AVIC Presents FC-31 Stealth Fighter model to Pakistan Air Force Chief.

[That Guy]

Well, if we needed any confirmation about a potential 5th gen sale to Pakistan, this seems to be the closest we'll get for a while.

 

[MilSpec]

What is the accounting principle of government capital expenditure budget? Is this budgeted as depreciation, or cash outlay?

Principle usually is Accrual Basis....

Capex for Defence atleast for India is based of borad spectrum Zero-Based accounting method.

Pakistan Defence budget by 2020=21Billion dollars

further explanation would help....

 

[Dazzler]

Few things here....

* the air chief asked for advanced sensor fusion + avionics aesa and weapons for jft. The j-31 offer came from avic head and at very friendly terms, yeah we know this part

* actually the PLAN has shown interest n j-31 even before us, more so because they love Shenyang aircrafts and already operating plethora of J-11, 15, 16 etc.

* likely timeline of delivery should be 2022-24 in the Ernest.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF SPOKESPERSON
Shared privately 2:57 PM


AIR CHIEF VISITS SHENYANG AIRCRAFT CORPORATION CHINA

ISLAMABAD 04 JUNE, 2015: Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force visited Shenyang Aircraft Corporation at Shenyang China. On his arrival, he was received by Mr Li Yuhai Executive Vice President, Aviation Industry Corporation of China. He was given a detailed briefing about J-31 Stealth aircraft and its capabilities. The Air Chief also witnessed the static display of this high-tech aircraft. The Air Chief appreciated the Chinese Engineers for manufacturing this fifth generation fighter aircraft

 

[Hallian_Khan]

When you do something like this than talk... everything else is just hot air

Indian MIG 25 flies over Islamabad undetected.


It is understood that in May 1997 an Indian Air Force MiG-25RB overflew Pakistan. The aircraft entered Pakinstani airspace sub-sonically at around 65,000ft and was undetected. Then having overflown and photographed strategic installations near the capital, Islamabad, the

​

aircraft turned back towards India. Perhaps to rub Pakistani’s noses in it, the Foxbat pilot decided to accelerate up to Mach 2 and dropped a large sonic boom as he exited Pakistani airspace. A number of Pakistani F-16As were scrambled, but had insufficient time to make an effective intercept. In 1991, India and Pakistan signed the ‘Prevention of Airspace Violations’ agreement, but as is so often the case with international agreements, when it suits one side to ignore them, then that’s exactly what they do.

yes u r right yesterday i was flying over delhi last night and was undetected even wen i left ur airspace they didnt detect my jet....

 

[Shotgunner51]

Principle usually is Accrual Basis....
Capex for Defence atleast for India is based of borad spectrum Zero-Based accounting method.
further explanation would help....

Accrual as % of which item? You mean provision right? So it's a depreciation of purchased assets reflected on the book, and provision can be carried over from previous years.

Either way respective financing can be arranged, say loan, financial leasing (with transfer of ownership) or vendor financing.

The CAPEX let's assume 36 pc @ $80 million ea total value $2.88 billion, use 20 years straight-line zeo residual the depreciation expense is only around $0.144 billion p.a., doesn't seem like much pressure compared to say a $10 billion budget i.e. 1.44%? Even if add 10-15% financing cost that's only marginal, and small amount like that can be easily financed.

@Horus

 

[That Guy]

2020-2022. By that time our defense budget will be in excess of 50 Billion dollars / fiscal cycle (5 year term). My guess is that PAF will seek 36 units to begin with ( 18X2 = 36 = 2 Squadrons ) then depending on its utility might place another order. The best news is that PAF plans to integrate Link-16 and Sensor Fusion developed for J-20 into our JF-17 fleet. In other words they are looking at across the board network centric capabilities backed by our AWACs, AESA ground radars and a multi layered SAM system we are slowly building up. PAF is not focusing on building huge numbers but on having up to 400 advanced jets which are fully capable of fighting as a swarm in a network centric warfare setting. To give you an example the best feature of JAS-39 Gripen-D aka Gripen NG is its netcentricity. A small formation of Gripen -NGs can communicate and share data with each other which allows them to fight as a team against a larger enemy force.

No way Pakistan's defense budget is exceeding $15 billion by 2020. Yearly budget increases for the military is 10%, so if we calculate it ($8 billion being the current budget), this adds up to $11.8 billion (give or take a few hundred million -I hope I did the math right-). Even if Pakistan's economy grows dramatically, the military budget will increase at the same pace, unless Pakistan's budgetary policy changes. Remember, Pakistan's military budget is build upon a defensive doctrine, even modernization won't increase the budget all that dramatically.

[Edit]: Disregard this comment. I did not read your other comment explaining where you got that number from. I'm leaving my comment up for people to know how the budget increases.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

PAF has up to 2020-22 to save up since they are making no new purchase except from JF-17s which already have been funded. With 7 years of strategic budget planning and allocation sum growing every year, acquiring 2 squadrons of FC-31s is not impossible.

Any potential sales of JF-17's would offset the cost of JF-17 PAF has to pay. Hence enough money to save for more than 2 squadrons of FC-31's. It also includes the latest deal between Pakistan and China to procure any thing in the inventory.

 

[Taygibay]

Apart from the electronics, the J-31 looks like an F-35 copy.

But before any Chinese member gets all iffy and huffy, copy in this case is NOT a bad thing.
One of the JSF flaws is that single engine requiring immense power and sacrificing safety …
which the J-31 fixes with the dual engine design.

The only gap in tech is that of Chinese-made mission equipments that have not been proved.
Once that is done, the J-31 will be a serious contender considering its far lower price.

We'll have to monitor its progress very closely.

Good evening all, Tay.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Few things here....

* the air chief asked for advanced sensor fusion + avionics aesa and weapons for jft. The j-31 offer came from avic head and at very friendly terms, yeah we know this part

* actually the PLAN has shown interest n j-31 even before us, more so because they love Shenyang aircrafts and already operating plethora of J-11, 15, 16 etc.

* likely timeline of delivery should be 2022-24 in the Ernest.

If PAF decides to go after J-31 it would have not problem choosing any future aircraft manufactured by China. They would enjoy relations with both Chinese manufacturers hence more competition and advancement benefits. If the terms are favourable then this is because AVIC also wants to get its share of Pakistani market and exploit the cheap labour. It is a good step IMO.

 

[Khurram2349]

Pakistan Air Force pilots are one of the best in the world and deserve to fly one of the best machines ! Long live PAF and Pakistan Zindabad !

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Apart from the electronics, the J-31 looks like an F-35 copy.

But before any Chinese member gets all iffy and huffy, copy in this case is NOT a bad thing.
One of the JSF flaws is that single engine requiring immense power and sacrificing safety …
which the J-31 fixes with the dual engine design.

The only gap in tech is that of Chinese-made mission equipments that have not been proved.
Once that is done, the J-31 will be a serious contender considering its far lower price.

We'll have to monitor its progress very closely.

Good evening all, Tay.

Regarding J-31 being a copy of F-35 is not true because China manufactures parts for F-35 and has been transferred the technology.
Chinese made mission equipment and other systems are concerned those are also undergoing testing on J-31's and other products. It is the same for F-35's they are going to getting new systems and weapons.

 

[Windjammer]

When you do something like this than talk... everything else is just hot air

Indian MIG 25 flies over Islamabad undetected.


It is understood that in May 1997 an Indian Air Force MiG-25RB overflew Pakistan. The aircraft entered Pakinstani airspace sub-sonically at around 65,000ft and was undetected. Then having overflown and photographed strategic installations near the capital, Islamabad, the

​

aircraft turned back towards India. Perhaps to rub Pakistani’s noses in it, the Foxbat pilot decided to accelerate up to Mach 2 and dropped a large sonic boom as he exited Pakistani airspace. A number of Pakistani F-16As were scrambled, but had insufficient time to make an effective intercept. In 1991, India and Pakistan signed the ‘Prevention of Airspace Violations’ agreement, but as is so often the case with international agreements, when it suits one side to ignore them, then that’s exactly what they do.

We done it 50 years earlier and unlike the IAF, PAF, flew at tree top height.

 

[Badbadman]

We done it 50 years earlier and unlike the IAF, PAF, flew at tree top height.

You know where Amritsar is ?

 

[Windjammer]

You know where Amritsar is ?

Yes, it's in Khalistan.