Azerbaijan-Turkey to hold joint military exercise

[mehmeTcc]

Tell me, superior Turks, what else do you guys have brought to Holland and Germany, besides your Kebab, vegetables and fruit?

I'm bored to own you Surenas.

 

[TuranKhan]

Understand the obvious. I mean to say Turkey can trade with US and Europe.

And you don't have to invest heavily in defense because you are part of NATO. This directly affects your economy. Hope you understand it.

As for ethics and all, a country which has shown such growth in Space, scientific publications, defense industry etc., they have proved their worth through hard work and resilience.

And they didn't bow down to US pressure, this shows pride.

If you want to argue, argue with rational, not same old rhetoric.

If you talk about pride i surely wouldn't because in pride and honour you would rank the lowest. (no offense historical facts)

 

[KRAIT]

If you talk about pride i surely wouldn't because in pride and honour you would rank the lowest. (no offense historical facts)

Cherry picking ehhh?

Seems like you don't have any answer to rest of the post, like Trade with all countries, NATO protection etc.

 

[Surenas]

I'm bored to own you Surenas.

Wait, let me inform you:

We are on a natural road to becoming dumber on average," said Sarrazin. Immigrants from Turkey, the Middle East and Africa showed "less education than immigrants from other countries, lectured the Bundesbank board member from Berlin, and referred to the statistics.

Immigrants are having more children than Germans. There is "a differential growth of population groups with different intelligence," said Sarrazin. Intelligence is passed on by parents to children, and the heritability of intelligence lies at almost 80 percent.

Bundesbank-Vorstand : Sarrazin warnt vor Verdummung durch Einwanderer - Nachrichten Politik - Deutschland - DIE WELT

Sarrazin, German politician:

A great number of Arabs and Turks in our city, whose numbers have increased due to erroneous policies, have no economic function aside from selling fruit and vegetables, and who have little prospect of further development.

Turks Poorly Integrated

But immigrants from Turkey, the second biggest immigrant group in Germany making up almost 3 million people, are very poorly integrated. They come last in the Berlin Institute's integration ranking and the difference between them and the Germans is greatest -- they are worse educated, worse paid and have a higher rate of unemployment. And it doesn't make much difference how long they've been living in Germany.

If your name is Ümit rather than Hans or Gülcan rather than Grete, you're less likely to climb the career ladder. Some 30 percent of Turkish immigrants and their children don't have a school leaving certificate, and only 14 percent do their Abitur, as the degree from Germany's top-level high schools is called -- that's half the average of the German population.

And because immigrants tend to have more children than the Germans, the problem is likely to get worse in the future. Today a third of all children born in Germany are born to immigrant families.

But why do foreigners remain foreign in so many cases, and why are Turks finding it hard to integrate themselves, even the ones born in Germany?

There are two sides to integration. In the ideal case there's a majority that welcomes the immigrants and the minority that wants to become part of its new homeland.

But many Turks who came to Germany as guest workers decades ago didn't want to become part of German society, they wanted to earn money there and return home after a few years. That didn't happen, though. The Turks stayed on, but it seems that their original attitude hasn't changed. They formed ghettos and didn't establish much contact with Germans, and all that made it harder for their children to find a place in German society.

According to one recent survey, two-thirds of immigrant children still can't read adequately at the end of their fourth year in school. The situation is especially bad in big cities with high proportions of immigrants such as Berlin, Hamburg and Bremen.

And the majority? What have the Germans done wrong regarding the integration of Turks?

"We invited the guest workers and thought they would leave again soon," said Reiner Klingholz, the head of the Berlin Institute. But education is the main factor, and language is the key, he says. "For too long we were used to the fact that we have primary school classes where 80 percent of children can't speak German," says Klingholz.

Recent international surveys have shown that children from families with a poor educational background and weak language skills have particularly bad prospects in the German school system. "For 30, 40 years the Turks weren't offered enough" in terms of education, says Yasemin Karakasoglu, who researches immigration trends at Bremen University. But the government has started taking action since 2000, changing immigration law and conducting regular meetings with immigrant groups.

There's even some movement on a key demand by immigrants from outside the European Union -- dual citizenship. While EU citizens and Swiss people living in Germany have no trouble obtaining two passports, it's far harder for the children of immigrants from outside the EU. They have to decide between the ages of 18 and 23 which nationality they want to keep.

The chairman of the Turkish Community in Germany, Kenan Kolat, says Turkish immigrants should have the option of permanent dual citizenship. "If Turks in the second generation had the right to have dual citizenship, that would definitely promote their integration," says Kolat. "They wouldn't be forced to decide for or against Germany."

Turks Need to Make More Effort, Says Analyst

Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble responds by saying: "Integration also requires people to take a decision. They have to want to integrate themselves." Turks born in Germany could become German if they so desire, says Schäuble.

But there are many factors affecting such a desire. Xenophobia, for example. A survey by the Allensbach polling institute found that more than 50 percent of Germans still think the country has too many immigrants. On the other hand, though, it is tempting to wonder how much of such an attitude results from the Turkish tendency to congregate in insular neighborhoods in Germany's big cities.

Reiner Klingholz says immigrants and their children should be expected to make more effort to get an education and to speak German as well as to accept Germany's legal order and cultural norms. "We can no longer accept that someone refuses to take part in sports lessons on religious grounds," he says.

A study by the Essen Center for Turkish studies in 2006 found that 83 percent of Muslims of Turkish-origins described themselves as religious or strictly religious. "Religiousness has increased," the authors of the study wrote.

Is Muslim Faith a Hindrance to Integration?

What does that mean for integration? Does Islam, the faith of most of the Turks living in Germany, prevent immigrants from finding their way into German society?

Author Serap Cileli, herself the victim of a forced marriage, says: "Faith plays a major role in the failed integration of Turks." For more than 10 years she has been helping Muslim women who have become victims of domestic violence. "Every day I see the suffering of Muslim girls and women who never get a chance in their conservative Muslim world to take part in German life," she says.

A study commissioned by the German Families Ministry in 2004 showed that a disproportionate rate of Turkish women in Germany suffer from domestic violence. Arranged marriages are another factor. A quarter of Turkish women who responded to the survey said they had only met their husband at their wedding, and 9 percent they had been forced into marriage.

Critics of Islam see the religion as the source of the problem because it underscores patriarchal structures in which the men can derive from the Koran the right to dominate their wives. And the women in turn see themselves committed by the Koran to tolerate their suffering.

Bassam Tibi, co-founder of the Arabian Organization for Human Rights, says it's impossible for Muslim immigrants ever to truly integrate under these conditions. "No democracy can allow the inferiorization of women," he says.

But Ursula Günther, a lecturer on religion at the University of Hamburg, warns against clichés. "The broad majority of Germans has the false impression that all Turks are orthodox Muslims," she says. Most religious Turks, though, don't listen to fundamentalist imams.

Gradual Change

In fact, Germany's Turkish community is quite pluralistic. Some are in favor of women wearing headscarves. Some are against it, some wouldn't contemplate marrying a German, others don't have a problem with bi-cultural relationships.

Reiner Klingholz says it's impossible to measure the impact of Islam on integration, but he doesn't think it's a lasting hindrance. "50 years ago in Germany no one could have imagined that Catholics could marry Protestants, but these days no one talks about it any more," he says.

Slowly, very slowly, things are changing. The percentage of Turkish girls in Gymnasium -- the highest form of secondary school in Germany's three-tier high-school system -- is increasing and now exceeds the percentage of Turkish boys. Education standards of second-generation Turkish immigrants also increasing, at least compared with that of their parents.

And Turkish immigrants increasingly regard Germany as their country. "As recently as the 1990s, two-thirds of Turks wanted to return at some point," says immigrant researcher Yasemin Karakasoglu at Bremen University. "But this attitude has changed: More and more Turks really want to stay here forever."

Immigration: Survey Shows Alarming Lack of Integration in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[atatwolf]

^
Surenas with his racist studies again

I was not mistaken when I said IRanians on this forum are admirers of Hitler's ideology. They think they are the master race.

 

[mehmeTcc]

Lol. First you tried to say that Turks didn't found any cities. I came with the cities founded by Turks.
Then you said, Turks didn't build any goddamn monuments in their ancient homeland, Mongolia. I came with the monuments.
Again, you said, Turks didn't contribute anything to the countries they have migrated to. I came with their contributions.

And over and over again, you tried to manipulate the examples I gave. Extreme trolling has no limits.

 

[TuranKhan]

Tell me, superior Turks, what else do you guys have brought to Holland and Germany, besides your Kebab, vegetables and fruit?

That's the funniest and most stupid statement I have seen in my life.

Could you please tell me what should we bring to them foreign countries? Some Turks went only for one thing and that's this $. They went their didn't know language opened restaurant chains, became millionaires and rich bought a villa in Türkiye and came back. This is how majority is. I can assure you that they are much richer than Persians who basically serve as if they are a part of that country. We don't go and serve in their army and be their servants for their nation.

 

[TuranKhan]

Cherry picking ehhh?

Seems like you don't have any answer to rest of the post, like Trade with all countries, NATO protection etc.

Chery picking what? I don't know what was you asking.

NATO is a military organisation not economic. NATO consists of countries and no country in the world gives free technology if they did we would have had a 5th generation fighter by now. In fact most our defence companies was founded after the US defence embargo after Cyprus.

 

[Surenas]

^
Surenas with his racist studies again

They are not racist studies Einstein. They are respectable studies, conducted by the German government. Should I also provide you with Dutch sources, to show your great intellectuality and supremacy in foreign countries?

 

[ASQ-1918]

İnsanın birazcık kafası oluyor oda bu forumda uçup gidiyor.

Gerçekten böyle giderse artık girmem ben böyle bir yere, sizi bilmem ama. Boş yere gelip sinir olup çıkıyoruz.

 

[TuranKhan]

Guys just report Surenas he is trolling after arguments because first he started that we was only good at ruling countries and invasions then that we couldn't build cities, then to what you doing in Germany and Holland then to something else.

He has seen our superiority and came out or logical arguments.

Whoever is the moderator here please report this troll.

 

[TuranKhan]

Surenas that Turks poorly integrated makes me happy thanks for posting because it shows we are not assimilated into them and turned into Germans which is the main aim of Germans.

At the end

HE IS HAPPY WHO SAYS IM A TURK

 

[Surenas]

Guys just report Surenas he is trolling after arguments because first he started that we was only good at ruling countries and invasions then that we couldn't build cities, then to what you doing in Germany and Holland then to something else.

He has seen our superiority and came out or logical arguments.

I haven't said anything wrong. You guys came up with gypsies and Turkish supremacy, so it was just time to show you this supremacy. The supremacy that most Dutch and German people look at you guys as thirld-world immigrants, with no other economical function than opening kebab and vegetable stores. This is your supremacy.

Surenas that Turks poorly integrated makes me happy thanks for posting because it shows we are not assimilated into them and turned into Germans which is the main aim of Germans.

Be proud of being overrepresented in rape statistics, drug statistics, etc.

 

[KRAIT]

Chery picking what? I don't know what was you asking.
NATO is a military organisation not economic. NATO consists of countries and no country in the world gives free technology if they did we would have had a 5th generation fighter by now. In fact most our defence companies was founded after the US defence embargo after Cyprus.

NATO is a military organization which gives you cover over any external attack. They are selling you F-35.

Leave it, I can keep on going, but I don't hate Turkey, you have a good nation but bashing Iran like people started with Iranian GDP, is not wise.

 

[LegionnairE]

you are free to provide me with Turkish architecture in your ancient homeland; Central-Asia/Mongolia.

It is sad that there is not much left of ancient Turkic culture. Whatever left behind was mostly destroyed by Chinese. But unlike what is widely known, Turks built some durable cities in the antiquity. There are still a few examples are left if you can dig through

What's more sad is that the most of our literature was lost. Today the oldest pieces of Turkic literature we can get our hands on, are written upon Orkhon inscriptions. Turkish is one of the oldest languages around the world, it's about 3000 years old. There were some ceremonial items found even older than Orkhon inscriptions but.. too little