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Bangladesh Navy

Bhai, if you see I said a scaled down MEKO A-200SAN, the South African Navy ships are @ 3700 tonnes....we don't need that large frigates considering the depth of the Bay of Bengal. What we need are light frigates with good sea keeping, @ 2500 - 2700 tonnes.

The Algerian A-200AN are structurally similar to the Valor class but have a very different systems fit. The $2.7bn contract quoted for the 2 ships are not quite right, first it includes 6 naval helicopters, second it also includes the construction of a whole new naval dockyard to be built in Algeria for the construction of further ships of class to be constructed in Algeria. Third from what we hear there was a lot of "over invoicing".

So what in the end should we buy, something like what i just talked about and the new MEKO CSL....
A01148687130203100716.jpg


The other option we could go for are updated C-28A with VLS instead of a FM90 launcher.

Thanks for your informative post! And my bad for not catching the 'scaled down' part.

Well there's a lot to like about the TKMS MEKO CSL Light Frigate. The 360 degree bridge, higher speed (45 knots), Low draft (<4m), 2 Heli storage, RHIB launch system and above all superb stealthy features are wonderful for a small littoral Navy like ours.

In fact it should be wonderful for the US of A. This one betters the LCS Freedom Littoral ship class by a mile....for the same mission profile.

We might consider New yard construction with TKMS as an option as well and have some of the assets of the older yards transferred to Bangladesh. Khulna Shipyard was also largely supplied and built by the Germans in the 1950's. This may pave the way for further export orders as TKMS is winding down its own yards.

Now the $10,000 question is, does (or will) it fit any of the future mission profiles that BN has per our Littoral threat scenario? Keeping in mind of course different modules available for different missions.

This vessel, while superb, is in fact quite in a different class to what we have now (operationally as well as training-wise) but change has to come sooner or later and sometimes it is 'disruptive'. Like in some of the larger Asian navies as we have seen of late.
 
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@Penguin bhai - does India's Naval planning and strategy allow for purchasing three more?

These are reportedly *based on* the Talwar class design. However are they identical?

What - if any, are the differences?

Also - Bangladesh could get two hulls sans engine (hopefully not rusted out like the Vikramaditya scenario) and duplicate them locally (after powerplant and Chinese weapons integration) with ToT and licensing. Unless the completed hulls come already with a weapons and sensors fit.

But building large 4000 ton frigates is a distant future step - after we complete local builds of the C13B's (056 class) - quite a few years off. Our Navy is already building newer facilities for this assembly....existing Navy-owned facilities may not be sufficient.

Private sector yards (very large portion locally) may also build hull sub-assemblies for the Durjoy and C13B's I am hearing. They won't mind getting the work. :-)

How difficult were the F22P builds? Did they cost more than the purchased F22P's or did Pakistan actually save money?



LCS-3 is a 3000+ tonne ship and LARGER than the Bangabandhu class (and also F22P). Maximum published speed (so far) is 48 knots. Yes virginia it *can* haul some @ss with about a twelve foot roostertail! Here's a video....


Did you know that BN is in the process of taking over CDD (Chittagong Dry Dock). That should facilitate building larger craft.
 
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The other option we could go for are updated C-28A with VLS instead of a FM90 launcher.

If we can adopt these stealthy features into a new type ship similarly sized to the C-28 built in China - that would be a great combination and even better. Have TKMS consult with the Chinese yards on the builds and weapons fit and even bring in better western sensors and radar (like the Indians have done with their larger Russian hulls).
 
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Did you know that BN is in the process of taking over CDD (Chittagong Dry Dock). That should facilitate building larger craft.

Great News!

The Navy does need the facility immediately for its builds.

The displacement capacity for CDD is in the area of 20,000 DWT which should be sufficient for any large Frigate build. It can repair or build ships up to 175 meter in length.

Interesting picture of the two newer Algerian C28A's with a 056 class. Nice to compare sizes.

I like how the masts are now stealthier than previous vessels but the MEKO CSL is of course in another class stealth-wise.

20150212082808799.jpg
 
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Going to focus on the sensor fit and how Chinese sensors/radars fitted on the C-28A are 'watered down' from the 054 class. If we have to go for this purchase - it warrants closer scrutiny. So let's do a deep technical dive - shall we?

The Chinese defense industry sees the C-28A as a smaller scaled-down version of the 054 class and is (depending on glass half full/empty theory) termed as either a 'Heavy Corvette' or a 'Light Frigate'. Conversely the 054 class (and variants) are known of course as full frigates. Bangabandhu class in BN inventory is also considered a light frigate because it displaces only 2300 tons - in spite of being thoroughly modern and capable as it is. C28A is going to be heavier than the Bangabandhu by about 500 tonnes.

Here's a visual rundown of the sensors on the C-28A with the description and specs following. I am especially curious about the Chinese EW suite and will try to gather more info (origin, dependence on Baidou system etc.).

I am also curious how the C-28 compares to the 054 class sensor-wise - but let's look at the C-28A first....

Although not sensor related - the ASW Helis on the C-28A are going to be the older Super Lynx ones (Algeria already operates half a dozen of these). I'd like to know if the smaller (and newer) AW-159 with Dipping Sonar and Sea-Skua capability can be sufficient as a replacement. Bangladesh already is a good customer of Agusta Westland with AW-109 and AW-139 helis in the BN SAR fleet.

argelia+c-28a.jpg


  • The ship is equipped with a Smart-S Mk2 medium to long-range air and surface surveillance 3D multibeam PESA radar designed by Thales Nederland, with a maximum range of 250 KM.
19c720c5524c87935f702f387d391ee8.jpg

  • The C-28A's EW combat system is largely Chinese with the exception of the Thales Smart-S Mk2, associated multifunction operator consoles (MOC)/Tacticos cluster, Link Y datalinks, and associated consoles. Four or so MOC for the Smart-S are integrated with a CSTC-supplied combat management system (CMS).
2005-07-04-BC_Ferries_BMII.jpg

img5141.jpg

0dk5s3

  • One Type 345 fire-control radar system used to guide the FM90N missiles.
Type-345-Engagement-Radar-HL-HQ-7-1S.jpg

  • Two Type 347G (Rice Bowl) fire-control radar used to guide the Type 730 CIWS.
1_232442_1.jpg

  • C28's are also equipped with a hull-mounted Chinese origin sonar. (spec?)
  • Electronic warfare & decoys: ESM: 2 × Type 726-4 Decoy launcher system. (lanzacohetes)
b702.jpg


  • Digital and solid state Type 726-4 decoy launcher system is mounted on both sides of the ship and consists of two launchers.
  • The primary role of the Type 726-4 is to launch chaff and decoys.
  • However, atypically, it may also fire ASW rockets (against submarines, torpedoes, and frogmen), and even be used for shore bombardment.(how?)
  • Each launcher has 18 tubes arranged in three six-tube rows.
  • Firing is typically controlled automatically by the combat data system, but a manual control console is also provided.
Regarding the 054A class' sensors - the following warrants a careful review from AFCEA. Although dated - I believe the analysis still largely stands.

China Deploys New Littoral Ships | SIGNAL Magazine

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Frigates with advanced systems complement guided missile destroyers.

The People’s Republic of China has launched a new series of frigates that provide an effective modern capability for littoral operations. Known as the Type 054 series, these new frigates can be categorized into two classes—the 054 Jingkai and the newer, much more capable 054A. The first appeared about four years ago, but China could be gearing up to produce both variants in large numbers.

China’s impressive new generation 052 Luyang-class guided missile destroyers (DDGs) have made the launching of a new stealthy People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) 054 frigate class go nearly unnoticed. But China has a long history of deploying littoral ships, and it now may be incorporating capabilities hitherto found only in blue-water deployments.

The PLAN has launched 41 frigates in five series classes since 1975, and most still are available for littoral operations. Several obsolete frigates have been scrapped or are in a reserve status, and many of China’s 30 remaining 053/053H Jianghu frigates are not considered modern. Unlike distant blue-water missions, many coastal and shallow-water operations are near local air and surface support and do not require high technology ships. China has only 14 modern 053H3 and 053H2 Jiangweifrigates split between its Eastern and Southern fleets. Basing only four old frigates in the Northern Fleet seems an operational limitation that one Luhu DDG and old Luda destroyers cannot fulfill.

Because of a slow startup production rate for the 054 ships, the PLAN is upgrading the Jiangwei variants to be effective in modern combat scenarios. One upgrade—adding the HN-900 indigent and Russian Light Bulb datalinks—could provide vital connectivity with new DDGs and also Russian Pacific warships. Jiangwei hulls 539 and 540 are removing and replacing their original main guns, search radars, YJ-8 surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) and two 37-millimeter guns, according to Kanwa Defence Review.

The new generation PLAN post-Luda modern DDG designs all have had only one or two hull production runs. It is possible that the 054 frigate design may be the first new PLAN surface warship to be produced in large numbers since the old 053/053H 21-ship Jianghu frigate design from 1970 to 1986. Another clue to this idea is the fact that the production is being split between two shipyards as was done for the Jianghu instead of all being produced at one shipyard. The 054 and especially the 054A are significant new vessels reflecting the PLAN modernization previously seen only in a few DDGs. These demonstrate a more versatile littoral and blue-water combat vessel that could be produced in quantity.

China launched the first new 3,500-ton, 132-meter 054 Jingkai-class frigate, hull 525, named Ma’Anshan, in Shanghai. The second, hull 526, the Wenzhou, was launched in late 2003 in Guangzhou shipyard. In addition to a sleek stealthy design, the most noticeable feature on these two ships is their large radome on the mast aft of the diesel propulsion intake vent structure.

There are conflicting descriptions of the large radome details. Kanwa Defence Review calls it the SR-64, which is a modern sophisticated anti-ship missile detect-and-track radar in the H band. The 2006 edition of Jane’s Naval Weapon Systems calls it Type 364 Seagull C at G band. It previously was on only the newest 052B and 052C Luyang DDGs. Its maximum detection range for SSMs is 12,000 meters, and it handles target speeds of up to Mach 3.0. This mandates very high data rate calculations.

The 052C Luyang has two Russian seven-barrel Type 730 close-in weapon system (CIWS) and two Rice Bowl fire control radars. The 054 frigate has four six-barrel Type 630 CIWS, which is a Chinese copy of the Russian AK-630. The firing rate of the CIWS is 4,500 to 5,000 rounds per minute. However, there is only one Type 347G Rice Bowl fire control radar located on the deck above the helicopter hangar.

This is a serious 054 CIWS limitation, because the single aft Rice Bowl fire control radar can engage incoming targets on only one side, and there are two mounts on each side. This CIWS radar completes the anti-SSM suite by taking over contact tracking at a range of 3,000 meters. This enables a good track solution when the incoming target reaches the CIWS gatling gun maximum range. Type 054 has a backup optic-electronic OFD-630 tracker in case of electronic jamming of the gun radar, which could provide limited aid to the two Type 630 guns on the side that Rice Bowl cannot engage.


The two 054 ships have the French Crotale HQ-7 surface-to-air missile (SAM) system with eight missiles having a range of 13 kilometers. The Type 345 fire control radar is the I/J-band radar for Crotale. Two Racal Decca 1290 navigation radars, or the RM-1290 I-band Chinese copies, are located on the foremast yardarms. The electronic countermeasures jammers appear to be the Type 984 I band and Type 985 for the E/F band that are on Luyang DDGs. The passive ESM probably is an SR-210 intercept receiver as on Luyang DDGs and Jiangwei II frigates.

The combat direction system (CDS) is designated ZKSB4/6, according to a French source. It is a copy of the French TAVITAC CDS. France first sold the Thomson CSF TAVITAC to China for initial installation on upgraded Luda II DDG 105 and 109 in 1987 and the Luhu DDG 112 and 114 in 1994. The lead ship FFG 525 has eight YJ-2 SSMs with a speed of Mach 1.5 and a range of 120 kilometers (75 miles), but these are replaced on FFG 526 with newer YJ-83 with a speed of Mach 2.0 and a range extended to 150 kilometers (95 miles).

The enlarged helicopter hangar allows deployment of the antisubmarine warfare (ASW) Ka-28 helicopter, which is a sophisticated ASW platform. Russian ASW avionics sensors include the OKA-2 or newer dipping sonar, APM series MAD, Novella surveillance radar and Baku sonobuoy system for RGB series active or passive sonobuoys. Weapons include three APR-2 Orlan active/passive torpedoes or PLAB-250 Lastochka depth bombs. Although the bow sonar is not named in current references, it could be either a French medium frequency DUBV-23 or a Chinese-built copy.

The only visible ASW weapons are two triple barrel ASW torpedo tube launchers with Yu-variant homing torpedoes along with the ubiquitous cell ASW mortars on the forecastle. There is no hint at possible CY-1 anti-submarine rocket (ASROC) loadout. It is more likely that this would be found in the 527 and later upgraded 054A versions. The 1986 ASIANDEX naval exhibition in China first displayed a missile that looked like the U.S. Navy ASROC missile with Yu-2 (MK 46 copy) payload. It has been rumored that several PLAN warships from Luda DDGs to Jiangwei frigates have CY-1 capability, but it has never been verified or observed. Photographs have shown a Jiangwei forward six-barrel launcher firing a CSAN-2 SAM. The CY-1 probably cannot be loaded because it is longer than the Jiangwei launcher. At least one reference has cited a passive towed array capability for 054, but this is not visible. The main battery is a 100-millimeter gun that is a copy of the French Creusot-Loire. It provides 80-round-per-minute rapid fire and features dual-purpose automatic reloading. The gun turret has a new stealthy cover as is found on the Luyang DDGs.

The propulsion is one that has been common for PLAN ships for more than 20 years using SEMT Pielstick 16 PAC STC diesels. One difference with the 054 frigates is that their diesels are license built by Hudong Shipyard. This has resulted in many reported breakdowns at sea with the lead 054 ship. It had to be towed back to port in mid-2005 during shipyard sea trials. It was expected that following the practice of all post-1990 new DDG designs, there would be only a few of these built. This was reinforced by the fact that only eight Kamewa screws were procured from Sweden for four hulls.

The 054A offers many powerful weapon characteristics that reflect PLAN ship evolution. A stealthy-looking model frigate, called F16U, was displayed at a 2000 naval exhibit by Hudong Shipyard. It resembles the upgraded 054A with a vertical launch system (VLS) forward and a large three-dimensional radar. Western experts predicted a VLS addition in the 054 modernization, but the actual 054A included many more unexpected weapon upgrades transforming the offensive capabilities from the 054 frigate baseline.

The third and fourth hull 527 and 528 were launched in 2006 in Hudong and Guangzhou shipyards. Replacing the limited-range Crotale HQ-7 forward SAM is not the rotating HQ-7 drum type VLS that was on 052C. The new rectangular module has 32 square hatches and resembles the U.S. Navy MK 41 VLS. The designation of this new VLS is unknown, as it has previously been observed only on an experimental weapon platform.

Other unexpected upgrades appeared. Four Shtil SAN-6 SAM directors provide the capability to detect and track multiple targets and to rapidly launch VLS SAMs against them. A Bandstand Mineral active ME-1 and passive ME-2 SSM track radome above the bridge greatly enhances targeting for the eight YJ-83 SSMs. A back-to-back three-dimensional Top Plate E/F-band air search radar is similar to the Russian Fregate radar on new DDGs. A new radome is added on the deck above the aft helicopter hangar where the CIWS Rice Lamp radar had been. Replacement of the 630 CIWS with the 730 CIWS, which are copies of French Goalkeeper CIWS, place the radar director above the gun such as on the U.S. Phalanx. The 100-millimeter main battery was replaced by the new Russian AK 176M 76-millimeter gun with a stealth turret.

The 054A may be the optimal candidate to carry the CY-1 ASW missile. The VLS is the optimal launcher for the CY-1 ASW ASROC. The medium frequency bow sonar can acquire submarine contacts at maximum CY-1 ranges to optimize the ASW sensor/weapon performance. New satellite communication or Light Bulb SSM datalink radomes are added port and starboard on the SR-64 pedestal. The 054A configuration resolved the problem of the inability of a single CIWS fire control to control the four 630 guns against incoming targets from port and starboard. It achieved this by using 730 CIWS units with their own fire control radars. The 054A also has underwater roll stabilizer fins beneath the mack to reduce roll.

The two lead 054 ships probably would be based where most of the East Fleet frigates always have been at the Dinghai base on ZhoushanIsland. The modern Luang DDGs have been based at Xiangshan harbor just south of the Fleet Headquarters at Ningbo. That is where there is a Russian support enclave for training and maintenance support for the complex DDG Russian combat systems. It would be practical for the 054A frigates to be based with the Luyangs and Sovremmenyis because they share the same complex 730 CIWS, VLS, three-dimensional Top Pair, SR-64, Bandstand, SAN-6 SAM directors and other electronics not found on the 054 or any other PLAN frigate.

These new PLAN frigates shift the naval force balance between China and its maritime neighbors. Taiwan’s navy has eight each U.S.Perry- and Knox-class frigates and six French Lafayette-class frigates. This gives Taiwan a significant force when assessing the PLAN Jiangkai.

The United States built 30 Perry-class FFG frigates from 1977 to 1987. Taiwan’s frigates come from a dated design but have many upgraded systems. Perry ASW systems include LAMPS ASW helicopter deck, six torpedo tubes, SQS-56 hull LF sonar and SQR-19 towed array. Other systems are the MK 13 launcher for four Harpoon SSM and 36 SM-1 SAMs, one 76-millimeter gun, one Phalanx CIWS, air search, surface search and gun/missile fire control radars, and two LM-2500 gas turbines for propulsion.

The United States built 44 Knox-class frigates in the early 1970s and decommissioned all of them by the early 1990s. Taiwan bought eight of those equipped with ASROC, helicopter deck, LF bow sonar, one CIWS, one 5-inch gun and the usual radars and EW, but modernization of some systems is ongoing. The lack of an SSM capability was rectified by putting four Harpoon missiles in outer ASROC launcher cells.

The six French Lafayette-class ships built from 1994 to 1996 with a stealthy hull design are more comparable to the PLAN 054. The Lafayette has the same CIWS and 76-millimeter gun as the Perry, but it also has French Thomson air, surface and fire control radars and LF sonar. The old Sea Chaparrel SAM is being replaced with SM-1 SAM MK 41 VLS launchers. The Taiwan-designed eight-cell Hsiung Feng SSM launcher lacks a long-range anti-SSM detection radar similar to the SR-64 on Type 054. The Lafayette weighs 3,700 tons, is 125-meters long and has four SEMT Pielstick 16 PA diesel propulsion and the TAVITAC combat direction system, as does the Jingkai class.

Increasing Sino-Japan naval tensions and intrusions make the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) frigates worth mention. The JMSDF has nine 1980-1991 vintage frigates of three traditional non-stealthy designs. All have a 76-millimeter main gun, combined gas turbine and combined diesel or gas propulsion along with Harpoon SSM launchers and six ASW torpedo tubes. Only the largest—the 2,550-ton Abukuma class of six ships has Phalanx CIWS and super high frequency satellite communications as well as an ASROC ASW long-range launcher. The two 1,760-ton Yubari and single 1,450-ton Ishikari have British Bofor ASW mortars. All have chaff decoy launchers and passive electronic support measures systems. The Jingkai generally is superior to all of these JMSDF frigates in anti-aircraft warfare and offensive and defensive SSM combat, but not in ASW.

James C. Bussert is employed at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren, Virginia, where he works on surface-ship antisubmarine fire control systems.

- See more at: China Deploys New Littoral Ships | SIGNAL Magazine
 
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yeah i got it, anti-piracy ops is absolatly right, but against israel mistal is no more then a iron coffin. but it makes sence israel and egypt is not going to war in near future. :coffee:

sir, what your choice of friget for bangladesh navy......................:raise:
Peace Treaty since 1979.... In 2012, the Muslim Brotherhood declared their support for the peace treaty. Israeli Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu affirmed he had no problem dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood so long as the peace treaty was respected. Both Israel and Egypt remain major recipients of US military and foreign aid.

@damiendehorn agreed :-)

Valour class is a great design (Stealthy, well-armed), but I checked Wiki and it said displacement is closer to 3700 tonnes. So maybe they quoted wrong?

The hull and other modifications were made to the Meko A200 design so it could survive high Sea States around the cape. A lot of South African (DENEL manufactured) weapons (such as a 32-canister VLS package of the Umkhonto point defense missile) is now offered with the standard A-200 weapons fit.

However the Algerians paid about Euro 2 Billion for their two A-200's (maybe the SAAB weapons fit was higher grade?)

First Algerian MEKO A-200 frigate undocked - IHS Jane's 360

@Penguin bhai what are your thoughts?

The algerian ships are very heavily armed: 16 RBS15 (rather than 8) 32 Umkhonto (rather than 16). Oto Melara 127/64 LW 127mm main gun (possibly with VULCANO ammunition) etc. That should bump price a bit. However, usually a contract is for more than just the ship and systems. Check what is includes: additional ordnance, spares, (multiyear) training, (multiyear) maintenance?
Meko_A-200AN_Frigate_Algeria_Navy_TKMS_model_Euronaval_2014_1.jpg



Meko_A-200AN_Frigate_Algeria_Navy_TKMS_model_Euronaval_2014_4.JPG


A smaller version is available MEKOA100 (aka cancelled Garwon class for Poland, not to be confused with MEKO100 OPV aka Kedah class for Malaysia):

Displacement: 1,650-2,050 tonnes
Length: 90.10–95.20 m (295.6–312.3 ft)
Beam: 12.80–13.30 m (42.0–43.6 ft)
Draught: 3.35–3.60 m (11.0–11.8 ft)
Propulsion:
  • 1 × General Electric LM2500 gas turbine
  • 2 × MTU diesel engines
Speed: 29.5 kn (55 km/h)

Proj621_Gawron-class.jpg
 
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Peace Treaty since 1979.... In 2012, the Muslim Brotherhood declared their support for the peace treaty. Israeli Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu affirmed he had no problem dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood so long as the peace treaty was respected. Both Israel and Egypt remain major recipients of US military and foreign aid.



The algerian ships are very heavily armed: 16 RBS15 (rather than 8) 32 Umkhonto (rather than 16). Oto Melara 127/64 LW 127mm main gun (possibly with VULCANO ammunition) etc. That should bump price a bit. However, usually a contract is for more than just the ship and systems. Check what is includes: additional ordnance, spares, (multiyear) training, (multiyear) maintenance?
Meko_A-200AN_Frigate_Algeria_Navy_TKMS_model_Euronaval_2014_1.jpg



Meko_A-200AN_Frigate_Algeria_Navy_TKMS_model_Euronaval_2014_4.JPG


A smaller version is available MEKOA100 (aka cancelled Garwon class for Poland, not to be confused with MEKO100 OPV aka Kedah class for Malaysia):

Displacement: 1,650-2,050 tonnes
Length: 90.10–95.20 m (295.6–312.3 ft)
Beam: 12.80–13.30 m (42.0–43.6 ft)
Draught: 3.35–3.60 m (11.0–11.8 ft)
Propulsion:
  • 1 × General Electric LM2500 gas turbine
  • 2 × MTU diesel engines
Speed: 29.5 kn (55 km/h)

Proj621_Gawron-class.jpg

The MEKO system are very modular, which can be seen in the varity of designs. I like the A-100 that was offered to Poland, but size and weapons fit wise its more of a corvette then a frigate, a tad too light. From what I am hearing the navy wants something thats around 2500 tonnes to 3000 tonnes.

The government on the other hand for personal reasons want to maintan the Bangabundhu as the navys flagship, so they would like a cheaper smaller and ultimately less capable ship.
 
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The MEKO system are very modular, which can be seen in the varity of designs. I like the A-100 that was offered to Poland, but size and weapons fit wise its more of a corvette then a frigate, a tad too light. From what I am hearing the navy wants something thats around 2500 tonnes to 3000 tonnes.

The government on the other hand for personal reasons want to maintan the Bangabundhu as the navys flagship, so they would like a cheaper smaller and ultimately less capable ship.

So, the navy is looking for a light frigate.

MEKO A100 corvette (2400 ton fld)
ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems

MEKO CSL CSL Light Frigate (2750 ton fld)
ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems
 
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The government on the other hand for personal reasons want to maintain the Bangabundhu as the navys flagship, so they would like a cheaper smaller and ultimately less capable ship.

If its up to SHW to dictate Bangladesh Naval doctrine for personal reasons - then it is a huge disappointment.

Why not order two of the MEKO CSL's and re-name one of them as Bangabandhu and another one as her mother? :coffee:

We can't stay at the Bangabandhu light frigate stage forever.....

By the way what is the price difference between the C28A's for Algeria (as fitted with western sensors and Chinese armament) vs. a MEKO CSL with standard weapons fit? And thinking about which - will they sell NATO weapons like RAM launchers, ASROC and Goalkeeper to Bangladesh?
 
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So, the navy is looking for a light frigate.

MEKO A100 corvette (2400 ton fld)
ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems

MEKO CSL CSL Light Frigate (2750 ton fld)
ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems

The navy wants 2 frigates each above 2500 tonnes but under 3500 tonnes which would make them technically light frigates as most modern day frigates are over 4500 tonnes. They also need to be capable of handling a light/medium helicopter, 2 quad ASHMs launchers, short/medim sam launchers, CIWS....these are what were hearing.

The front runners are South Korea with a modified version of their FFX (the BN is looking closely at what the pinoys are looking at) or a version of the Chinese C28A bought by Algeria. The MEKO A100 is a serious option, but the full size MEKO CSL is very expensive....well lets see what the Germans can offer.

The latest news is that the Russians are interested in tendering! The BN don't should too interested though.
 
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The navy wants 2 frigates each above 2500 tonnes but under 3500 tonnes which would make them technically light frigates as most modern day frigates are over 4500 tonnes. They also need to be capable of handling a light/medium helicopter, 2 quad ASHMs launchers, short/medim sam launchers, CIWS....these are what were hearing.

The front runners are South Korea with a modified version of their FFX (the BN is looking closely at what the pinoys are looking at) or a version of the Chinese C28A bought by Algeria. The MEKO A100 is a serious option, but the full size MEKO CSL is very expensive....well lets see what the Germans can offer.

The latest news is that the Russians are interested in tendering! The BN don't should too interested though.

MaxDefense, one of the better Pinoy blogs talking about Phillippines Navy purchases, discussed the DAEWOO options. They are looking at FFX Batch II (enlarged design), not the original FFX (Incheon class). This information is quite dated however (December 2013).


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Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd. (DSME)

DSME is the world's 2nd largest shipbuilder and was also one of the participants in the Ulsan-class frigate project of the ROKN in the 1980s. They are also known for their recent frigate contracts with the Royal Thai Navy and Republic of Korea Navy with its DW-3000H and FFX-2 designs, respectively.
For the Philippine Navy, it is unexpected for DSME to offer these designs exactly as they are due to costs and technical requirements. MaxDefense believes that they will be offering at least 1 of 2 possible designs: a derivative of their DW-2500 frigate design which was originally offered to a neighboring navy before, or a reduced capability variant of the new and larger FFX Batch 2 frigate.

a. DW-2500H derivative - this is a design DSME reportedly offered to Thailand some years ago, and has a full load displacement of around 2,500 tons. It is actually an upsized derivative of the Bangladeshi Navy's Bangabandhu-class frigate which was based on the smaller DW-2000H design. The DW-2500H has a CODAD propulsion and can reach speeds of up to 28 knots and can carry a medium-sized naval helicopter. Based on the photo below, it appears that the ship's length is a little more than 100 meters, and is armed with a 76mm main gun, 2 8-cell VLS in the B-position, 2 x quad AShM launchers and 2 x triple torpedo tube launchers at midships, and 2 x medium caliber secondary guns, probably 40mm guns from Hyundai WIA acting as a CIWS system. MaxDefense believes that this is the closest ship that DSME has to offer to the PN, but may not have enough growth margin for future development.


A0115230313050130228.jpg

The DW-2500 was offered to Thailand before choosing the newer and larger KDX-II derivative design. It is the closest design that DSME may offer according to the PN requirements and budget. Photo taken from thaifighterclub.org.

* Possible changes for the PN may include the absence of the 2 x 8-cell VLS in favor of a simpler, cheaper multiple VSHORAD missle system launcher, reduction of the number of SSM launchers, and the replacement of the 40mm CIWS system with a smaller PN-specific model although the chances of it being retained is also high.
b. FFX Batch 2 derivative - if the PN is luckier, DSME may also offer the new FFX-2 design with reduced capability, only retaining the hull but only meeting the minimum requirements with regards to the sensors, weapons, and EW systems. Unlike the older DW-2500H light frigate design, the new FFX-2 design is physically larger, heavier, has a sleeker stealthy design, and has a larger future growth margin. MaxDefense believes that this can still be possibly offered by DSME since the PN has put emphasis on the future requirements which may need a large growth margin allowance for additional weapons and sensory systems as the PN tries to catch-up in the future. The PN may be pointing to a larger hull, ready to accept future upgrades with suffering from space shortage and weight considerations.​
* Possible items for replacement include the LIG Nex1 3D surveillance radar with a 2D variant, the 127mm main gun to a 76mm as specified either the 76mm Super Rapid from Oto Melara or a similar design from Hyundai WIA; the use of a automated 4-shot missile launcher for VSHORAD missile system similar to LIG Nex1's Chiron MMS instead of the KVLS system; removal of the ROKN-specified Mk. 15 Phalanx CIWS and replaced by a system similar to the Mk. 38 Mod. 2; and reduction of anti-ship missile launchers to only 4 tubes.​

xdo5.jpg
A FFX Batch II hull but with reduced weapons and sensors capability can also be offered by DSME, as it is physically larger than the DW-2000 frigate design, and will be able to take in the initial requirements and still have weight and space allowances for future upgrades. Photo taken from Ambassador @ Military Photos.net forum.

Special mention:
DW-2000H derivative - this is actually a late 1990s design that was constantly updated by DSME for future projects. It is actually another derivative of the late 1970s Ulsan-class frigate design of the ROKN. Although it eerily has almost everything the PN is looking for, MaxDefense sources say that it doesn't have the capability to carry a 10-ton naval helicopter and cannot meet the range and endurance requirements as specified by the PN.​


The BNS Bangabandhu (F-25), the most modern frigate of the Bangladesh Navy, is actually based on the DW-2000 light frigate design.
It lacks some of the requirements of the PN so it may not be offered.

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I also found the following section in that same blog, 'interesting' since it discussed the sensors available from Korea (some of them associated with the FFX II). Interesting because the Koreans (HYUNDAI and SAMSUNG) were licensing and producing almost every known Naval sensor and countermeasures suite. This is most advantageous in case we go for the FFX II because of ease of local weapons fitment in Korea and availability of support. Being that we enjoy a very close industrial and investment relationship with Korea (as with China), these strengths can be brought to bear.

Associated Ship Systems:
Other than the ships themselves, the weapons and sensors systems can also be analyzed based on the shipbuilders. Most notable is the presence of all Korean companies that bought the bid documents which will probably be using Korean or French-made systems based on their previous products.

LIG Nex1
This new Korean company is actually in the forefront of the Korean electronic and missile system technology, and has a complete range of products to offer. Their products would likely be included in most of the Korean frigate offers which may include but not limited on the following products:
- SLQ-300(V) Sonata EW Suite;
- Next Generation Milsatcom Systems;
- Ulsan-I class 3D Surveillance Radar;
- Ulsan-I class Hull Mounted Sonar;
- Chiron VSHORAD and Chiron MLS missile system;
- SSM-700K C-Star (Haesun) anti-ship missile system;
- Blue Shark lightweight torpedo system;
- Torpedo Accoustic Countermeasures


LIG Nex1's Chiron VSHORAD missile system in multiple launcher platform may be offered by the Koreans for the anti-aircraft missile requirement. This might be the minimum offer. Photo taken from LIG Nex1's website.

Samsung Thales - its close association with defense systems manufacturer Thales has helped them come up with their own systems that are currently in used in most new Korean naval vessels, and might be included in the ship offers to the Philippines, including:
- Naval Shield Integrated Combat Management System (NS-ICMS);
- Short Range Tracking Radar systems.

ELEC_FFX_Frigate_Combat_System_SamsungThales_lg.jpg
Samsung Thales' Naval Shield CMS may be offered with the HHI and DSME offers, although other manufacturers like Thales may have the chance to snatch the deal if it can.
Photo taken from Samsung Thales website.


Hyundai WIA - a part of the Hyundai conglomerate, this Korean machinery and tool manufacturer makes naval gun products under license from Oto Melara and Thales Nederland. The following naval guns may be offered as an alternative to the original European models:
- 76mm naval gun;
- 40mm naval gun;
- Goalkeeper CIWS.
Besides these Korean companies, MaxDefense believes that European defense products may also be bundled as well, especially for the Navantia offer.

Thales Group may offer their TACTICOS Combat Management System and Smart-S Mk.2 3D surveillance radar system, Mirador and Sting EO Mk. 2 tracking radar system, Vigile advanced naval ESM system, the CAPTAS series (probably CAPTAS-2) of variable towed low frequency sonar. The Kingklip medium frequency hull mounted sonar may not be fit for offer as the PN is looking for a low-frequency sonar.


The Thales CAPTAS series of low frequency towed array sonars may be offered as part of the sonar system requirements of the PN.
Photo taken from Thales Group website.
 
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For comparison purposes, here's a more recent scale model of the FFX Batch II as presented by DSME during Euronaval 2014. (images copyright NavyRecognition.com).

IMG_5012.JPG
DSME_FFX_BatchII_Euronaval_2014_1.JPG
DSME_FFX_BatchII_Euronaval_2014_2.JPG


The neat thing is - it contains VLS! What would be the advantage of having VLS compared to an FM-90 cluster (in the Bangladesh Navy scenario)? Mast is almost identical to C28A mast (Thales Smart radar at the top) but of course having Western sensors instead of Chinese units. And Goalkeeper (in the last image) has a good radii of firing all around the ship.

Not a lot of specs on the FFX II's have been firmed up yet. Deagel says,

"The FFX II or Batch II includes eight ships to be built by DSME. The FFX II vessels's all-electric propulsion system is based upon a single Rolls-Royce MT30 gas turbine. In addition, the FFX II will include a 16-cell Korean Vertical Launch System (KVLS) for longer range surface-to-air missiles and Red Shark anti-submarines missiles. A larger hangar will be provided for operations of 10-ton class helicopters. The first ship of the Batch II may be commissioned by the RoKN by 2017 or 2018."

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Regardless of which one we finalize with (C28 or FFX II) - the hulls and superstructures must be built locally starting at least with the second unit - a la F22P. There is no dearth of capability or initiative here and it gives us a foothold into the lucrative and competitive business of building naval vessels for smaller Navies worldwide. The time to start is now, Better now than never.

Any deal we reach with the purchase of the Frigates must reflect this ToT factor.

It is a huge disservice to the highly capable yards (both Navy-owned as well as private) in our country to not give them the capability and technology transfer during this important project (probably *the* most important naval project in Bangladesh history - ever).


Further...hybrid drivetrain on the FFX II. Is this sufficiently proven? We are talking Bangladesh conditions here, and lets not talk about spares embargoes. :rolleyes1:

DRS Technologies Awarded Contract to provide a hybrid electric powertrain frigates FFX Batch II

ARLINGTON, VA, MARCH 19, 2014

DRS Technologies Inc., a Finmeccanica Company, announced today a contract award to design and produce a Hybrid Electric Drive (HED) propulsion system for the Republic of Korea Navy's future Incheon-class multipurpose frigate Known As FFX Batch II (FFX-II).

The contract, valued at more than $ 9 million USD, was awarded to DRS's Maritime and Combat Support Systems group by Korea's Hyosung Corporation and will include the design, testing, and manufacture of hybrid electric drive (HED ) Permanent magnet motors and associated motor drives for the first ship-set to be Delivered in 2015.

The Incheon-class frigates are coastal defense frigates of the Republic of Korea (ROK) Navy. The frigates are expected to replace the aging fleet of Pohang and Ulsan-class corvette-class frigates, and to take over multi-role operations Such as coast patrol, anti-submarine warfare and transportation support.

The first FFX-II being white ship is built by Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering and Will include a DRS system HED That Will allow for more efficient and quiet operation of the propulsion plant. Up to eight FFX-II ships are planned over the next several years.

DRS's HED permanent magnet motors, designed and built by DRS Power Technology, Inc. in Fitchburg, MA - have significant advantages in size, weight and power over conventional electric motors and Produce more torque from the Sami Supplied amount of current. Their smaller footprint Allows more flexibility in engine room design and Increased cargo space, and their simpler construction results in proven reliability and durability.

The complementary naval marine HED advanced motor drives are designed and built by DRS Power and Control Technologies in Milwaukee, WI. With high efficiency performance at full and part load, contention systems can Provide significant fuel and maintenance costs savings, along with operational flexibility, When incorporated into a ship propulsion system.
 
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is it batter then indian talwar class or less capable?
In essence, it IS Talwar but with VL Shtil (which makes Grogorovich better able to use Shtil missiles against modern air threats). If IN decides to give Talwar a MLU in which the SRL is replaced with 2x12 VLU, its equal again. Talwars may have some advantages in EW and ASW/Sonar over the Grogorovich.
 
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