Bangladesh Navy

[masud]

Nah, they are acquiring ships from the French.

yeah and the most rediculas is.......mistal class.

 

[bdslph]

yeah and the most rediculas is.......mistal class.

it is more like show of power

 

[masud]

it is more like show of power

no it,s not.............it,s international polatics.

 

[Penguin]

yeah and the most rediculas is.......mistal class.

That actually makes sense....

 

[45'22']

i thought you believe in made in India and India is self-depended who builds indigenous warships

I believe in make in India but our 2 shipyards who have experience with frigates arent free
If Russia partners with our pipapav then it will be a time consuming process

Well, supply and demand at work, I would say. If India isn't interested (it could get the necessary engines directly from Ukraine), where are the Russians going to go with these ships? And if they are stuck with them, prices wil drop, fast. There being an alternative buyer, should also affect the price for the 'preferred' buyer, India.


India - or any client - can directly order the GtUs from Ukraine (who are stuck with 3 sets of GtUs that they won't be delivering to Russia) , and 'drop' them in.

True about supply n demand
But i think the chances of India buying upgraded talwars at a higher price got more chances than Bangladesh going for the frigates

 

[Penguin]

I believe in make in India but our 2 shipyards who have experience with frigates arent free
If Russia partners with our pipapav then it will be a time consuming process

True about supply n demand
But i think the chances of India buying upgraded talwars at a higher price got more chances than Bangladesh going for the frigates

IN already has training, maintenance and logistics for these ships in place, so adding more is relatively low cost. That is different for BN.

 

[Bilal9]

IN already has training, maintenance and logistics for these ships in place, so adding more is relatively low cost. That is different for BN.

@Penguin bhai - does India's Naval planning and strategy allow for purchasing three more?

These are reportedly *based on* the Talwar class design. However are they identical?

What - if any, are the differences?

Also - Bangladesh could get two hulls sans engine (hopefully not rusted out like the Vikramaditya scenario) and duplicate them locally (after powerplant and Chinese weapons integration) with ToT and licensing. Unless the completed hulls come already with a weapons and sensors fit.

But building large 4000 ton frigates is a distant future step - after we complete local builds of the C13B's (056 class) - quite a few years off. Our Navy is already building newer facilities for this assembly....existing Navy-owned facilities may not be sufficient.

Private sector yards (very large portion locally) may also build hull sub-assemblies for the Durjoy and C13B's I am hearing. They won't mind getting the work.

How difficult were the F22P builds? Did they cost more than the purchased F22P's or did Pakistan actually save money?

Ships from the Bangladesh and U.S. navies gather in formation in the Bay of Bengal during Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) Bangladesh 2015. This is#partnershipsmatter in action with the U.S.
Navy and Bangladesh Navy working together at sea

In picture :
• Freedom-class littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS-3)
• Type 053H2 (Jianghu-III) Class Guided Missile Frigate BNS Abu Bakar
(F-15)
• Modified Ulsan-class (DW-2000H) Guided Missile Frigate BNS
Bangabandhu (F-25)
• Castle Class Guided Missile Corvette BNS Dhaleshwari (F36)

© CARAT - Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training

LCS-3 is a 3000+ tonne ship and LARGER than the Bangabandhu class (and also F22P). Maximum published speed (so far) is 48 knots. Yes virginia it *can* haul some @ss with about a twelve foot roostertail! Here's a video....

 

[damiendehorn]

These russian frigates won't be anywhere as cheap as $300m, even without the main engines and subsystems. The lowest price that you could expect for these are about $500m to $550m each, then you'll be in trouble....here's why....say by some majical reason we managed to persuade the Russians to sell these frigates to us for under $500m each, do you think the Ukrainians would sell us the turbines for anywhere what they were selling them to the Russians? Knowing that were now stuck with these, with the only option to fit them with the Ukrainian turbines they would just hike the price. Its a bad idea, you'd end up paying a lot more in the end.

Just look at the price the Indians paid for each of their latest Talwar class frigates to get an idea of the cost. Then remember our budget is around $570m for 2 LIGHT frigates.

 

[Bilal9]

These russian frigates won't be anywhere as cheap as $300m, even without the main engines and subsystems. The lowest price that you could expect for these are about $500m to $550m each, then you'll be in trouble....here's why....say by some majical reason we managed to persuade the Russians to sell these frigates to us for under $500m each, do you think the Ukrainians would sell us the turbines for anywhere what they were selling them to the Russians? Knowing that were now stuck with these, with the only option to fit them with the Ukrainian turbines they would just hike the price. Its a bad idea, you'd end up paying a lot more in the end.

Just look at the price the Indians paid for each of their latest Talwar class frigates to get an idea of the cost. Then remember our budget is around $570m for 2 LIGHT frigates.

I didn't know the frigates were that expensive.

If Ukrainians try to milk us, couldn't we go with the GE LM2500 turbines? These decades proven units are used in the BNS Somudra Joy class as well. I think the latest Indian Kolkata class destroyers also run on four of those units. At most the Russian frigates will need two for their size.

But yeah I do see your point.

So if this doesn't work out then is the Chinese C28 the best choice?

 

[damiendehorn]

I didn't know the frigates were that expensive.

If Ukrainians try to milk us, couldn't we go with the GE LM2500 turbines? These decades proven units are used in the BNS Somudra Joy class as well. I think the latest Indian Kolkata class destroyers also run on four of those units. At most the Russian frigates will need two for their size.

But yeah I do see your point.

So if this doesn't work out then is the Chinese C28 the best choice?

Its boubtful if they can be reconfigured to take other turbines that easily, even if they could the cost of doing so would increase their price substantially. This is the reason why the russians are in the spot they are in.

We have other options available, depending on what user requirements are? Do we want medium sized frigates @ 4000+ tonnes or do we want light frigates @ 2000+ toones?

My prefered options are German scaled down MEKO A-200SAN Valor class @ 2700 tonnes instead of 3700 tonnes, German yards are in a desperate state right now and the German government are happy to provide long term loans....its possible to get them for around €300m each. Remember also Germany is a big potential importer of our RMG....so a deal can be made were we buy German frigates and latter subs in return for their support in expand imports of our RMG.

 

[masud]

That actually makes sense....

sir, i am quiet interested to know how ?

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin bhai - does India's Naval planning and strategy allow for purchasing three more?

These are reportedly *based on* the Talwar class design. However are they identical?

What - if any, are the differences?

Visible difference relative to Talwar Batch 2 are limited mainly to the use of a VLU for Shtil (rather than a single ral launcher). Also, the russian ships would not have any of the non-russian equipment that those of the IN have e.g. French or Indian sonars, Kelvin Hughes Nucleus-2 6000A radar set for short-range navigation and surface surveillance, BEL Ajanta EW/ESM system

Also - Bangladesh could get two hulls sans engine (hopefully not rusted out like the Vikramaditya scenario) and duplicate them locally (after powerplant and Chinese weapons integration) with ToT and licensing. Unless the completed hulls come already with a weapons and sensors fit.

What do you mean 'rusted out'. These are brand new hulls, building. There is no comparison whatsoever with the starting situation of the Gorshkov T-AKR when the conversion to INS Vikramaditya began.

Of the last 3 russian ships ordered, the first was laid down summer 2013, the second in fall 2013, the third has yet to start building. They are all scheduled for commissioning in 2017-18. IO don't see why you would want to put Chinese weapons on these. The only issue with the Russian ships is that they use Ukrainan gass turbines. The buyer would simply buy turbines from Ukraine and fit them locally. ( I would think the Ukraininans would be happy do oblige for else they would loose the sale of 3 shipsets)

sir, i am quiet interested to know how ?

1. Look at the ongoing modernization effort of the EN. Is entails a red sea and a med fleet.
2. Look at the age and state of their current landing assets. Pretty useless, old, manpower intensive small stuff

Mistrals make good command ships, have hospitals, their helicopter assets are way more flexible than the small landing craft. Esp with an eye to anti-piracy ops in the Arabian sea.

 

[masud]

1. Look at the ongoing modernization effort of the EN. Is entails a red sea and a med fleet.
2. Look at the age and state of their current landing assets. Pretty useless, old, manpower intensive small stuff

Mistrals make good command ships, have hospitals, their helicopter assets are way more flexible than the small landing craft. Esp with an eye to anti-piracy ops in the Arabian sea.

yeah i got it, anti-piracy ops is absolatly right, but against israel mistal is no more then a iron coffin. but it makes sence israel and egypt is not going to war in near future.

sir, what your choice of friget for bangladesh navy......................

 

[Bilal9]

My prefered options are German scaled down MEKO A-200SAN Valor class @ 2700 tonnes instead of 3700 tonnes

@damiendehorn agreed

Valour class is a great design (Stealthy, well-armed), but I checked Wiki and it said displacement is closer to 3700 tonnes. So maybe they quoted wrong?

The hull and other modifications were made to the Meko A200 design so it could survive high Sea States around the cape. A lot of South African (DENEL manufactured) weapons (such as a 32-canister VLS package of the Umkhonto point defense missile) is now offered with the standard A-200 weapons fit.

However the Algerians paid about Euro 2 Billion for their two A-200's (maybe the SAAB weapons fit was higher grade?)

First Algerian MEKO A-200 frigate undocked - IHS Jane's 360

@Penguin bhai what are your thoughts?

 

[damiendehorn]

@damiendehorn agreed

Valour class is a great design (Stealthy, well-armed), but I checked Wiki and it said displacement is closer to 3700 tonnes. So maybe they quoted wrong?

The hull and other modifications were made to the Meko A200 design so it could survive high Sea States around the cape. A lot of South African (DENEL manufactured) weapons (such as a 32-canister VLS package of the Umkhonto point defense missile) is now offered with the standard A-200 weapons fit.

However the Algerians paid about Euro 2 Billion for their two A-200's (maybe the SAAB weapons fit was higher grade?)

First Algerian MEKO A-200 frigate undocked - IHS Jane's 360

@Penguin bhai what are your thoughts?

Bhai, if you see I said a scaled down MEKO A-200SAN, the South African Navy ships are @ 3700 tonnes....we don't need that large frigates considering the depth of the Bay of Bengal. What we need are light frigates with good sea keeping, @ 2500 - 2700 tonnes.

The Algerian A-200AN are structurally similar to the Valor class but have a very different systems fit. The $2.7bn contract quoted for the 2 ships are not quite right, first it includes 6 naval helicopters, second it also includes the construction of a whole new naval dockyard to be built in Algeria for the construction of further ships of class to be constructed in Algeria. Third from what we hear there was a lot of "over invoicing".

So what in the end should we buy, something like what i just talked about and the new MEKO CSL....

The other option we could go for are updated C-28A with VLS instead of a FM90 launcher.