Featured Azerbaijan and Pakistan JF-17 negotiations

[Nasr]

Azerbaijan has rock solid relation with Israel and Pakistan is hostile to Israel. It is highly unlikely Azerbaijan will anger Israel by buying JF-17 from Pakistan. They will buy FC-1 from China which has good relation with Israel.

You got it the other way round, it is the illegal state of isreal that is hostile to everyone else. They are the ones who illegally occupy the Holy Land. Their claim to establishing a state for Jews is based on a lie and their whole argument falls apart when they are challenged. They created israel on the basis of religion, otherwise they do not have a leg to stand on. And their claim in Judaism is demolished by the Noble Qur'an.

As for Azerbaijan, well Pakistan is the one who has supported this Khazari country, based on it's friendship with the other Khazari country, Turkey. The entirety of Pakistan's friendship with Turkey or Azerbaijan, is based on them being Islamic countries. Yet, in a twist of irony, both Turkey and Azerbaijan recognize the illegal state of isreal and have very strong business, political, military and socio-racial ties with them.

Pakistan ought to be marketing the JF-17 Thunders to countries such as Indonesia, Argentina, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Algeria, Niger and so on. The arms market has been dominated by the french, the americans and the brits. The Najdi states are a lost cause, they will disintegrate further, as time goes by. Pakistan ought to focus on countries which have an independent foreign policy, to establish strong ties for not only military sales, but also mutually beneficial trade. Malaysia is a very strong candidate in that respect and Pakistan has a lot to gain from further expanding ties with this country.

The target market has to conform to the type of fighter that the JF-17 Thunder is, which is light weight. Hence selling the Thunder to a country like Argentina or Indonesia, would not make sense, since both countries have vast territories to protect. Malaysia is geographically suitable for the JF-17 Thunder and it is a country which is relatively an economically sound state.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The entirety of Pakistan's friendship with Turkey or Azerbaijan, is based on them being Islamic countries. Yet, in a twist of irony, both Turkey and Azerbaijan recognize the illegal state of isreal and have very strong business, political, military and socio-racial ties with them.

Turkey and Azerbaijan are republics. They are not Islamic countries. The only Islamic countries are arguably Iran, Pakistan, Qatar.

 

[aziqbal]

The target market has to conform to the type of fighter that the JF-17 Thunder is, which is light weight. Hence selling the Thunder to a country like Argentina or Indonesia, would not make sense, since both countries have vast territories to protect. Malaysia is geographically suitable for the JF-17 Thunder and it is a country which is relatively an economically sound state.

yes a good point but have you seen the size of Nigeria ? its a big country

with JF17B and IFR we can pitch to others like Indonesia who also operate the F16

once we identify the "niche" we can go all out on sales

 

[Nadeem Ganjum]

Jf looking BEAST in the last pic.

 

[Nasr]

Turkey and Azerbaijan aren't Islamic countries. The only Islamic countries are arguably Iran, Pakistan, Qatar.

Tell that to Erdogan, he wants to Turkey to be the champions of Islam and wants to revive the Ottoman Empire.

Erdogan Pitches Himself as Muslim World’s New Leader | OZY

The Turkish leader wants to supplant Saudi Arabia as the so-called leader of the Islamic world.

www.ozy.com

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Tell that to Erdogan, he wants to Turkey to be the champions of Islam and wants to revive the Ottoman Empire.

Not true.

 

[Nasr]

yes a good point but have you seen the size of Nigeria ? its a big country. with JF17B and IFR we can pitch to others like Indonesia who also operate the F16 once we identify the "niche" we can go all out on sales

Well you are correct in your remark, Nigeria is indeed a large country in terms of area. However, relative to Argentina and Indonesia, it is smaller. I do agree with you that we have to identify and address the "niche" market.

I would hope that the new RD-93MA engines are more fuel efficient, while being more powerful as well. It is also worth at least exploring whether Conformal Fuel Tanks are in any way a feasible option for the Block-3 Thunders. Because if it is, then PAC has a very real chance of grabbing orders from Indonesia, Argentina and Malaysia.

Indonesia being a state made up of 17,508 islands, has a vast maritime territory to cover. 8 million square kilometers is no joke and a significant part of that territory consists of water. CFTs would definitely be crucial to pitch the Thunder to Indonesia, considering the aircraft has one engine as opposed to two for maritime combat.

Not true.

Prove it!

 

[Indos]

yes a good point but have you seen the size of Nigeria ? its a big country

with JF17B and IFR we can pitch to others like Indonesia who also operate the F16

once we identify the "niche" we can go all out on sales

JF 17 is Pakistan-China JV with 50:50 cooperation. Indonesia is unlikely to use Chinese equipment. You can see our fighter, aircraft, warships, tanks etc to see this tendency.

We could buy Chinese weapons if only there is no obligation to get spare parts from them and usually for a small number of acquisitions like 4 CH 4 drones and some anti ships missiles (bought before SCS issues gets hotter, our latest ASM is exocet)

The reason is SCS dispute.

 

[denel]

Hi,

You Only been reading it for last 15 years---gd for you.

But your understanding of the issue is minimal---. You are just an average pakistani male who has a knee jerk reaction to the issue---.

Young sir---likes of you are filling up the streets of pakistan and other muslim countries---.

You kids are like a noodle---brittle when dry--and shapeless when wet---. All that the likes of you has done is yell scream and holler---no tactics---no strategy---no game plan---no learning how to act against the enemy---.

Pakistan had a chance at coalition in GCC---and that was with the permission of the west---( their big blunder and fck up and of pakistan for not understanding their blunder---).

Then you are getting into the cause and creation of pakistan---.

Jinnah Sahib was a true secular---a whiskey drinker who may have liked pork as well---so don't get carried away with the name of Islamic Republic of Pakistan---.

The name Islamic republic of Pakistan was given to attract those muslims who did not want to leave india and join pakistan---Islami was to attract the muslims---.

You kids are so innocent and so illiterarte---it is so sad---.

Just remember---you are another loud mouth braggart---and there are hundreds of millions of you roaming the streets of The Islamic World---.


Hi,

Thank you for the post---. Many a young pakistani readers don't understand that it takes a long time to make these fighter aircraft deals---.

For these posters---whenever they stop understanding this---they need to look at what the Paf did to pakistan---.

Pakistan---in dire need of fighter aircraft on sept 11 2001 and Paf never purchase anything till about 8 years later---.

The argentinian deal is also a wake up call for the industry---. When you want to sell---do the search as to what the buyer wants in a machine and not what the seller thinks what it can do with it---.

You hit the nail on the head; hire real marketing talent and sales people. Look for opportunities and constant followups instead of listening to MOU drips between countries. That will makes sales realise.

I could go on and on.

Azerbaijan has very good relation with Israel. Pakistan is sworn enemy of Israel. Azerbaijan won't buy JF-17 from Pakistan because Azerbaijan won't risk its good relation with Israel.

Says who... they already brought trainers.

All is good in business; politics for politicians.

 

[Tempest II]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345098428045529088

 

[Oracle]

Confirmed?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The basics of sales---or 101 of sales is market your product to those who want to buy it first and foremost---.

Why waste energy elsewhere---.

Once your product shows quality---they will all come running.

So---Kamra should focus on keeping the level of quality / workmanship high---do better than best----have a solid competitive product and the buyers will line up.

The sales had already started with Myanmar---wasn't that a surprise to many a naysayers who wanted proof and links---then came Nigeria---and again the questions about links and proofs started popping up again---.

Azxerbaijan is in the air and so is Argentina---.

Kamra will beat the Saab in sales hands down.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Assalam-u-Alaikum



There is a marked difference between reading something and studying a subject. I have done the latter, for the last 15 years. I suggest you read my post again before responding.



Pray tell, on what basis or yard stick have you come to conclude that my understanding of the issue is "minimal"? Explanation was given as to why Azerbaijan is a hyena in sheep skin. Prior to my shedding light on the subject, most were not aware that Azerbaijan is closely knit with the illegal state of israel. Giving historical and racial-links as references, was sufficient to prove to all, that Azerbaijan is crooked. Same goes for all those Muslim countries that have relations with that criminal zionist state. But of course, you call it "knee jerk" for whatever unexplained reason.

It seems as though, you're one of those who have no issue with israel. Perhaps that maybe your lack of study of the Holy Quran, or perhaps you don't give a damn either way. Irrespective of, it is clear that you aren't equipped to respond intellectually. Hence you chose to respond with degrading remarks. Well at least that exposed your actual acumen level on the subject.



You know, I really have an innate hatred for hinduvta yuppies, however what I hate even more is to fight with my own countrymen. So I choose to engage with you, intellectually and encourage you to respond with more reasoning and less derogatory remarks.



Interesting choice of words! But for your information, I am a grown man, 40+ years old.



Well my friend, here is where we pull our swords out. For an actual and real Muslim, an alliance with Najdis is worth not even the dirt under my shoes. Why? Because my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam has already spoken of these Najdis, as where "Qarn-u-Shaitaan" (Age of Satan) emerges from. So no! I would crush any suggestion of allying with Najdis, because I take the word of my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam over anyone else.

The Najdis have proven their worth, as they have chosen to ally with israel, not Pakistan. They have also chosen to ally with the West, when real Muslim country would oppose the West at all costs. Najdis have even allied with Pakistan's arch enemy, india, on Kashmir. As for the so-called GCC Coalition, huh, their brutal war on the people of Yemen is a testament to how sin-laden these scoundrels really are. So if you want to go join them, go ahead. I choose to stand by my beloved Prophet Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, to my last breath.



Brother, where else would I get into? The constitution of the United States of America? Or the Magna Carta? Seriously bro .... as a Pakistani, the cause and creation of Pakistan is the fundamental basis of understanding who we are. Anyone who chooses to ignore this subject, is living in neverland ranch.



I see that you have chosen the sub-standard route of argument. Care to back your claims with hard evidence to prove that Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a whiskey drinker, pork eater and so on?

If Jinnah was what you whimsically say he is, then why would he dedicate his life toward the plight of the Muslims in South Asia? Since of course, he was part of the "All India National Congress", then why leave such a strong party and fight for just Muslims? He was all for the unity of hindus and Muslims, then why change his stance and risk his political career?

The thing is, you have no answer for those questions. Since you're bitterness and whatever the heck is causing your aneurysm posts, does not conform to logic or reasoning at all. If Jinnah was a true secular, then he would've stuck with the indian Congress and not fought for a Pakistan.



Pakistan was created for Muslims of South Asia, as the british colonial rule was coming to an end. As for your whole "attraction" argument, well explain why in India, there is the world's third largest population of Muslims? What an absurd reasoning you have, tsk ... tsk ... tsk! Calling Muhammad Ali Jinnah a whiskey drinker, pork eating secularist, without any proof or hard evidence. Then trying to dissuade Pakistanis from thinking that Pakistan has no Islam in it.

Wah, wah .... kya chaal chaltay ho!



Read my words carefully, because there is nothing a know-at-all like you or anyone else can say or do, that would make me abandon my faith in Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. I choose to follow my Nabi, Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam ... not you. I choose to study the Noble Qur'an and seek to discern fact from fiction in the real world. For the Word of God is more powerful than the gibberish uttered by a buffoon.

So you can continue to mislead others to follow the Najidi scum, or to recognize the murderer zionist state of israel, or to associate with other trojan Muslim states like Turkey or Azerbaijan. I will continue to make my fellow countrymen aware that the Truth is in the Noble Qur'an and it is what gives a Muslim to fight back against shaitaan and it's fitna.

Now you can go back to ranting all you want!!!

brother I appreciate your commitment and your arguments that are close to your heart but the post is out of scope here.
if we go by prophesies and end of times stories then we shouldn't even be posting on forums. we should have our swords out and prepare to face the horn of satan that will come out of Najad or Riaz (as alleged). the Royal families of Arabistan have made their choices and so have we. for whatever reasons (faith, principles or fear) we wont be recognizing Israel but we need to sell our jets to all sorts of nations with very dismal human rights record. thats the only way to bring in the revenue.

too much pressure from Russia

I doubt Azeris will buy JF17 even if they wanted too

with Chinese engines it wont be an issue.

 

[MastanKhan]

The air force did the best by taking over this project. I think it was a great idea and successful for Pakistan to partner with the plane it had to buy to meet its low budget. As I said in another topic before, it is also a great choice for low budget African countries, but the countries you count will never want this plane. You don't have to blame the army.

Hi,

What do you mean by " countries that count "---.

None of those countries air forces are of any significant count in front of the PAF---so if Paf accepts this aircraft as the most utilitarian aircraft for the force---then by default it is a superior aircraft---.

Now " those countries that count " have their own choices---. They have been using a certain aircraft or certain products that have been " time tested " by them---and it is not easy to leave a time tested weapon for a new one---.

People who buy BMW's and Mercedes can also afford to buy hondas and toyotas---but they don't---even though both are more reliable and have a higher resale value---. But then that is not what " that " buyer is looking for---.

he is looking for a show piece which he believe that would satisfy his need.

A good example is Myanmar and Nigeria---the FC1 / JF17 would be the most advanced fighting equipment that ever showed up at their doorsteps available to them and they are happy as a cockerspaniel with his plate fuul of beefy delights---.

Lol, who knows maybe Trump's plan was to have a single Palestinian state with Palestinians as equal rights who'd eventually outnumber the Jews then take over the nations government and military and rename it to Palestine.

That could be a viable peace settlement that I think we could all live with.

I personally reject Shirani's point of view on this conflict.

1. Turkey's recognition of Israel is before there was representative government in the country and after the destruction of the Ottoman caliphate at the hands of the very nations which created Israel. So whether Turkey recognizes it now or not isn't necessarily a reason for us to do so.
2. In light verses like Surah 60:09 I do not see how we could reproach Israel particularly without a peace settlement:

"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."​

​

Deoband has some serious issues, their credibility is questionable considering their deep ties to the GCC monarchies.

Back in 2015 the JUI-F and Deoband in general were pushing for Pakitan's participation in the Saudi coalitions "war of terror" on the people of Yemen. This failed miserably, turned into one of the worlds worst humanitarian crises and now they're wading in on Palestine which coincidentally GCC nations are likely seeking Pakistan's support on?

The Arab nations that have so far recognized Israel aren't representative governments rather brutal authoritarian dictatorships where the people don't have a voice. It's clear that Arab opinion on this is largely negative confirmed by both NGO's and relevant Israeli ministries:
Israel Ministry of Strategic Affairs | 90% of the discourse on social media in Arabic about normalization with Israel - negative
DOHA Institute | 88% of Arabs oppose normalization with Israel

Turkey may be the only Muslim democracy that recognizes it and their relations have deteriorated since the rise of representative Muslim leadership under the AKP so much so that Israel regards Turkey as a growing threat:
Israeli military and intelligence assessments see Turkey as growing threat

Turkey only a few days ago filled the post of ambassador to Israel after a 2 year hiatus and that was to help ease tensions with the US and incoming President Joe Biden. However, from what I can tell, Turkey's diplomatic relations with Israel are almost non-existent.

So Israel's "friends" are tyrants and these are friendships facilitated by an overstretched US which has committed unspeakable horrors globally and is desperate to alleviate tensions so it can focus on China and the Indo-Pacific region.

I've also said this on other posts but not only does Pakistan gain nothing from recognizing Israel, in fact we only stand to lose, but our alliance with China puts us in a different camp from those allied to Israel.



Brother, the Azeri's love Pakistan.

I've met a few irl and they've made it a point to highlight their close relationship to Pakistan before I even knew we had one.

Our job shouldn't be to concern ourselves with who any nations allies are at the moment instead develop strong ties with other nations particularly those that share cultural ties with us like Azerbaijan.

We should seek to extricate Israel, like the US, from all Muslim nations.



No, in light of the their crimes invading Palestine, driving Muslims from their homes and persecuting the Palestinian peoples they are our enemy.

They are directly aiding hegemonic Hindu terror by supporting India and we should be aiding freedom fighters that are in opposition to the Zionist occupation.

Hi,

My innocent young man---there would not have been a humanitarian crisis in Yemen if Pak military had gone in---.

They would have neutered the situation fast in an amicable manner so that the things would not go out of control---.

The HOUTHIS tragically got what they asked for---a humanitarian crisis of their own making---.

No one told them never to play proxy to Iran---.

 

[Nasr]

brother I appreciate your commitment and your arguments that are close to your heart but the post is out of scope here.
if we go by prophesies and end of times stories then we shouldn't even be posting on forums. we should have our swords out and prepare to face the horn of satan that will come out of Najad or Riaz (as alleged). the Royal families of Arabistan have made their choices and so have we. for whatever reasons (faith, principles or fear) we wont be recognizing Israel but we need to sell our jets to all sorts of nations with very dismal human rights record. thats the only way to bring in the revenue.

with Chinese engines it wont be an issue.

There isn't any scope for a Muslim, other than his/her Imaan in Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. If the french, as debased as they are, can sell their weapons to anyone with the money to buy it, yet do not compromise on their hollow "freedom on speech" rant. Then why is it so hard for Pakistan to stand firm on it's principles and yet be able to thrive in the arms market or even the global trade market?

Also, Pakistan can sell the azeris whatever they want, so long as it doesn't compromise on it's own security. Find a way to do that, you can sell those khazaris anything from horse carts to missiles. But my point was, I am getting the impression that it isn't sinking in, to not fall for the age old gullible Pakistani mentality of "Saudi-Pakistani Bhai, Bhai," or "Emirati-Pakistani Bhai, Bhai," on the basis that they're Muslim States, when in reality they went their way which not a coincidence. The trap of being taken advantage of our gullibility, ought to be far more important to Pakistan, than selling a few jets.

Again, my message to Pakistani establishment and to the People of Pakistan is, to choose your friends with extreme caution.