Bangladesh Navy advertised to purchase two type 053H3 off the shelf frigate .

[The Ronin]

Does this increase the fleet strength from 6 to total 8 frigates?? Heard these are hot purchase and will arrive in 4 months. Did Myanmar also request for two off the shelve frigate from China?

 

[Michael Corleone]

Does this increase the fleet strength from 6 to total 8 frigates?? Heard these are hot purchase and will arrive in 4 months. Did Myanmar also request for two off the shelve frigate from China?

Yes and yes.... but I think Myanmar will be able to get only one now.

 

[Bilal9]

Can we have 16 units DK10A VLS on 053H3?

I am curious if you install a VLS upfront, the static and dynamic balancing of the ship might be affected by these VLS tubes during firing as well as due to weight distribution. Of course what do I know?

Here's a discussion of China modular CN VLS standardization (like Mk. 41 of USN). Even if we cannot put in this VLS in the 053H3, it seems to be an excellent candidate for our National Frigate program.

Chinese Navy VLS
Background:

The Chinese Navy Vertical Launch System (CN VLS) is a new type of universal, modular VLS capable of carrying and launching multiple types of missiles, similar to the US Navy’s Mk-41. However the CN VLS is also capable of launching missiles in a cold launch and hot launch method.

A modular VLS for the Chinese Navy has long been expected by the Chinese military watching community, however the first VLS type onboard a Chinese ship was a cold launched, space inefficient, circular VLS aboard the 052C destroyer first launched in 2004, and was only capable of firing the HHQ-9 LR SAM. The second VLS type was a hot launch VLS very similar in arrangement to the US Mk-41 and European SYLVER, which equipped the 054A class frigate and is capable of firing both HHQ-16 SAMs and VL ASROC type weapons. However neither of these two VLS was truly multirole like the Mk-41.

[caption id=”attachment_289" align=”aligncenter” width=”548"]

CN VLS aboard the 052D

A standard 8 cell module of the Mk-41 VLS

A pair of 8 cell modules of the SYLVER VLS


But by the late 2000s, credible rumours of a new 052D class destroyer began to emerge, with a consistent rumour being that the ship would be equipped with a new universal VLS to be the Chinese Navy’s new generation multirole VLS.

052D class was the first Chinese ship to use the new multirole CN VLS

This was confirmed in spectacular fashion in late 2012, when the first 052D was launched, revealing its VLS in clear detail. Furthermore, 052D’s launch was accompanied by the “leak” of a document for a Guojia Junyong Biaozhun (National Military Standard, similar to MIL-STD for western military forces), revealed many details of a new universal VLS that could only logically be attributed to the 052D’s new VLS.

GJB 5860–2006:
The GJB document provided a wealth of reliable information regarding the CN VLS’ dimensions and function.

-VLS canister diameter is 0.85m (which is larger than the US Navy’s new Mk-57 VLS, which only has a diameter of 0.71m, and further larger than the Mk-41 VLS, which has a diameter of 0.635m)

-VLS canisters come in three lengths, 9 meters, 7 meters, and 3.3 meters (which is similar to the strike length, tactical length and self defence length canisters for the Mk-41 VLS)

-The VLS is capable of quad-packing missiles, as well as firing surface to air missiles, cruise missiles, anti ship missiles, and anti submarine missiles

-The VLS is capable of cold launching missiles, whereby a missile is ejected (such as via compressed gas) out of its canister, and its engine only ignites once it is in the air well clear of the ship and the VLS.

-The VLS is capable of hot launching missiles, but each canister has its own “concentric” vent for missile exhausts. The CN VLS lacks a central vent that all eight VLS canisters are connected to (as in the Mk-41), but instead a vent is present (and likely removable) within each canister intended for hot launch.

A page of the GJB document which provided a substantial amount of information regarding the new VLS


Cold launch vs Hot launch:
Cold launch of missiles helps to reduce damage incurred to the VLS itself during the launch process. A cold launch method also removes a fundamental limitation to the size of a missile that can be launched, where a larger missile produces a larger fiery exhaust, but that exhaust must be safely vented through a hot launch method. A cold launch method removes the need for a vent as the missile only ignites when it is well clear of the ship, thus potentially allowing for much larger missiles to be safely launched.

However, cold launch may also present some additional mechanical risks, such as if a missile’s engine does not ignite after ejection, whereupon it would inevitably fall back down, potentially back onto the ship it was ejected from. The risk of this occurring is debatable however, as Russian, Chinese, and even some western missile systems are now fielding cold launch methods in a variety of highly demanding roles.

Another minor disadvantage of cold launch missiles is that they have slower engagement time compared to a hot launch missile whose engine directly ignites from inside the VLS.

Cold launch of an HHQ-9 from an 052C, note the missile’s engine only igniting in mid air after it has been ejected well clear of the ship

Hot launch from a Mk-41 VLS, note the central vent which helps to safely redirect the missile exhaust in a single “wall” in the middle of the VLS module

Hot launch VLS provides a missile with faster response time and more immediate kinetic energy from launch, thus potentially may be more useful for medium and short range SAMs where seconds are immensely important for intercepting an incoming missile. Hot launch VLS may also be more reliable than older cold launch VLS, as there is no risk for a missile failing to ignite in mid air and falling back down as in cold launch; if a missile fails to ignite in hot launch, it simply remains within the canister.

However, hot launch VLS are also heavier and more complicated and subjected to greater temperatures and potential damage, adding cost and reducing lifespan of the VLS module compared to a cold launch VLS.

Cutaway diagram indicating the standard set up of a hot launch VLS with central vent

By combining the potential for cold launch and hot launch in a single VLS, the CN VLS will provide greater flexibility and allow the Chinese Navy to more appropriately select differing launch methods for differing missiles in the most efficient way.

In terms of footprint, a standard eight cell CN VLS module is somewhat larger than an equivalent Mk-41 eight cell module, however, each canister of a CN VLS is also substantially larger than a canister of a Mk-41 canister, and that means a CN VLS could potentially carry and launch much larger missiles than a Mk-41. Indeed if the CN VLS was required to take advantage of its immense diameter, it could launch a missile via the cold launch method, which removes any need for internal concentric vents.
Ultimately all else being equal, a larger missile could translate into a greater payload, greater range, more powerful guidance and ECCM, among other important capabilities.

Loadouts:
The multirole nature of the CN VLS will allow it to carry a variety of potential current and future missiles, among a wide variety of categories.

Surface to Air Missiles: the long range HHQ-9 SAM and future variants will likely be the predominant LR SAM of the CN VLS (similar to the Standard family for the Mk-41 VLS); HHQ-16 may also be adapted to be fired from the CN VLS, however it is doubtful if future variants will be developed given the potential for quad packed medium range SAMs could replace it; quad packed SAMs such as a variant of the DK-10 SAM will likely be developed and integrated to become the Chinese Navy’s equivalent to the Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile.

The CN VLS is likely to field a quad packable SAM with medium range, such as a derivative of the DK-10

Anti Ship Missiles: the Chinese Navy currently fields a number of AShMs which could potentially be integrated into the new CN VLS, including new variants of the legacy YJ-82, or the YJ-62 which is similar to the Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile. However, at this stage the only AShM that is expected to be integrated with the CN VLS is the YJ-18 AShM, which is thought to be a Chinese equivalent to the Russian 3M-54 (a subsonic AShM in cruise phase with a supersonic terminal phase). Rumours have also suggested a possible “YJ-100” which would be an anti shipping variant of the CJ-10/DF-10 LACM and may thus have substantial powered range in excess of 1,500km, but doubts remain. The large diameter of the CN VLS means it may also accommodate future AShMs of large size, such as hypersonic AShMs.

A suspected test launch of a YJ-18 from test ship 891 equipped with the new CN VLS. Note the hot launch of the missile, but with exhaust being vented “around” the missile via its concentric vent arrangement, different to the central venting method of other hot launch VLS like Mk-41 and SYLVER

Land Attack Cruise Missiles: the CN VLS is expected to carry an LACM similar to the Tomahawk Land Attack Missile often launched from the Mk-41 VLS. The most likely contender within the immediate future is a vertically launched variant of the CJ-10/DF-10 LACM, which exists in air launched and ground launched variants. Future LACMs will likely also be integrated into the CN VLS as they are developed.

The CN VLS will likely be integrated with a vertically launched variant of the CJ-10/DF-10 land attack cruise missile

Anti Submarine Warfare Missiles: the CN VLS is expected to accommodate a vertically launched ASROC type weapon, a capability already present on the 054A’s VLS. It is likely that initially the CN VLS will be capable of launching the same type of VL ASROC as the 054A (possibly called Yu-8), but a larger diameter and heavier weapon may be developed to take advantage of the CN VLS’s larger diameter.

Ballistic Missile Defence and Anti Satellite Missiles: while the Chinese military has yet to receive any BMD or ASAT weapons in service, it has conducted a variety of tests and various missiles are known to be under development with BMD and potential low orbit ASAT roles, which may fit inside the dimensions of the CN VLS. However, it may take a number of years until such a weapon emerges, and more time after that for such a weapon to even be integrated into the CN VLS. But such a possibility should not be excluded.

Applications:
The first Chinese Navy ship to receive the CN VLS is the 052D class destroyer. It is expected that all new major surface combatant classes which follow the 052D will also be equipped with the CN VLS. The 055 class large destroyer will almost certainly carry the CN VLS, likely in large numbers between 112–128 cells. A successor frigate to the current 054A will also likely carry the CN VLS. Other ships such as aircraft carriers, amphibious assault ships, down to future corvettes, may also carry small numbers of CN VLS for self defense roles to supplement CIWS. Export frigate and destroyer designs offered by China will also likely include the CN VLS with export cleared munitions as well.

The CN VLS will equip many future Chinese surface combatants, such as the upcoming 055 class large destroyer

Existing ships with older launch systems and older VLS such as the 052B class, Sovremenny class, 052C class, 051C class and 054A class, may also potentially be refit with the CN VLS via upgrades, but whether the Chinese Navy decides to embark on an expensive upgrade is another matter. Needless to say, refitting such ships with a new, larger VLS would require some meaningful structural changes.

Overall, it is virtually assured that the CN VLS will become the Chinese Navy’s primary offensive missile launching tool, and will be as ubiquitous to the Chinese Navy in the foreseeable decades as the Mk-41 VLS has been and will be for the US Navy. Therefore a careful appreciation of the CN VLS is necessary for any serious watcher of the Chinese Navy.

 

[帅的一匹]

I mean China can customize a small frigate with displacement under 2000 tons with 16 packs of DK10A VLS.

 

[UKBengali]

I mean China can customize a small frigate with displacement under 2000 tons with 16 packs of DK10A VLS.

Bro, BD cannot really afford another new frigate in addition to the 6 4000+ tonne ones that it will start building either end of this year or early next year.

Even if the Type-053H3 comes with FM-90N SAM that would be good as it can engage 3 targets out to ranges of 15Km. These two would be good brothers for the single Ulsan class in BD Navy until the first of the 6 next-generation frigates start coming online from early next decade.

 

[帅的一匹]

Bro, BD cannot really afford another new frigate in addition to the 6 4000+ tonne ones that it will start building either end of this year or early next year.

Even if the Type-053H3 comes with FM-90N SAM that would be good as it can engage 3 targets out to ranges of 15Km. These two would be good brothers for the single Ulsan class in BD Navy until the first of the 6 next-generation frigates start coming online from early next decade.

Can you shed some lights on the 4000+ frigate project of BN?

 

[UKBengali]

Can you shed some lights on the 4000+ frigate project of BN?

No concrete information yet as the partner should be selected by June this year the last I heard.

It will either be based on a Chinese or EU design. I would think that a version of the upcoming Chinese Type-054B has the best chance as the European designs are likely to be too expensive for the budget(400 million dollar per ship) unless there is a drastic cut-down on sensors and weapons which BN would not like.

The one thing going for the EU option is that BN would like to lessen dependence on China but we shall soon find out.

 

[帅的一匹]

No concrete information yet as the partner should be selected by June this year the last I heard.

It will either be based on a Chinese or EU design. I would think that a version of the upcoming Chinese Type-054B has the best chance as the European designs are likely to be too expensive for the budget(400 million dollar per ship) unless there is a drastic cut-down on sensors and weapons which BN would not like.

The one thing going for the EU option is that BN would like to lessen dependence on China but we shall soon find out.

400 millions is the price for 054A....

 

[UKBengali]

400 millions is the price for 054A....

I thought it was 1 billion US dollars for 3 ships.

Anyway, the Chinese design is likely to be far more within the budget for BN. Hopefully we will soon find out the details.

 

[帅的一匹]

I thought it was 1 billion US dollars for 3 ships.

Anyway, the Chinese design is likely to be far more within the budget for BN. Hopefully we will soon find out the details.

If Chinese design has good capability with much competitive price, it's a good business we can expect.

 

[UKBengali]

If Chinese design has good capability with much competitive price, it's a good business we can expect.

In my opinion the Chinese Type-054B is likely to be the best in terms of firepower for the price. Think it has 32 VLS-cells that can take 200km-range HQ-9X, quad pack the new HQ-16X or DQ10A at the least, carry anti-ship/land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine rockets. Even if it cost 500 million US dollars, no EU ship would come close to this at the price.

The major stumbling block to China getting the contract is that the BD government would like to diversify on being too reliant on China after the Rohingya issue last year. Even if an EU design is chosen it will be so much more advanced and armed than anything that BN currently has in it's arsenal and so good days will be here soon for the BN.

 

[帅的一匹]

In my opinion the Chinese Type-054B is likely to be the best in terms of firepower for the price. Think it has 32 VLS-cells that can take 200km-range HQ-9X, quad pack the new HQ-16X or DQ10A at the least, carry anti-ship/land-attack cruise missiles and anti-submarine rockets. Even if it cost 500 million US dollars, no EU ship would come close to this at the price.

The major stumbling block to China getting the contract is that the BD government would like to diversify on being too reliant on China after the Rohingya issue last year. Even if an EU design is chosen it will be so much more advanced and armed than anything that BN currently has in it's arsenal and so good days will be here soon for the BN.

I think the rohingya issue won't be a stumbling block for Bi-lateral relationship as Sheikh Hasina said they are no Bengalis.

And She said BD will not provide refugees status to those Rohingyas.

 

[UKBengali]

I think the rohingya issue won't be a stumbling block for Bi-lateral relationship as Sheikh Hasina said they are no Bengalis.

Relations are still good but BD will diversify it's arms imports from China because of it.
BD will not want to be in a situation where it is at war with Myanmar and putting China in a difficult position as to whether it will resupply or not.

 

[帅的一匹]

Now they are returned to Myanmar. And

Many Chinese don't agree Myanmar goverment shall adopt iron fist on all Rohingya people just for few of them are against the goverment.

Relations are still good but BD will diversify it's arms imports from China because of it.
BD will not want to be in a situation where it is at war with Myanmar and putting China in a difficult position as to whether it will resupply or not.

Personally I prefer Bd than Myanmar.

Bangladeshis are more benevolent and sincere.

 

[UKBengali]

Personally I prefer Bd than Myanmar.

Bangladeshis are more benevolent and sincere.

No real had feelings from BD over Rohingya and the relationship between BD/China is still very strong and continue to do so into the future.

BD understands the big picture as China needs an outlet to the sea for OBOR. Wish someone can make the Barmans behave like human beings in the 21st Century - this sort of behaviour has no place in the modern world.