using an Islamic sentiment for political benefit ?

That will put you back to Square 1 again. Displeasure of the-then-East Pakistanis under Pakistani rule has alerted Indian Muslims to such a degree that most of them feel GoI is a better Govt. to live under.

Therefore, there appear to be 2 formats for any union involving Pak & Bangla:

1. Union of Pak and Bangla : Ummah-based
2. A greater Union of India, Pak & Bangla: Economy-driven political initiative but benefit of ummah is embedded

We must consider above points further to devise a practical concept that will give result.

I need to know your and others' views on above so that I might contribute BEFORE I confuse.

As a Muslim and hard core believer of Ummah my greatest desire is to see all Muslim live in prosperity. Our Muslim brother in India are suppress yet they are coping to live in that land because there aren't much option available to them. They have no voice but tolerate discrimination and you are well aware the status of Muslim in India compare to pak or bangla. Pakistan alone will not able to change the mindset of Indian administration or influence them to respect rest of SA nations however combine strength of pak-banlga can change the dynamics of South Asia thus economic betterment of Islamic people of south Asia will be uplifted to maximum including our brother in India. Reformation of greater Islamic empire also foreseeable as we will set up a example to Muslim dominant region who may wish to join us. We will also set up a good example to rest of Islamic world that united Islamic Ummah still alive and vibrant.

Brother lets face it we need each other to survive with dignity in this cruel world. As there is famous Urdu saying.....LAATON KE BHOOT BAATON SE NAHIN MAANTEY....

 

[Patriot]

Mrushid should be banned..he is a troll.

 

[All-Green]

ok ,
what you have to offer us in return.
or you wish pakistan to just feed your poor population .

No country in this subcontinent has as of today managed to overwhelm its population with excess food...on the other hand looking at their populations, all three major players have done ok so why do you go down the feed the poor road?

It was the saddest day in our history to part ways with our other half.
We should not pretend that Bangladesh was just a burden, it was not.
It was complicated and the physical and linguistic distance was exploited by all politicians/enemies and a barrier was created by both sides.
Army is not a political rescue squad so ofcourse Army action should not have been started if the politicians were absolutely at eachothers throats.
We should have waited it out and i am sure if Mujib was not the right man then he would have been thrown off by all Pakistanis.

Atrocities were committed by all parties but yes being the state at that time Pakistan is scrutinized more, but it was not that Army was the spawn of the devil sent to rape and kill...it was a mission without any definition which made Army operation such a failure and resulted in generating more violence.
However i still maintain that Pak Army is highly disciplined and always willing to sacrifice itself, if given a task they shall obey and put their lives on the line without flinching.
Asking Army to sort out rebels when nearly all Bangalis felt betrayed by the state was a deliberate ploy by the political elite to use the Army as their proxy and shift the focus on the Army whilst denying Mujib the seat of Premier.
In case of both success and failure of the operation the ultimate blame would have either been with Army or Mujib, as it happened we lost Bangal so our politicians had a broken Army to play with and Bhutto did just that.

Pakistanis are indeed sorry for all the bloodshed which we should have avoided, we lost many fine men...majority of the civilians and soldiers that were killed were not to blame for the circumstances that they were thrown in.
May Allah forgive all who were swept up by the civil war.
I can assure all Bangladeshis that this was the biggest tragedy to most Pakistanis.
Both my parents maintain that losing east in 71 was unbearable, most of them suffered from a depression and many did not eat or sleep properly for days after the event!

P.S. I do not drag into the thread the Indian actions that severely worsened the situation because in the end they were our enemy and would have exploited the unrest to their advantage, they did not forget the danger imposed by two Pakistani Pincers surrounding their land!

 

[modernkautilya]

as the arguments are going in forum that what has bygone is bygone.
i request pak ppl to use the same for anbti islamic policy , kashmir, and every where

 

[Skeptic]

As a Muslim and hard core believer of Ummah my greatest desire is to see all Muslim live in prosperity. Our Muslim brother in India are suppress yet they are coping to live in that land because there aren't much option available to them. They have no voice but tolerate discrimination and you are well aware the status of Muslim in India compare to pak or bangla. Pakistan alone will not able to change the mindset of Indian administration or influence them to respect rest of SA nations however combine strength of pak-banlga can change the dynamics of South Asia thus economic betterment of Islamic people of south Asia will be uplifted to maximum including our brother in India. Reformation of greater Islamic empire also foreseeable as we will set up a example to Muslim dominant region who may wish to join us. We will also set up a good example to rest of Islamic world that united Islamic Ummah still alive and vibrant.

Brother lets face it we need each other to survive with dignity in this cruel world. As there is famous Urdu saying.....LAATON KE BHOOT BAATON SE NAHIN MAANTEY....

I request you to drop the topic of Indian Muslims specially in thread related to Bangladesh and Pakistan. Off topic and irrelevant. I have seen several topics already on the forum to discuss the same, try posting in them.

Indian Muslim has time and again denied requirement for any external, higher muslim power to interfere in their matter. You are free to voice your opinion you have developed by reading some news report in Media and sitting in new Jersey. Poor and troubled individuals are present in every country and India is neither an exception nor an amplification of the rule. Indian Muslim do not require patronage from external sources. You can discuss the condition, but I dont think this thread is meant for same.

as the arguments are going in forum that what has bygone is bygone.
i request pak ppl to use the same for anbti islamic policy , kashmir, and every where

Same goes to bringing up Kashmir issue in this, If you so desire please post in the sticky thread for Kashmir solutions, but I'd suggest not to.

 

[Al-zakir]

I request you to drop the topic of Indian Muslims specially in thread related to Bangladesh and Pakistan. Off topic and irrelevant. I have seen several topics already on the forum to discuss the same, try posting in them.

If pull on one ear then other will follow. Our brother in India can not be taken out of the picture when we are talking about the status of Muslim in subcontinent. It will be selfish if we aren't concern about their well being.

 

[Jako]

For the last time,india is a secular country and claims by every right to be so.......we are first indians,then hindus or muslims.....you ask a indian muslim ,'who are you?' You'll get the answer 'i'm an indian',not 'i'm a muslim'..,......both you and them follow the same religion,but i feel the approach is different........

 

[Straight]

Let me have the honor to re welcome you to the forum as you have not been active for a little while and I appreciate your great posts..........

.......

.......Brother lets face it we need each other to survive with dignity in this cruel world. As there is famous Urdu saying.....LAATON KE BHOOT BAATON SE NAHIN MAANTEY....

Your intent of solidifying Ummah---first in this sub-con, and as model to the globe---is highly appreciable.

But, we two can not get it done. Since it is a “we need each other” issue, we should check the general attitudes of people concerned. This respectable forum provides with enough indication on attitudes of general Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and Indians.

I checked---over last 24 hours---various posts to discover any indicative pattern that may throw light on current attitudes of all people concerned:

1. Whether most Pak members of this forum are adequately respectful towards Bangladesh ?
2. In terms of (i) Gentle and Unpolished response and (ii) Reasonable and Arrogant attitude to Bangla members’ post, whom of Pak and Indian members are ahead of the other ?
3. Any common pattern of Pak and Indian members’ posts considering number of abusing hits a Bangla member has to take for making a Bangla-favorable comment ?

Based on my findings, I am doubtful whether appropriate attitude is yet available ? But again, if the time is not ripe now, then when ?

Welcome are all available comments that may clarify the picture.