Bangladesh Air Force

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This is the first time I have heard that the Gripen C/D is anything more than a short-legged light fighter. It simply cannot deliver a heavy bomb-load to far away targets like SU-30. Using missiles for long-range attacks means you deliver less load to target. Anyway Gripen C/D cannot carry nearly as much weight as SU-30. Gripen can carry a maximum of 5.3T whereas SU-30 can have 8T.

If you are talking about Gripen E then the picture is better as that can carry 7T.
With a single 290 gallon external tank, the Gripen E has a combat radius of 1300km compared to 1500Km for SU-30SME which only needs internal fuel. Range is a big killer in favour of Su-30SME here.
Su-30SME has 12 hardpoints as opposed to 10 for Gripen E.

BD economy is strong enough that it can buy both aircraft now and this is the thinking in BAF.

The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.

Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.

Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.

but then i've heard the current yaks are also used in ground strike roles... had we gone with T-50... we would have needed new missiles, pods, rockets etc


US ridiculed bangladesh's request for f-16 20 years ago because they thought such an "advanced" jet is not appropriate for us... heck forget about those, they hadn't even agreed to selling us c-130s engines, which resulted in one airframe sitting ducks for decade... if sourcing a legacy technology (turboprop) is so difficult, how do you reckon we source something like a turbofan engine?

IMO...I doubt that. If you're in a good macro-economic position, then you should be able to enter the FMS process with the US with very little trouble. You should get your diplomats in the US to work harder.

But doesn't BAF have to buy a complete different European trainer if it selects Gripen? Beside the engine and weapon package is American. Don't think we will get the whole/half weapon even if we manage to get the fighter somehow. USA have been denying to give us fighter since 70s.



USA will give their latest trainer to us?! As LIFT? When we can't even think about Super Tucano or T-50?! No freaking way!! Besides cost will be higher in the beginning, don't think it will decrease even later like other American fighters. And weapon package is still an issue. Read somewhere Philippine didn't get the full weapon package with their T-50.




BAF probably have/had plan to induct more Su-30 and use some Yak-130 for ground attack to replace A-5. Don't forget those were procured under 1 billion Russian credit. And currently there's no better alternative than Russian fighter for maritime strike role.

We are already lagging behind in numbers and quality. You want us to delay more?



Cheap, cheaper than fighters. Don't you think we are in dire need of MRSAM and multi layer air defense? Cause SHORADS and MANPADS can't do shit actually against fighter or some missiles.



BAF have plans to induct AEW&C, hoping for C-295. But this is not the priority now.



BN could've gotten it with Korean corvette but the Chinese Type-56 won the tender because they offered ToT.



Such as?



Did Philippine choose Gripen yet?

Don't think Botswana still did either.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...ns-for-botswana&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107



Jeez!! Looks like you are all in for Swedish chocolate. RBS-15Mk3 anti-ship missile was never on our military's radar, don't think it ever will be. They will stuck around Otomat, Exocet, Chinese and Russian missile.

FAC is a no go as BoB is getting rougher day by day. We are building larger and better Durjoy class LPC with C-704 missile and torpedo. BN can later modify them with better armament with longer range. The ASW version will patrol with Type-56 to reduce the workload.

Getting S.Korean Chang Bogo isn't a bad idea. BN has plan operate 6 sub by 2030. if we can manage to get 3 from Chinese/Russian (Amur/S-20) and 3 from Western (Chang Bogo/Type-212/214) possibly with ToT then we won't have to fully rely on one of them. If i am not wrong Indonesia got 3 Chang Bogo with ToT.



What? Where did you get this?

Unless the Chinese are going to help you forge ship grade steel, then "ToT" is a stretch and just an excuse to ignore one bidder over the other. It's a common tactic and a lot of states, including Pakistan, have fallen for it time and time again.

Second, the Russian line-of-credit is a loan, you still have to pay it off, and now you're seeing an exit of money over 5-10 years due to that deal.

Third, IMO, a lot of the barriers you have to getting US/European weaponry is from your end. There is always a way when you have a good macro-economic position, so you need to leverage that more actively.

 

[Michael Corleone]

1996 is not the same as 2018.

In 1996, BD could not really afford to pay for 27 F-16s and the US was in a way doing BD a favour.
Now BD has a 300 US billion dollar economy growing at 8% a year. The Western media is now full of articles praising BD economy and it is no longer seen as the basket case like it was in the past

US is not even selling Gripen to BD but just not vetoing it. They have allowed the sale of Gripen to lots of other countries like S Africa that are not even considered US allies.

Anyway, no-one knows if the BAF are even actively considering the Gripen and so the whole speculation may all just be pointless.

yet it's still difficult to buy 8 jets with the current economy, pity

 

[Avicenna]

The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.

Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.

Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.

IMO...I doubt that. If you're in a good macro-economic position, then you should be able to enter the FMS process with the US with very little trouble. You should get your diplomats in the US to work harder.

Unless the Chinese are going to help you forge ship grade steel, then "ToT" is a stretch and just an excuse to ignore one bidder over the other. It's a common tactic and a lot of states, including Pakistan, have fallen for it time and time again.

Second, the Russian line-of-credit is a loan, you still have to pay it off, and now you're seeing an exit of money over 5-10 years due to that deal.

Third, IMO, a lot of the barriers you have to getting US/European weaponry is from your end. There is always a way when you have a good macro-economic position, so you need to leverage that more actively.

I think the main barrier is from the Bangladeshi side.

I have a rather low opinion of Bangladeshi decision makers from my observations of pettiness and short sightedness growing up and seeing my elders in "official" positions in various capacities. (immigrants in the NYC area)

Politics and personal agrandizement seem to top any actual good works.

I can imagine this to be the case on the national level.

Still its not too late.

Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.

Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think the main barrier is from the Bangladeshi side.

I have a rather low opinion of Bangladeshi decision makers from my observations of pettiness and short sightedness growing up and seeing my elders in "official" positions in various capacities.

Politics and personal agrandizement seem to top any actual good works.

I can imagine this to be the case on the national level.

Still its not too late.

Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.

Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?

They're the same class, they can make due with the Yak-130. My issue was getting 16(!) LIFT without a proper multi-role fighter to feed upwards.

I fully remember writing about the first bid for 8 a year or so ago. Sad nothing came of it, especially now that the Myanmar Air Force has a proper BVR+AShW element via the FC-1. I wouldn't be surprised if the MAF follows up with the GB6+ER, which seems to be a small ALCM.

36 Gripen C/D with Grifo-E would end it for them IMO.

 

[LKJ86]

The Gripen C/D has been certified to carry the KEPD 350 ALCM and the RBS-15Mk3. Those are two tier-one stand-off range weapons for deep-strike and anti-shipping.

Sure, the C/D's range is less, but that's why you rely on the ALCM/AShMs -- there's enough range there to keep your EEZ clear. The rest, e.g. payload capacity and hardpoints, is for BAF an issue on the margins, and focusing on it now will be a resource drain.

Besides, I don't know why you're even thinking about deep-strike. You'd need to build substantial OCA capabilities to undertake deep strike in enemy territory, and seeing how you yourself said BAF has a resource limit, how will it build it in short order? In the end, the Su-30SME itself will launch SOWs from within Bangladeshi territory, and at that point, you would have been better off with the Gripen C/D.

There was J-10A vs Thailand's Gripen C/D during China & Thailand airforce joint exercise in 2017 and 2018. Gripen C/D didn't perform well.

 

[ghost250]

Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.

https://www.facebook.com/

listen carefully from 1.35

 

[Avicenna]

https://www.facebook.com/

listen carefully from 1.35

I can't really make it out?

The most cost effective one?

 

[The Ronin]

Even with the Yak-130, I don't see why Bangaldesh can't buy the Gripen.

Is there that much of a difference between the Yak and the M346?

Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.

I fully remember writing about the first bid for 8 a year or so ago. Sad nothing came of it

It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019.

@shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.

 

[Avicenna]

Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.



It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019.

@shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.

Cost effective and cheap are two different things.

I don't know how he meant it but probably meant cheap.

 

[The Ronin]

Cost effective and cheap are two different things.

I don't know how he meant it but probably meant cheap.

Price and maintenance cost of J-10 and Jf-17 will definitely be cheaper than any other existing fighter.

 

[Avicenna]

Price and maintenance cost of J-10 and Jf-17 will definitely be cheaper than any other existing fighter.

Can you really go Chinese given the politics of the day?

Do you really think if BD and Myanmar goes hot, that the Chinese won't back Myanmar and cut off supplies to BD?

This is what I mean when I say I fear short sighted ness.

What the hell will Bangladesh do then?

 

[ghost250]

Read a post before that Yak's FBW similar to EFT and probably F-18 and 15 but don't think Gripen was there. If you check Gripen, M-346 and Yak-130's operator list none fly those two together.



It has only been one year or so. No need to be sad. Other countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar also took times for their fighter deal and other procurement. Hopefully we might hear something good at the first Q of 2019.

@shourov323 he said the most cost effective one. Didn't indicate anything specifically. In that case J-10 and JF-17 is most cost effective one available.

but both r single engine fighter..nd MRCA tender clearly mentioned about twin engine..

 

[LKJ86]

There was J-10A vs Thailand's Gripen C/D during China & Thailand airforce joint exercise in 2017 and 2018. Gripen C/D didn't perform well.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

BD’s ultimate policies - be it military, economy or something else - is taken by the folks who owe their bodies and souls to India. They have billions stacked outside in safe environs. Any indications of going anything south, they’re gone in a moment’s notice. The rest is all Fasa-Fiso..

Bottom-line: India takes BD’s ultimate defense decisions

 

[The Ronin]

but both r single engine fighter..nd MRCA tender clearly mentioned about twin engine..

Oh, yeah forgot that part. But everyone has been talking about Su-30 and Russian didn't even receive any of their Mig-35 yet. Could it be that they are making another G2G deal for single engine. "Most cost effective" doesn't actually go for Russian fighter.

Can you really go Chinese given the politics of the day?

Do you really think if BD and Myanmar goes hot, that the Chinese won't back Myanmar and cut off supplies to BD?

That's actually another question. The previous topic was about cost.

Besides China have strong position both in BD and Myanmar. They are still second biggest defense supplier of BD. I don't think they will choose any side in case war breaks out between us. They will try to stop both party. War is a serious matter. Nobody in govt of any country is stupid enough to launch a full scale war to risk their relation, business, economy and more life no matter how much some foolish, hotheaded netizens cry about it or dangle their military superiority around other country. Specially country like us with stable economy and development for few years. Every country prefer tackling things diplomatically or in other way over giving battle cry.

Another thing is we don't really know what actually goes on between these countries government. Don't what might happen in future project or business but doesn't look like our relation with India, China, Russia and Myanmar has become that bad.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/busine...-trade-remains-healthy-amidst-rohingya-crisis