Bad Fences, Bad Neighbors
- Thread starter A.Rahman
- Start date
Pakistani media warns against Indian ‘hegemony in Afghanistan’ Published: Wednesday, 3 May, 2006, 11:35 AM Doha Time
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani media yesterday condemned the abduction and killing of Indian engineer K Suryanarayana in Afghanistan, but also warned that New Delhi’s “hegemonistic presence” was unwanted in that country.
Pakistani editorials cautioned India against getting embroiled in the “great game” in the region and said it should be ready to pay a heavy price if it did.
Pakistani newspapers also scoffed at Indian insinuations that Pakistan, its intelligence agency ISI and its support to the Taliban were responsible for what has been happening to Indians and workers of other nationalities engaged in Afghanistan’s reconstruction.
Linking the kidnapping and killing to similar incidents in Iraq, the Pakistan Observer said: “Kidnappings and killing of abducted persons, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere in the world, are condemnable.
“The most distressing aspect of such incidents is that innocent people, who are not directly or indirectly linked to the occupation forces, are targeted causing miseries to their families.”
The editorial went on to say that it seemed “an expression of protest or indignation over increasing Indian hegemonistic presence” in Afghanistan.
“The way the Indians are strengthening their hold in every field of Afghan life is being resented by the Afghan people. Certain elements in Northern Alliance government are playing host to the Indians supporting their efforts to advance their interests in Afghanistan and this is not liked by majority of Afghans who abhor foreign influence in their country,” the Observer stated.
“The presence and activities of the Indians in Afghanistan are not only considered as interference but also anti-Taliban and hence this kind of reaction,” it said.
Repeating Islamabad’s accusation, the editorial said Indian consulates in Afghanistan were engaged in “blatant interference in neighbouring countries” and that they were carrying out “anti-Pakistan activities”.
More such incidents were feared as President Hamid Karzai was “allowing his country to be used as a base to destabilise Pakistani areas”, the paper warned.
An editorial in The News said Afghanistan had become the playground for “everyone” and this was being resented by the Afghans, particularly the Taliban.
“Though no reporting has been done as to why they are so adamant in forcing the Indians’ ouster, tongues are wagging about a new strategic great game being played out in the Afghan territory, with everyone from the US to China and regional heavyweights like India, Pakistan and Iran falling upon each other’s heels to have their fingers in the Afghan pie,” the newspaper said.
“Given the muddle that makes up today’s Afghanistan, it’s important to know who opposes who and who is backed by whom. For the Taliban, it’s almost natural to oppose India which in turn is supported by most people in the current administration in Kabul.
“No matter which side one takes, outsiders grinding their axes in a sovereign state’s soil are as worrisome as the grisly act of beheading foreign workers,” the editorial said. – Agencies
Pakistani editorials cautioned India against getting embroiled in the “great game” in the region and said it should be ready to pay a heavy price if it did.
Pakistani newspapers also scoffed at Indian insinuations that Pakistan, its intelligence agency ISI and its support to the Taliban were responsible for what has been happening to Indians and workers of other nationalities engaged in Afghanistan’s reconstruction.
Linking the kidnapping and killing to similar incidents in Iraq, the Pakistan Observer said: “Kidnappings and killing of abducted persons, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere in the world, are condemnable.
“The most distressing aspect of such incidents is that innocent people, who are not directly or indirectly linked to the occupation forces, are targeted causing miseries to their families.”
The editorial went on to say that it seemed “an expression of protest or indignation over increasing Indian hegemonistic presence” in Afghanistan.
“The way the Indians are strengthening their hold in every field of Afghan life is being resented by the Afghan people. Certain elements in Northern Alliance government are playing host to the Indians supporting their efforts to advance their interests in Afghanistan and this is not liked by majority of Afghans who abhor foreign influence in their country,” the Observer stated.
“The presence and activities of the Indians in Afghanistan are not only considered as interference but also anti-Taliban and hence this kind of reaction,” it said.
Repeating Islamabad’s accusation, the editorial said Indian consulates in Afghanistan were engaged in “blatant interference in neighbouring countries” and that they were carrying out “anti-Pakistan activities”.
More such incidents were feared as President Hamid Karzai was “allowing his country to be used as a base to destabilise Pakistani areas”, the paper warned.
An editorial in The News said Afghanistan had become the playground for “everyone” and this was being resented by the Afghans, particularly the Taliban.
“Though no reporting has been done as to why they are so adamant in forcing the Indians’ ouster, tongues are wagging about a new strategic great game being played out in the Afghan territory, with everyone from the US to China and regional heavyweights like India, Pakistan and Iran falling upon each other’s heels to have their fingers in the Afghan pie,” the newspaper said.
“Given the muddle that makes up today’s Afghanistan, it’s important to know who opposes who and who is backed by whom. For the Taliban, it’s almost natural to oppose India which in turn is supported by most people in the current administration in Kabul.
“No matter which side one takes, outsiders grinding their axes in a sovereign state’s soil are as worrisome as the grisly act of beheading foreign workers,” the editorial said. – Agencies
Ahsan_R said:
Afghans could smuggle this things coz they have buyers on the other side who buys/trade these things.
When you point one finger to somone, your own three fingers are towards you.
Many of the border areas of Pak-Afghan border have their own Jirga's and having a Ak-47 is common.
Pakistan Army is already engaged in Waziristan and other border parts.
Other than these uncle's forces are doing regular 'is paar' and 'us paar' in search of their old mujahid friends.
How you gonna fence it?
Miro
Lilo
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i dont think building a fence is such a good idea.The people living in waziristan are no different form the people living on the afghan side. They marry into each other and think of each other as brothers.If GoP tries to restrict their movements by building fences or laying landmines, they will turn more hostile and noting else.
A better idea for the present situation in waziristan would be to select a tribal warlord who is against the idea of foreign terrorists operating from their soil, potray him as "the" leader of the pasthun people,who is bent upon eliminating all sorts of foreign presence be it american, alqaida, GoP or afghani govt.He should be explicitly supported by pakistani and afghani govts with military and finacial aid and tacitly by US forces by intelligence and covert ops.They should set a dead line to him to eliminate the foreign terrorist presence in the region and let him do the work himself or with support from Pakistani,afghani and US covert military ops.
Later the afghan govt should also amend its constitution granting some autonomous powers to the region on its side of the border as on the pakistani side.And later the tribes should be tacitly made to leave their Drug culture and Gun cultures.And then elected democratic representatives from both sides should represent their regions in their repective parliaments.
Hence the strategy would be
Eliminate foreign terrorists.
.
.
Eliminate local elements which foment terrorism and take part directly in acts of terrorism.
.
.
.
Make the local population leave their Drug and Gun cultures.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Transform the tribal system of governance into a democratic one.
.
.
.
Etc etc.
Every person in waziristan carrying an AK on his shoulder is not a terrorist.
Its just in their nature ,its the way they have lived for hundreds of years wearing their weapons on them and displaying them prominently.and they carry these weapons for self protection and to protect their tribes.And a significant % of them have nothing to do with direct terrorist acts (like killing innocent people in foreign countries which are no way related to them.. etc ).
Leave karzai, at least mushraff should stop towing the american line and mounting meaning less attaks on the local population on their bidding.Most of the fighters in present waziristan are motivated by their urge to drive the 'invaders' out of their lands and only some are motivated by their duty
to protect their 'guests'(AKA foreign terrorists).Use this.Americans are outsiders,they dont care much about the long term consequences of this conflict they stirred up.Bush jus wants to capture Osama and others before his next election to gain some political milage among the US population.So he is presurrising mushraff and karzai to mount attaks on the region.Forget him.Mushraff should speak up to(and if required speak against..) the americans , explain to them the plan ..convince them to cooperate from the afghan side.
Of course to implement this it requires tremendous amount of vision,political dexterity and patience from the three parties involved (Gop,GoA,US).But its better than the current policy of towing the american line and mounting kneejerk military strikes.
Think about it my dear pakistani friends...the waziris are ur fellow pakistani citizens after all... and they will fight till the last man for the thing they treasure the most -'their freedom'.There is no point in alienating them further.
U may feel its too difficult to implement this...
But remember, Whatever might be the difficulty a just cause is worth fighting for.
Mod Edit: Before parting advice to Pakistanis on how to treat their fellow countrymen; why not advise your own leaders/security forces on how to treat Kashmiris on your side of the LoC (whose homeland is described as "Bharat's atoot ang" by those leaders, making them your countrymen)
Moral of this little story? DON'T PREACH!
A better idea for the present situation in waziristan would be to select a tribal warlord who is against the idea of foreign terrorists operating from their soil, potray him as "the" leader of the pasthun people,who is bent upon eliminating all sorts of foreign presence be it american, alqaida, GoP or afghani govt.He should be explicitly supported by pakistani and afghani govts with military and finacial aid and tacitly by US forces by intelligence and covert ops.They should set a dead line to him to eliminate the foreign terrorist presence in the region and let him do the work himself or with support from Pakistani,afghani and US covert military ops.
Later the afghan govt should also amend its constitution granting some autonomous powers to the region on its side of the border as on the pakistani side.And later the tribes should be tacitly made to leave their Drug culture and Gun cultures.And then elected democratic representatives from both sides should represent their regions in their repective parliaments.
Hence the strategy would be
Eliminate foreign terrorists.
.
.
Eliminate local elements which foment terrorism and take part directly in acts of terrorism.
.
.
.
Make the local population leave their Drug and Gun cultures.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Transform the tribal system of governance into a democratic one.
.
.
.
Etc etc.
Every person in waziristan carrying an AK on his shoulder is not a terrorist.
Its just in their nature ,its the way they have lived for hundreds of years wearing their weapons on them and displaying them prominently.and they carry these weapons for self protection and to protect their tribes.And a significant % of them have nothing to do with direct terrorist acts (like killing innocent people in foreign countries which are no way related to them.. etc ).
Leave karzai, at least mushraff should stop towing the american line and mounting meaning less attaks on the local population on their bidding.Most of the fighters in present waziristan are motivated by their urge to drive the 'invaders' out of their lands and only some are motivated by their duty
to protect their 'guests'(AKA foreign terrorists).Use this.Americans are outsiders,they dont care much about the long term consequences of this conflict they stirred up.Bush jus wants to capture Osama and others before his next election to gain some political milage among the US population.So he is presurrising mushraff and karzai to mount attaks on the region.Forget him.Mushraff should speak up to(and if required speak against..) the americans , explain to them the plan ..convince them to cooperate from the afghan side.
Of course to implement this it requires tremendous amount of vision,political dexterity and patience from the three parties involved (Gop,GoA,US).But its better than the current policy of towing the american line and mounting kneejerk military strikes.
Think about it my dear pakistani friends...the waziris are ur fellow pakistani citizens after all... and they will fight till the last man for the thing they treasure the most -'their freedom'.There is no point in alienating them further.
U may feel its too difficult to implement this...
But remember, Whatever might be the difficulty a just cause is worth fighting for.
Mod Edit: Before parting advice to Pakistanis on how to treat their fellow countrymen; why not advise your own leaders/security forces on how to treat Kashmiris on your side of the LoC (whose homeland is described as "Bharat's atoot ang" by those leaders, making them your countrymen)
Moral of this little story? DON'T PREACH!
Tiki Tam Tam
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A fencing is merely an impediment and nothing more.
A determined "crosser' will circumvent the fence by either cutting through the same or by using expedients that can be used to cross the fence.
To ensure that such an eventuality does not come to pass, IR beams and patrolling will have be organised.
It is not feasible to undertake extensive patrolling or keep of every inch of ground under observation owing to the terrain configuration, the foliage/ rocky outcrops etc.
Therefore, a fence cannot totally ensure that there shall be no inflitration/ exfiltration. Its value is as good as the situation can be made best.
A determined "crosser' will circumvent the fence by either cutting through the same or by using expedients that can be used to cross the fence.
To ensure that such an eventuality does not come to pass, IR beams and patrolling will have be organised.
It is not feasible to undertake extensive patrolling or keep of every inch of ground under observation owing to the terrain configuration, the foliage/ rocky outcrops etc.
Therefore, a fence cannot totally ensure that there shall be no inflitration/ exfiltration. Its value is as good as the situation can be made best.
Tiki Tam Tam
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Ground sensors unless multifunctional pick up clutter and thus has its drawbacks.
Apart from that animals, branches falling etc adds to the problems. To organise a multi functional senors i.e. video and acoustic (very basic), it very expensive. When troops start responding to such false alarm, it is natural that the enthusiasm would not be optimal in difficult terrain and would soon relegate itself to the routine. Thus, inlfitrators/ exfiltrators would be able to enter to some degree depending on the troops resp[onse to alarms.
Therefore, one has to realise the cost and hence these can be used for senlective areas unless one has the finances to support the surveillance internetting.
Apart from that animals, branches falling etc adds to the problems. To organise a multi functional senors i.e. video and acoustic (very basic), it very expensive. When troops start responding to such false alarm, it is natural that the enthusiasm would not be optimal in difficult terrain and would soon relegate itself to the routine. Thus, inlfitrators/ exfiltrators would be able to enter to some degree depending on the troops resp[onse to alarms.
Therefore, one has to realise the cost and hence these can be used for senlective areas unless one has the finances to support the surveillance internetting.
Spring Onion
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Fencing may not be that affective as far as its permenency is concerned as we had seen in the case of fencing LoC by India as it had cots them alot but the October 8 earthquake destroyed.
Now as the Afghans r accusing us of not doing much just to hide their own icompetency and the US commanders there who had failed to controlled the situtaion the only way is to fence it at any cost rather spread landmines. Some peopel might be against landmines but after doing alot in this war on terrorism its the last option to do that atleast at Pak-Afghan border.
Now as the Afghans r accusing us of not doing much just to hide their own icompetency and the US commanders there who had failed to controlled the situtaion the only way is to fence it at any cost rather spread landmines. Some peopel might be against landmines but after doing alot in this war on terrorism its the last option to do that atleast at Pak-Afghan border.
Tiki Tam Tam
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Jana said:
One must understand mines.
There are no panacea.
It is very difficult to mine hilly and rocky terrain, though not impossible. Mines drift after rains as the soil becomes soft. In dry season, the grass catches fire or is deliberately put on fire by those interested in deactivating the mines and these mines then blow. Animals walk over the mines and they blow and mines can be detected and deactivated at night!
Yet, those who have mined are aware of the mines and therefore are cautious in their chase of infiltrators.
It is a double edged weapon!
Mansoor A Qureshi
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Hellooooooo Everyone,
Finllay i am in heaven although i dont have that much knowledge of advance weaponry but i am glad to be here, i was always searching for something like this talking about the forum where i can know more and find some fellow countrymen and brothers to share the thoughts, i am currently working in Kabul/Afghanistan basically from Peshawar working here as a IT Support in a local NGO, Reason for posting reply here is that i want to express myself............
The way afghan media is projecting Pakistan and Pakistanis it is never easy for us working and living here,
TV, Radios all the time they are trying to cause problems for Pakistan and Pakistanis. They have banned the Pakistani channel on all the cable networks only AVT is allowed just due to their Pro Afghan policy.
But Pakistani govt and administration never banned the transmition in Pakistan, i have seen all the afghani channels that are free to air in all the cable networks....
These afghans will always be Opposing us and our foriegn policy was never in place to face the changing world. as far as i am concern it is the need of the time that all afghans must be registered and sent within 3 years back to afg and their must be a proper check on the boundry to restrict the movment on the borders and inside our beloved country
Will update you more on this........
Till then feeamanALLAH, Pakistan zinda baad and May ALLAH keep mercy on our country and make it more strong AMIN
Warm Regards
Mansoor Ahmed from unfriendly Kabul
Finllay i am in heaven although i dont have that much knowledge of advance weaponry but i am glad to be here, i was always searching for something like this talking about the forum where i can know more and find some fellow countrymen and brothers to share the thoughts, i am currently working in Kabul/Afghanistan basically from Peshawar working here as a IT Support in a local NGO, Reason for posting reply here is that i want to express myself............
The way afghan media is projecting Pakistan and Pakistanis it is never easy for us working and living here,
TV, Radios all the time they are trying to cause problems for Pakistan and Pakistanis. They have banned the Pakistani channel on all the cable networks only AVT is allowed just due to their Pro Afghan policy.
But Pakistani govt and administration never banned the transmition in Pakistan, i have seen all the afghani channels that are free to air in all the cable networks....
These afghans will always be Opposing us and our foriegn policy was never in place to face the changing world. as far as i am concern it is the need of the time that all afghans must be registered and sent within 3 years back to afg and their must be a proper check on the boundry to restrict the movment on the borders and inside our beloved country
Will update you more on this........
Till then feeamanALLAH, Pakistan zinda baad and May ALLAH keep mercy on our country and make it more strong AMIN
Warm Regards
Mansoor Ahmed from unfriendly Kabul
Spring Onion
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mansoor_aq said:
Welcome to PFF
Mansoor u r right unfortunatly some hostile forces (read ie Active against Pakistan all the time) out there are flaming all this.
Although souring relation between Afghnistan and Pakistan are harmful for both the nations but its disappointing that Afghan leader is blindly following vested elements coupled with his nerviousness in view of his weak control over the country's affair is hurrling accusations against us.
Its time for our polciy makers and think tanks to take this seriously and plan accordingly at long term basis to come on front foot instead of playing at back foot.
Welcome aboard!mansoor_aq said:
Let Karzai first take controll of his country and stop being a poppet of his US masters. Its very easy to blame others for your own failures.
There are 80.000 Pak forces controlling our border, the mighty US is at the other side alltogether with NATO.
Still they haven't been able to eliminate taliban from the South. What does it say about Karzai and Kabul government??
Is he the right person on the right place?
Maybe we should start deporting 2+ million afghans back to Kabul.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pak to begin registration of Afghans [/FONT]Friday, June 09,2006
[SIZE=-1]KARACHI: The National Database Registration Authority (NADRA) and United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) officials said on Thursday that mandatory registration of Afghan citizens, living in Pakistan will commence on October and completed in eight to 10 weeks.
A comprehensive mass awareness campaign will be launched to apprise targeted people of benefits of registration, a seminar on ââ¬Åencouraging and assisting Afghan refugees' repatriation,ââ¬Â organized by the Pakistan Press Foundation at its Vicky Zeitlin Media Library was told by Assistant Representative of UNHCR in Pakistan Indirka Ratwatte, Senior Public Information Officer UNHCR Islamabad, Ms Vivian Tan and Director General NADRA Sindh Brig. Abid Haider Kazmi.
Indirka said Afghan refugees' repatriation was not a cause of concern only for Pakistan but for whole international community as several factors add to complexity of the situation, including lack of identification and registration of Afghan citizens in Pakistan.He said in addition to repatriation of Afghans to their war-ravaged and poverty-stricken motherland, managing free movement of Afghans through Torkham and Chaman border crossings besides several border places on 2,400 km long porous border was another major problem facing local authorities and the UNHCR.
ââ¬ÅAfghans are coming to areas now in Pakistan for centuries as they have relations here and speak same language. The practice of coming in and out of Pakistan is still continuing. Managing free movement of Afghans on the border is one of major challenges for Pakistan, Afghanistan, UNHCR and international communityââ¬Â he added.
He said owing due to lack of land and shelter, no means of earning livelihood, poverty, destabilization and absence of infrastructure, Afghan refugees were unwilling to return to their motherland. Those repatriated return to Pakistan due to same reasons.He said UNHCR was advocating enhanced international investment in infrastructure development in Agfhanistan, land allocation for repatriates besides a workable solution to manage their movement across border. International community must ensure that repatriation is sustainable.
ââ¬ÅUNHCR has evolved a workable solution on registering Afghan citizens in Pakistan for which it will provide assistance. Those not registering after process is over, would be treated as illegal immigrants,ââ¬Â he informed.
UNHCR, in collaboration with the Afghan government, is working on land allocation to repatriates and infrastructure development in war-ravaged country as a majority of refugees were willing to return to their homeland voluntarily.
He said efforts were underway for de-mining in Afghanistan by international agencies and vast area had been de-mined. It was no more obstacle in repatriation of refugees.
Director General NADRA Sindh Brig. Abid Haider Kazmi said NADRA will start registration of over 3 million Afghans in Pakistan from October next. Process will take eight to 10 weeks. After registration, issue of those returning after repatriation to Afghanistan would be controlled. Some 88 NADRA centres and 18 mobile teams will register Afghans in the country.
He said every Afghan of five years age would be issued plastic card with biomatric properties as proof of registration for three years.
UNHCR Senior Public Information Officer in Islamabad Ms Vivian Tan said pull factor and improvement in situation in Afghanistan will help over 3.04 million expatriates. A lot more had to be done by international community for repatriation of all refugees to their motherland.
ââ¬ÅWe offer assistance to refugees willing to return. UNHCR will improve assistance package to encourage repatriation. Not all Afghans living in Pakistan were refugees.''
Editor Pakistan Press International (PPI) News Agency Farooq Moin, who was moderator of seminar, spoke of the influx of Afghan refugees in Pakistan after former USSR invasion of Afghanistan in late 1979, and issues concerning their repatriation.
[/SIZE]http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_story.cfm?id=300584&category=Frontend&Country=MAIN
[SIZE=-1]KARACHI: The National Database Registration Authority (NADRA) and United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) officials said on Thursday that mandatory registration of Afghan citizens, living in Pakistan will commence on October and completed in eight to 10 weeks.
A comprehensive mass awareness campaign will be launched to apprise targeted people of benefits of registration, a seminar on ââ¬Åencouraging and assisting Afghan refugees' repatriation,ââ¬Â organized by the Pakistan Press Foundation at its Vicky Zeitlin Media Library was told by Assistant Representative of UNHCR in Pakistan Indirka Ratwatte, Senior Public Information Officer UNHCR Islamabad, Ms Vivian Tan and Director General NADRA Sindh Brig. Abid Haider Kazmi.
Indirka said Afghan refugees' repatriation was not a cause of concern only for Pakistan but for whole international community as several factors add to complexity of the situation, including lack of identification and registration of Afghan citizens in Pakistan.He said in addition to repatriation of Afghans to their war-ravaged and poverty-stricken motherland, managing free movement of Afghans through Torkham and Chaman border crossings besides several border places on 2,400 km long porous border was another major problem facing local authorities and the UNHCR.
ââ¬ÅAfghans are coming to areas now in Pakistan for centuries as they have relations here and speak same language. The practice of coming in and out of Pakistan is still continuing. Managing free movement of Afghans on the border is one of major challenges for Pakistan, Afghanistan, UNHCR and international communityââ¬Â he added.
He said owing due to lack of land and shelter, no means of earning livelihood, poverty, destabilization and absence of infrastructure, Afghan refugees were unwilling to return to their motherland. Those repatriated return to Pakistan due to same reasons.He said UNHCR was advocating enhanced international investment in infrastructure development in Agfhanistan, land allocation for repatriates besides a workable solution to manage their movement across border. International community must ensure that repatriation is sustainable.
ââ¬ÅUNHCR has evolved a workable solution on registering Afghan citizens in Pakistan for which it will provide assistance. Those not registering after process is over, would be treated as illegal immigrants,ââ¬Â he informed.
UNHCR, in collaboration with the Afghan government, is working on land allocation to repatriates and infrastructure development in war-ravaged country as a majority of refugees were willing to return to their homeland voluntarily.
He said efforts were underway for de-mining in Afghanistan by international agencies and vast area had been de-mined. It was no more obstacle in repatriation of refugees.
Director General NADRA Sindh Brig. Abid Haider Kazmi said NADRA will start registration of over 3 million Afghans in Pakistan from October next. Process will take eight to 10 weeks. After registration, issue of those returning after repatriation to Afghanistan would be controlled. Some 88 NADRA centres and 18 mobile teams will register Afghans in the country.
He said every Afghan of five years age would be issued plastic card with biomatric properties as proof of registration for three years.
UNHCR Senior Public Information Officer in Islamabad Ms Vivian Tan said pull factor and improvement in situation in Afghanistan will help over 3.04 million expatriates. A lot more had to be done by international community for repatriation of all refugees to their motherland.
ââ¬ÅWe offer assistance to refugees willing to return. UNHCR will improve assistance package to encourage repatriation. Not all Afghans living in Pakistan were refugees.''
Editor Pakistan Press International (PPI) News Agency Farooq Moin, who was moderator of seminar, spoke of the influx of Afghan refugees in Pakistan after former USSR invasion of Afghanistan in late 1979, and issues concerning their repatriation.
[/SIZE]http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_story.cfm?id=300584&category=Frontend&Country=MAIN
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