Authentic Hadees Reference of Ghazwa-E-Hind

[waz]

Bro I am having a discussion with someone actually. So really wanted a reference for this hadith. It's a request if you it for 2 days or more please.

I'll do something better, who is the person you are talking to? I'll let you guys do it in private.

 

[SipahSalar]

I can't recall any. Firstly, the word itself is incorrect, there can be no Ghazwa if the Prophet does not take part in it so you can't call it a Ghazwa.

But the prophet did state that he feels a cool breeze coming from hind ( he is very optimistic about that region). Also when Dajjal comes, an army in this region will raise black flags to fight him, and then it will be obligatory on every muslim to try to reach and join this army. Sorry, I don't have any references Googling might help you.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@waz Why delete the thread? Why not just lock it?

 

[vitalsign]

Hello Guys, can anyone share the authentic reference of Ghazwa-E-Hind hadees including Book, Page & Hadees number please? It's important. It should be from an Authentic Hadees Books.

Man Islam don't allow you to question on any of Hadith or any verse of Quran. As we believe in Allah we should definitely believe on every word of his holy Book and of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). And if anyone of us deny or question then he is probably doing a sin. If you deny any hadith then it mean you are denying the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). @Winchester this is for you too.

@Pakistani till death second video is for you.

@Junaid B I will recommend you to watch these short clips,

 

[xperia]

The reason why it has been called as Ghazwa is that in this battle the muslims will be having the spiritual leadership of the Prophet SAW. But the most important question here is " are we muslim enough to have that leadership of the prophet SAW?" Because last time i checked there is not much difference between us and the munafiqeens

Man Islam don't allow you to question on any of Hadith or any verse of Quran. As we believe in Allah we should definitely believe on every word of his holy Book and of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). And if anyone of us deny or question then he is probably doing a sin. If you deny any hadith then it mean you are denying the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). @Winchester this is for you too.

@Pakistani till death second video is for you.

@Junaid B I will recommend you to watch these short clips,

It is really important to check the authenticity and the credibility of any information we get as per the teachings of the prophet SAW. It becomes even more important in case of religious knowledge. So there is no problem in verifying the authenticity of any Hadith rather its recommended especially in the present world which is the time of deception and lies as stated by the Prophet SAW

 

[Silverblaze]

This issue is mentioned in the book called Sunan Nasai which is considered at the 6th level of strength by most muslim scholars. In that book, 2 out of the 3 sayings of Prophet (SAW) regarding india have been given the grade: Daif, which means weak.

One is considered hasan which means good.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

One of my Indian Muslim friend is saying that this is a 'Atangwadi' hadees..Of course he would say that. He says that the Hind area includes even Pakistan. I said the hadees has been narrated about the future times. But he is not accepting it as expected.

As expected means?

 

[bongbang]

Good actual Hind is in Pakistan area now. Indus valley and Sindh. And its conquered. No need for more war.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Wasn't Hind at that time being used as a reference for the River Indus???
Last time i checked people living along the Indus are Muslims.

Now to this whole idea that certain people have developed propagated by the likes of Zaid Hamid that this would mean flying our flag over Delhi.......so let me get this straight we got independence in 1947 just to have a separate country for ourselves but if we follow this theory that this would mean us going back in to form a single country again

What was the point of partition in the first place???

Also if in an alternative timeline India becomes so weak that we run over there army, then what???

We would be forced to occupy a country with our extremely limited resources.....plus that country between would have a BILLION people hostile to our presence there.

Considering we defeated the Indian state means that they would be in total turmoil then how are going to feed an extra BILLION people???

Yes. When we read anything historical we have to "contextualize". We have to transliterate which would not only be "Transliteration in the conversion of a text from one script to another" but also take into account change in meaning of terms/words over centuries - known as "word drift".

Thus "Hind" in 7th Century Arabian context would be modern Sindh. I believe that was conquered long time ago by Muslims. During British times "India" meant modern day, Pakistan, Indian Republic, Bangladesh and even Burma - Myanmar. In 19th century presumably conquest of "Hind" would have meant taking this huge area ( below ) over.

British Indian Empire 1909.

Even in times of Acheamenid Persian there was a satrapy called Hindush ( Hind ) proximate to modern day Sindh. So when you transliterate you have adjust for the historical timeframe you are referring to or otherwise you will end with wrong translation.

If you read a historical novel from 15th century and the plot revolved around Birmingham you would not jump and assume it is Birmingham, Alabama, USA just because of the same name. You would have to contextualize and realize it must have been Birmingham, UK.

Hindush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[xperia]

This issue is mentioned in the book called Sunan Nasai which is considered at the 6th level of strength by most muslim scholars. In that book, 2 out of the 3 sayings of Prophet (SAW) regarding india have been given the grade: Daif, which means weak.

One is considered hasan which means good.

What i have read about Sunan Nisae is that it is considered third most authentic collection of Hadits after the sahiain

 

[Mutakalim]

Could you please save what people have sent you as I am about to delete this thread. The policy is very clear when it comes to religious threads such as these. Basic ones like Salat etc are fine.

Yeah please close this thread immediately before someone start degrading religion. Mods should adopt zero tolerance on this issue.

I can't recall any. Firstly, the word itself is incorrect, there can be no Ghazwa if the Prophet does not take part in it so you can't call it a Ghazwa.

Difference here is between Lughwi ma'ana and sharai ma'ana. Ghazwa is used here as literal meaning. It's not up to you and me to decide authenticity of Hadees. Leave this to the people who knows.

 

[Winchester]

. If you deny any hadith then it mean you are denying the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). @Winchester this is for you too.

Stop giving fatwas here !!!

As Atanz posted there in those days Hind was usually referred to modern day Sindh.

I am satisfied with my faith and that matter is solely between me and Allah.

 

[Mutakalim]

I have an issue with the name ghazwa e hind. A ghazwa is a battle in which Rasool (SAW) fought himself. Secondly the muslims did attack india and ruled it for a thousand years. Was that what our prophet (saw) referring to or another battle? He had also told the muslims when they were still second class citizens in makkah that they would one day rule the byzantine and the persian empire (two super powers of the time) and a while later it came true. Can someone with knowledge help me in this regard as well? Thank you

Difference here is between Lughwi ma'ana and sharai ma'ana. Ghazwa is used here as literal meaning. It's not up to you and me to decide authenticity of Hadees. Leave this to the people who knows.

What i have read about Sunan Nisae is that it is considered third most authentic collection of Hadits after the sahiain

Diffrence of opinion between scholars. Some muhadseen also consider Musnad Ahmad in Siah Sita.

 

[Dubious]

Gazwa E Hind
is that enough????

This is not the way to quote the hadith...

I went to sunah.com and searched for india :

it is chapter 41:

It was narrated that Thawban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'There are two groups of my Ummah whom Allah will free from the Fire: The group that invades India, and the group that will be with 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him.'"

Grade : Hasan (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3175
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 91
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3177
And the hadith is not SAHIH it is Hasan (good but not sound)

The Classification Of Hadith - Islamic Awareness
The final verdict on a hadith, i.e. Sahih (sound), Hasan (good), Da`if (weak) or Maudu` (fabricated, forged),


There are 2 which are Daif:

It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) promised us that we would invade India. If I live to see that, I will sacrifice myself and my wealth. If I am killed, I will be one of the best of the martyrs, and if I come back, I will be Abu Hurairah Al-Muharrar." [1] [1] Al-Muharrar: The one freed (from the Fire).

أَخْبَرَنِي أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ حَكِيمٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا زَكَرِيَّا بْنُ عَدِيٍّ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَبِي أُنَيْسَةَ، عَنْ سَيَّارٍ، ح قَالَ وَأَنْبَأَنَا هُشَيْمٌ، عَنْ سَيَّارٍ، عَنْ جَبْرِ بْنِ عَبِيدَةَ، - وَقَالَ عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ عَنْ جُبَيْرٍ، - عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ وَعَدَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَزْوَةَ الْهِنْدِ فَإِنْ أَدْرَكْتُهَا أُنْفِقْ فِيهَا نَفْسِي وَمَالِي فَإِنْ أُقْتَلْ كُنْتُ مِنْ أَفْضَلِ الشُّهَدَاءِ وَإِنْ أَرْجِعْ فَأَنَا أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ الْمُحَرَّرُ ‏.‏
Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3173
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 89
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3175
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It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) promised that we would invade India. If I live to see that I will sacrifice myself and my wealth. If I am killed, I will be one of the best of the martyrs, and if I come back, I will be Abu Hurairah Al-Muharrar."

حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا هُشَيْمٌ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سَيَّارٌ أَبُو الْحَكَمِ، عَنْ جَبْرِ بْنِ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ وَعَدَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَزْوَةَ الْهِنْدِ فَإِنْ أَدْرَكْتُهَا أُنْفِقْ فِيهَا نَفْسِي وَمَالِي وَإِنْ قُتِلْتُ كُنْتُ أَفْضَلَ الشُّهَدَاءِ وَإِنْ رَجَعْتُ فَأَنَا أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ الْمُحَرَّرُ ‏.‏
Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3174
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 90
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3176


The Book of Jihad - Sunan an-Nasa'i - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Good actual Hind is in Pakistan area now. Indus valley and Sindh. And its conquered. No need for more war.

That is true...

During the life of the prophet he was asked about the end of time and he replied by showing his index finger and thumb very close together....Now if it was back then and he talked of Ghazwatul Hind then according to such chronology it has already happened when Pakistan was made unless we are getting Kashmir I dont see anything happening as per time scale.

Yes. When we read anything historical we have to "contextualize". We have to transliterate which would not only be "Transliteration in the conversion of a text from one script to another" but also take into account change in meaning of terms/words over centuries - known as "word drift".

Thus "Hind" in 7th Century Arabian context would be modern Sindh. I believe that was conquered long time ago by Muslims. During British times "India" meant modern day, Pakistan, Indian Republic, Bangladesh and even Burma - Myanmar. In 19th century presumably conquest of "Hind" would have meant taking this huge area ( below ) over.

British Indian Empire 1909.

Even in times of Acheamenid Persian there was a satrapy called Hindush ( Hind ) proximate to modern day Sindh. So when you transliterate you have adjust for the historical timeframe you are referring to or otherwise you will end with wrong translation.

If you read a historical novel from 15th century and the plot revolved around Birmingham you would not jump and assume it is Birmingham, Alabama, USA just because of the same name. You would have to contextualize and realize it must have been Birmingham, UK.

Hindush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

True....

However, the translation seems to have 1 problem it doesnt tell who this "we" are (as per the last 2 hadith in post 30)..and as per the hadith in quesiton:

'There are two groups of my Ummah whom Allah will free from the Fire: The group that invades India, and the group that will be with 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him

Which group is this coz it is given the same gift as the group that will be with Nabi Isa!

 

[Viper0011.]

Man Islam don't allow you to question on any of Hadith or any verse of Quran. As we believe in Allah we should definitely believe on every word of his holy Book and of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). And if anyone of us deny or question then he is probably doing a sin. If you deny any hadith then it mean you are denying the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). @Winchester this is for you too.

Why can't you question it? Just like any Sacred book, Koran is also a scripture. Its native language is in Arabic. From what I can see and know, probably 90% of Muslims outside of Arab countries, don't read and speak Arabic. So they have no idea what they are reading about.

This is where the terrorism comes in, idiot mullahs have used this inability to actually know the true translation and have done their translations that have very extremist point of views, and those are used to make a loyal fan base, and then use this fan base in violent activities like Shiite's vs. Sunni', and to even killing people as "non believers". When the reference of "People of the Book" has come up many times, referring to people not only believing in Islam, but people who have the scripture like Torah / First Testament / Gospel, etc. And the main reason why Muslims, are allowed inter-faith marriages with Jews and Christians.

So, back to the same thing, why not question something if you don't know and if you don't understand??? I think ANY God would want you to know his word clearly so you may follow it. Doesn't matter what religion you come from. Its common sense. Isn't it in Islam where it was said to Go get education from China if you have to? Referring to one of the longest distances centuries ago? As you can see with this one statement, acquiring knowledge has been made mandatory for your success, even if you have to take pain to get it or travel away from your family and VERY VERY long distances. So why is it that the religion wouldn't want you to question what you don't understand, and see the true meaning from multiple sources (knowing that mullahs have their own jihad mill going on and they'll probably give you their little version)??? I think you owe it to yourself, your children and to even whatever God you believe in, to understand the true context of your religion and how you can impact other humans and live with them in peace, harmony, without violent and for mutual growth!!