Authentic Hadees Reference of Ghazwa-E-Hind

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I'll do something better, who is the person you are talking to? I'll let you guys do it in private.

Good thing but some times the Personal messaging is not available.

 

[Srinivas]

Good actual Hind is in Pakistan area now. Indus valley and Sindh. And its conquered. No need for more war.

1) When the armies of Khurasan rise it is inevitable for them to conquer the Indus region to move towards Middle east.

2) This Hadith is not mentioned in the authentic Hadees book, It is considered as weak Hadees.

3) Muslims of Indian sub continent started using this hadees only after the formation of Pakistan.

4) The Arabs, Turks who invaded India never mentioned this Hadees.

5) Dr. Israr Ahmed described this Hadees as a combination of two or more Hadees, It seems they mixed the Hadees of "end of times" with that of Gazwa of Hind which happened a long time ago, during the times of Gaznavi and Ghori.

 

[Dubious]

90% of Muslims outside of Arab countries, don't read

probably 90% do read the script....Its a different story if they understand or not...Like many can read the Roman alphabets and anything written using them but its different if they actually understand what is written....

Quran Arabic is literature Arabic like many English literature novels themselves are complex even old English poetry is ....Quranic Arabic is complex too!

 

[Mutakalim]

This is not the way to quote the hadith...

I went to sunah.com and searched for india :

it is chapter 41:

It was narrated that Thawban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'There are two groups of my Ummah whom Allah will free from the Fire: The group that invades India, and the group that will be with 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him.'"

Grade : Hasan (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3175
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 91
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3177
And the hadith is not SAHIH it is Hasan (good but not sound)

The Classification Of Hadith - Islamic Awareness
The final verdict on a hadith, i.e. Sahih (sound), Hasan (good), Da`if (weak) or Maudu` (fabricated, forged),


There are 2 which are Daif:

It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) promised us that we would invade India. If I live to see that, I will sacrifice myself and my wealth. If I am killed, I will be one of the best of the martyrs, and if I come back, I will be Abu Hurairah Al-Muharrar." [1] [1] Al-Muharrar: The one freed (from the Fire).

أَخْبَرَنِي أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ حَكِيمٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا زَكَرِيَّا بْنُ عَدِيٍّ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَبِي أُنَيْسَةَ، عَنْ سَيَّارٍ، ح قَالَ وَأَنْبَأَنَا هُشَيْمٌ، عَنْ سَيَّارٍ، عَنْ جَبْرِ بْنِ عَبِيدَةَ، - وَقَالَ عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ عَنْ جُبَيْرٍ، - عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ وَعَدَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَزْوَةَ الْهِنْدِ فَإِنْ أَدْرَكْتُهَا أُنْفِقْ فِيهَا نَفْسِي وَمَالِي فَإِنْ أُقْتَلْ كُنْتُ مِنْ أَفْضَلِ الشُّهَدَاءِ وَإِنْ أَرْجِعْ فَأَنَا أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ الْمُحَرَّرُ ‏.‏
Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3173
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 89
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3175
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It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) promised that we would invade India. If I live to see that I will sacrifice myself and my wealth. If I am killed, I will be one of the best of the martyrs, and if I come back, I will be Abu Hurairah Al-Muharrar."

حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا هُشَيْمٌ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سَيَّارٌ أَبُو الْحَكَمِ، عَنْ جَبْرِ بْنِ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ وَعَدَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَزْوَةَ الْهِنْدِ فَإِنْ أَدْرَكْتُهَا أُنْفِقْ فِيهَا نَفْسِي وَمَالِي وَإِنْ قُتِلْتُ كُنْتُ أَفْضَلَ الشُّهَدَاءِ وَإِنْ رَجَعْتُ فَأَنَا أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ الْمُحَرَّرُ ‏.‏
Grade : Da'if (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3174
In-book reference : Book 25, Hadith 90
English translation : Vol. 1, Book 25, Hadith 3176


The Book of Jihad - Sunan an-Nasa'i - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)


That is true...

During the life of the prophet he was asked about the end of time and he replied by showing his index finger and thumb very close together....Now if it was back then and he talked of Ghazwatul Hind then according to such chronology it has already happened when Pakistan was made unless we are getting Kashmir I dont see anything happening as per time scale.


True....

However, the translation seems to have 1 problem it doesnt tell who this "we" are (as per the last 2 hadith in post 30)..and as per the hadith in quesiton:



Which group is this coz it is given the same gift as the group that will be with Nabi Isa!

It is good development that now a days Ahadees and their sources are readily available on Internet. But one should remain very conscious about fabrication. Original sources are always recommended. Same is true about available Urdu translations. I had faced such problems in the past.

 

[Dubious]

Good thing but some times the Personal messaging is not available.

only for titled members but mods can put 2 normal members in 1 PM...just need to ask them

It is good development that now a days Ahadees and their sources are readily available on Internet. But one should remain very conscious about fabrication. Original sources are always recommended. Same is true about available Urdu translations. I had faced such problems in the past.

I agree....and that is why I never read just 1 source....I usually read a few websites before posting...

1) When the armies of Khurasan rise it is inevitable for them to conquer the Indus region to move towards Middle east.

2) This Hadith is not mentioned in the authentic Hadees book, It is considered as weak Hadees.

3) Muslims of Indian sub continent started using this hadees only after the formation of Pakistan.

4) The Arabs, Turks who invaded India never mentioned this Hadees.

5) Dr. Israr Ahmed described this Hadees as a combination of two or more Hadees, It seems they mixed the Hadees of "end of times" with that of Gazwa of Hind which happened a long time ago, during the times of Gaznavi and Ghori.

Source?

why not question something if you don't know and if you don't understand???

Who isnt questioning? Isnt this thread up and doing just that?

 

[Srinivas]

only for titled members but mods can put 2 normal members in 1 PM...just need to ask them
I agree....and that is why I never read just 1 source....I usually read a few websites before posting...
Source?
Who isnt questioning? Isnt this thread up and doing just that?

Go and search on the internet .......










okay ...., anyway

here it is

1. Just a brief look at these will make it clear that none of these five ahadees are found in Sihah-e-Sitta. Two of these appear to be in the collections of ahadees by Imam Nisai but not in Sunan an-Nisai al Sughra, the book considered to be among the Sihah-e-Sitta, the six books considered most reliable by main-stream Muslims.

The Myth of Ghazwa-tul-Hind | Secular Pakistan

 

[vitalsign]

Why can't you question it? Just like any Sacred book, Koran is also a scripture. Its native language is in Arabic. From what I can see and know, probably 90% of Muslims outside of Arab countries, don't read and speak Arabic. So they have no idea what they are reading about.

This is where the terrorism comes in, idiot mullahs have used this inability to actually know the true translation and have done their translations that have very extremist point of views, and those are used to make a loyal fan base, and then use this fan base in violent activities like Shiite's vs. Sunni', and to even killing people as "non believers". When the reference of "People of the Book" has come up many times, referring to people not only believing in Islam, but people who have the scripture like Torah / First Testament / Gospel, etc. And the main reason why Muslims, are allowed inter-faith marriages with Jews and Christians.

So, back to the same thing, why not question something if you don't know and if you don't understand??? I think ANY God would want you to know his word clearly so you may follow it. Doesn't matter what religion you come from. Its common sense. Isn't it in Islam where it was said to Go get education from China if you have to? Referring to one of the longest distances centuries ago? As you can see with this one statement, acquiring knowledge has been made mandatory for your success, even if you have to take pain to get it or travel away from your family and VERY VERY long distances. So why is it that the religion wouldn't want you to question what you don't understand, and see the true meaning from multiple sources (knowing that mullahs have their own jihad mill going on and they'll probably give you their little version)??? I think you owe it to yourself, your children and to even whatever God you believe in, to understand the true context of your religion and how you can impact other humans and live with them in peace, harmony, without violent and for mutual growth!!

"On the authority of Abu Hurayrah Abdur’Rahman ibn Sakhr (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saying”: “What I have forbidden you, stay away from. What I have ordered you to do, do as much of it as you can. Verily, the people before you were destroyed only because of their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their prophets”.

Reported in Bukhari and Muslim

For reference: Hadith 9. Excessive questioning | Hadith Commentary

 

[Dubious]

Go and search on the internet .......










okay ...., anyway

here it is



The Myth of Ghazwa-tul-Hind | Secular Pakistan

and I posted from a website which is not secular (meaning free from religion)

"On the authority of Abu Hurayrah Abdur’Rahman ibn Sakhr (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saying”: “What I have forbidden you, stay away from. What I have ordered you to do, do as much of it as you can. Verily, the people before you were destroyed only because of their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their prophets”.

Reported in Bukhari and Muslim

For reference: Hadith 9. Excessive questioning | Hadith Commentary

This is not right...

In the Quran it has repeatedly asked ...."koi hai jo souchay samjhay"

Now if you do "souch" you will come up with questions...

Nabi Adam asked questions no one stopped him Nabi Ibrahim asked questions he came to ALLAH through his questions...I can actually prove from the Quran that questioning is encouraged! What is discouraged is mischief - to question for the sake of confusing the other...and causing mischief!

 

[Srinivas]

and I posted from a website which is not secular (meaning free from religion)

Seems secular know more than you in this regard.

Secular do not mean no religion, it is detaching religion from State machinery.

 

[Mutakalim]

Go and search on the internet .......










okay ...., anyway

here it is



The Myth of Ghazwa-tul-Hind | Secular Pakistan

Ahadees which are not in Sihah doesn't means that they are fabricated. Thousand of Ahadees which are not present in Sihah sitta are considered Sahih.

 

[Srinivas]

Ahadees which are not in Sihah doesn't means that they are fabricated. Thousand of Ahadees which are not present in Sihah sitta are considered Sahih.

May be but the this Hadees which is not mentioned in Sihah-e-sitta and which is not mentioned even during the arab invasion of sindh is considered as a weak one.

 

[Dubious]

Seems secular know more than you in this regard.

Just because you agree with them or because that is really said in the books they wish not to touch?

Secular do not mean no religion, it is detaching religion from State machinery.

That is the political meaning what is the social meaning?

Yea sure read from a secular who isnt even absorbing what he is reading:

The secularist outlook is basically one that starts by marginalizing God, or sometimes even announcing His death, placing the human at the centre of the universe as its logo. The complex duality of transcendental monotheism is replaced by a sharp dualism between the human being and nature, which manifests itself through a conflict between the two; while at the same time attempting to explain human nature by focusing solely on its physical or material dimension.

Sihah-e-sitta

explain what this means mr expert in someone else's religion

is not mentioned even during the arab invasion of sindh is considered as a weak one.

read what I pasted from the authentic site

Go troll elsewhere in a topic where you wont look like a fool

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I have an issue with the name ghazwa e hind. A ghazwa is a battle in which Rasool (SAW) fought himself. Secondly the muslims did attack india and ruled it for a thousand years. Was that what our prophet (saw) referring to or another battle? He had also told the muslims when they were still second class citizens in makkah that they would one day rule the byzantine and the persian empire (two super powers of the time) and a while later it came true. Can someone with knowledge help me in this regard as well? Thank you

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No this battle has to be fought because in one Hadees on topic he said after conquering and arresting leaders of Hind Muslims will go to join Hazrat ESA AS

There is also this concept;
The Ottoman Flag or Turkey was the Flag of Medina which was handed over to Hazrat Ayub Ansari to wave it over Constantinople (Istanbul). Today that Flag is of Pakistan it was presented by the Turkish people because AttaTurk had changed the Green to Red (the colour of Blood).

If this is true then the presence of the Flag of Medina is going to be considered to that of Prophet Muhammad hence it would constitute to be a Ghazwa.

@waz, @Akheilos
can you ask some Turkish members to confirm.. As far as the name known of Hazrat Ayub Ansari in Turkey is EYUP SULTAN.

 

[Srinivas]

Just because you agree with them or because that is really said in the books they wish not to touch?


That is the political meaning what is the social meaning?

Yea sure read from a secular who isnt even absorbing what he is reading:

Gandhi is a secular who used to roam with Bagavad Gita in his hand. There is only one meaning of secularism.

 

[Mutakalim]

This is not right...

In the Quran it has repeatedly asked ...."koi hai jo souchay samjhay"

Now if you do "souch" you will come up with questions...

Nabi Adam asked questions no one stopped him Nabi Ibrahim asked questions he came to ALLAH through his questions...I can actually prove from the Quran that questioning is encouraged! What is discouraged is mischief - to question for the sake of confusing the other...and causing mischief!

Questioning is not forbidden but objection is.