Chakar The Great
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Lol where is India????
Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China
- Thread starter INDIAPOSITIVE
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India has Russian Akula and their own SSBN.
90 billion for 12 electric subs, I be pissed as well.
Path-Finder
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this isn't the 19th century.
FuturePAF
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This transfer of Nuclear technology to Australia despite being a signatory to the NPT, may normalize such transfers between countries; and could allow Pakistan to form a small fleet of 3-4 SSN armed with a dozen or more DF-100 class Hypersonic cruise/ballistic missiles (1000+ km range) via VLS tubes behind the sail, which would be a potent second strike capability.
China may step up SSN production based on this news from Australia, and that could drop the price of each submarine to one which Pakistan maybe able to afford if spread out over a couple of decades.
It’s not unlikely, IMHO, Pakistan could lease a Type 093 for a modest minimum second strike capability, until these submarines are built, and this single submarine could be put to sea in times of uncertain, to signal to the world, that Pakistan has the resolve.
In peace time, these SSNs could be used by the PN to protect the SLOCs between East Africa, all the way up Pakistan. while the same area could be a bastion in which Pakistan’s second strike force patrols, especially if the DF-100 has the 3000 km range some sources claim.
Btw, info on China’s most advanced operational submarine:
This is not theoretical, here is the actual submarine, the Type 093G. Notice the raised section behind the sail for VLS tubes. If Pakistan leases just one and gets a dozen or so DF-100s it could hold a dozen of India’s largest cities in check. That would at a minimum bog down a large part of the Indian navy in an attempt to chase down.
China may step up SSN production based on this news from Australia, and that could drop the price of each submarine to one which Pakistan maybe able to afford if spread out over a couple of decades.
It’s not unlikely, IMHO, Pakistan could lease a Type 093 for a modest minimum second strike capability, until these submarines are built, and this single submarine could be put to sea in times of uncertain, to signal to the world, that Pakistan has the resolve.
In peace time, these SSNs could be used by the PN to protect the SLOCs between East Africa, all the way up Pakistan. while the same area could be a bastion in which Pakistan’s second strike force patrols, especially if the DF-100 has the 3000 km range some sources claim.
Btw, info on China’s most advanced operational submarine:
This is not theoretical, here is the actual submarine, the Type 093G. Notice the raised section behind the sail for VLS tubes. If Pakistan leases just one and gets a dozen or so DF-100s it could hold a dozen of India’s largest cities in check. That would at a minimum bog down a large part of the Indian navy in an attempt to chase down.
Last edited:
aziqbal
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Australia: Strategic shifts led it to acquire nuclear subs
Australia: Strategic shifts led it to acquire nuclear subs
By ROD McGUIRKtoday
1 of 2
In this photo provided by U.S. Navy, the Virginia-class fast-attack submarine USS Illinois (SSN 786) returns home to Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam from a deployment in the 7th Fleet area of responsibility on Sept. 13, 2021.Australia decided to invest in U.S. nuclear-powered submarines and dump its contract with France to build diesel-electric submarines because of a changed strategic environment, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Thursday, Sept. 16, 2021. (Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Michael B. Zingaro/U.S. Navy via AP)
CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Australia has canceled a contract with France for conventional submarines and instead will build nuclear-powered submarines using U.S. technology because of changing strategic conditions in the region, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Thursday.
President Joe Biden announced on Wednesday a new U.S. security alliance with Australia and Britain that will help equip Australia with a nuclear submarine fleet.
The agreement would make Australia the first country without nuclear weapons to obtain nuclear-powered submarines.
Morrison said U.S. nuclear submarine technology wasn’t available to Australia in 2016 when it entered a 56 billion Australian dollar ($43 billion) deal with France to build 12 of the world’s largest conventional diesel-electric submarines. The United States has previously only shared the technology with Britain.
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Biden did not mention China by name in announcing the new security alliance, but it is likely to be seen as a provocative move by Beijing, whose military strength and influence have grown rapidly.
Peter Jennings, head of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute think tank, said Australia’s decision to acquire nuclear submarines was a response to China’s increasing military might, aggressive bullying of Australia and intimidation of Japan and Taiwan.
“We should call the first submarine in this new category the ‘Xi Jinping,’ because no person is more responsible for Australia going down this track than the current leader of the Chinese Communist Party,” Jennings said.
Australia notified France that it will end its contract with DCNS, a majority state-owned company, to build the conventional submarines. Australia has spent AU$2.4 billion ($1.8 billion) on the project since 2016. The first of the French-designed submarines was to have been delivered in 2027.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian expressed “total incomprehension” at the decision and criticized both Australia and the United States.
“It was really a stab in the back. We built a relationship of trust with Australia, and this trust was betrayed,” Le Drian said Thursday on France-Info radio.
Morrison said he told French President Emanuel Macron in June that there were “very real issues about whether a conventional submarine capability” would address Australia’s strategic security needs in the Indo-Pacific.
“Of course they’re disappointed,” Morrison said. “They’ve been good partners. This is about our strategic interest, our strategic capability requirements and a changed strategic environment and we’ve had to take that decision.”
Unlike nuclear-powered submarines, conventional subs that are traveling long distances must spend time on the surface, where they are most vulnerable, using their diesel engines while they recharge their batteries. The batteries propel them underwater.
Morrison said he expects the first of the nuclear subs, which are to be constructed in the Australian city of Adelaide, will be built by 2040.
He said Australia hasn’t decided which class of nuclear submarines it will select and does not know how much the fleet of at least eight submarines will cost. But the country’s defense budget will grow above the current 2.2% of gross domestic product, he said.
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told Parliament on Thursday that the alliance with Australia and the U.S. is a “new pillar of a strategy demonstrating Britain’s generational commitment to the security of the Indo-Pacific.”
Stressing Britain’s long-standing close relationship with Australia, he said the alliance also shows “how we can help one of our oldest friends to preserve regional stability.”
Paul Keating, a former Australian prime minister from the opposition Labor Party and an adviser to the state-owned China Development Bank, slammed the new nuclear alliance, saying “materiel dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate.”
Left out of the new alliance is Australia’s South Pacific neighbor New Zealand, which enacted policies in the 1980s to ensure it remains nuclear-free. That includes a ban on nuclear-powered ships entering New Zealand ports, a stance which has seen it clash at times with the U.S.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Thursday that New Zealand wasn’t asked to be part of the alliance and wouldn’t have expected an invitation.
“The centerpiece, the anchor of this arrangement are nuclear-powered submarines,” Ardern said. “And it will be very clear to all New Zealanders, and to Australia, why New Zealand would not wish to be a part of that project.”
Ardern said the new alliance doesn’t diminish its close ties to the U.S., Britain and Australia.
Morrison said Ardern was the first foreign leader he called to explain the new alliance. He later called the leaders of Japan and India, which together with the United States and Australia form the Quad security dialogue.
“She was my first call because of the strength of our relationship and the relationship between our countries,” Morrison said. “All in the region will benefit from the peace and the stability and security that this partnership will add to our region.”
The Chinese government has long suspended minister-to-minister contact with Australia because of soured bilateral relations. But Morrison said he was willing to discuss the new alliance with President Xi Jinping.
“There’s an open invitation for President Xi to discuss these and many other matters,” Morrison said.
“I believe and hope we would both share the same objective of a peaceful Indo-Pacific where the sovereignty and independence of nations is understood and respected and that enables their own citizens to flourish,” he said.
Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Zhao Lijian said it was “highly irresponsible” for the U.S. and Britain to export the nuclear technology, and that Australia was to blame for a breakdown in bilateral relations.
“The most urgent task is for Australia to correctly recognize the reasons for the setbacks in the relations between the two countries, and think carefully whether to treat China as a partner or a threat,” Zhao said.
___
Associated Press journalists Nick Perry in Wellington, New Zealand, Angela Charlton in Paris and Sylvia Hui in London contributed to this report.
___
A previous version of this story has been corrected to show that the first submarine will be built by 2040, not within a decade.
Australia: Strategic shifts led it to acquire nuclear subs
By ROD McGUIRKtoday
1 of 2
In this photo provided by U.S. Navy, the Virginia-class fast-attack submarine USS Illinois (SSN 786) returns home to Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam from a deployment in the 7th Fleet area of responsibility on Sept. 13, 2021.Australia decided to invest in U.S. nuclear-powered submarines and dump its contract with France to build diesel-electric submarines because of a changed strategic environment, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Thursday, Sept. 16, 2021. (Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Michael B. Zingaro/U.S. Navy via AP)
CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Australia has canceled a contract with France for conventional submarines and instead will build nuclear-powered submarines using U.S. technology because of changing strategic conditions in the region, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Thursday.
President Joe Biden announced on Wednesday a new U.S. security alliance with Australia and Britain that will help equip Australia with a nuclear submarine fleet.
The agreement would make Australia the first country without nuclear weapons to obtain nuclear-powered submarines.
Morrison said U.S. nuclear submarine technology wasn’t available to Australia in 2016 when it entered a 56 billion Australian dollar ($43 billion) deal with France to build 12 of the world’s largest conventional diesel-electric submarines. The United States has previously only shared the technology with Britain.
ADVERTISEMENT
Biden did not mention China by name in announcing the new security alliance, but it is likely to be seen as a provocative move by Beijing, whose military strength and influence have grown rapidly.
Peter Jennings, head of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute think tank, said Australia’s decision to acquire nuclear submarines was a response to China’s increasing military might, aggressive bullying of Australia and intimidation of Japan and Taiwan.
“We should call the first submarine in this new category the ‘Xi Jinping,’ because no person is more responsible for Australia going down this track than the current leader of the Chinese Communist Party,” Jennings said.
Australia notified France that it will end its contract with DCNS, a majority state-owned company, to build the conventional submarines. Australia has spent AU$2.4 billion ($1.8 billion) on the project since 2016. The first of the French-designed submarines was to have been delivered in 2027.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian expressed “total incomprehension” at the decision and criticized both Australia and the United States.
“It was really a stab in the back. We built a relationship of trust with Australia, and this trust was betrayed,” Le Drian said Thursday on France-Info radio.
Morrison said he told French President Emanuel Macron in June that there were “very real issues about whether a conventional submarine capability” would address Australia’s strategic security needs in the Indo-Pacific.
“Of course they’re disappointed,” Morrison said. “They’ve been good partners. This is about our strategic interest, our strategic capability requirements and a changed strategic environment and we’ve had to take that decision.”
Unlike nuclear-powered submarines, conventional subs that are traveling long distances must spend time on the surface, where they are most vulnerable, using their diesel engines while they recharge their batteries. The batteries propel them underwater.
Morrison said he expects the first of the nuclear subs, which are to be constructed in the Australian city of Adelaide, will be built by 2040.
He said Australia hasn’t decided which class of nuclear submarines it will select and does not know how much the fleet of at least eight submarines will cost. But the country’s defense budget will grow above the current 2.2% of gross domestic product, he said.
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told Parliament on Thursday that the alliance with Australia and the U.S. is a “new pillar of a strategy demonstrating Britain’s generational commitment to the security of the Indo-Pacific.”
Stressing Britain’s long-standing close relationship with Australia, he said the alliance also shows “how we can help one of our oldest friends to preserve regional stability.”
Paul Keating, a former Australian prime minister from the opposition Labor Party and an adviser to the state-owned China Development Bank, slammed the new nuclear alliance, saying “materiel dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate.”
Left out of the new alliance is Australia’s South Pacific neighbor New Zealand, which enacted policies in the 1980s to ensure it remains nuclear-free. That includes a ban on nuclear-powered ships entering New Zealand ports, a stance which has seen it clash at times with the U.S.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Thursday that New Zealand wasn’t asked to be part of the alliance and wouldn’t have expected an invitation.
“The centerpiece, the anchor of this arrangement are nuclear-powered submarines,” Ardern said. “And it will be very clear to all New Zealanders, and to Australia, why New Zealand would not wish to be a part of that project.”
Ardern said the new alliance doesn’t diminish its close ties to the U.S., Britain and Australia.
Morrison said Ardern was the first foreign leader he called to explain the new alliance. He later called the leaders of Japan and India, which together with the United States and Australia form the Quad security dialogue.
“She was my first call because of the strength of our relationship and the relationship between our countries,” Morrison said. “All in the region will benefit from the peace and the stability and security that this partnership will add to our region.”
The Chinese government has long suspended minister-to-minister contact with Australia because of soured bilateral relations. But Morrison said he was willing to discuss the new alliance with President Xi Jinping.
“There’s an open invitation for President Xi to discuss these and many other matters,” Morrison said.
“I believe and hope we would both share the same objective of a peaceful Indo-Pacific where the sovereignty and independence of nations is understood and respected and that enables their own citizens to flourish,” he said.
Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Zhao Lijian said it was “highly irresponsible” for the U.S. and Britain to export the nuclear technology, and that Australia was to blame for a breakdown in bilateral relations.
“The most urgent task is for Australia to correctly recognize the reasons for the setbacks in the relations between the two countries, and think carefully whether to treat China as a partner or a threat,” Zhao said.
___
Associated Press journalists Nick Perry in Wellington, New Zealand, Angela Charlton in Paris and Sylvia Hui in London contributed to this report.
___
A previous version of this story has been corrected to show that the first submarine will be built by 2040, not within a decade.
Ali_Baba
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Rolls-Royce and BAE set to benefit after Australia spurns French submarines
Australia sinking French hopes to supply a fleet of submarines opens up huge opportunities for UK and US defence firms - but comes with risk
www.telegraph.co.uk
Dalit
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Is this the new trio? We already have a quad.
This will force China to build up its armed forces to a whole new level. The Americans need to understand that resources aren't an issue for China. The more the Americans and its cheerleaders agitate China the more motivated China will become to face the challange. The Americans are fighting a lost war.
This will force China to build up its armed forces to a whole new level. The Americans need to understand that resources aren't an issue for China. The more the Americans and its cheerleaders agitate China the more motivated China will become to face the challange. The Americans are fighting a lost war.
TheDarkKnight
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No wonder French wont be added in this, otherwise it would become
FAUUK US.
FAUUK US.
Arulmozhi Varman
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Correction. 3rd SSBN likely getting launched next year prolly delayed due to covid. The 2nd SSBN is already under sea trails.
Please have pity on Chinese cheerleaders as that is the only thing they can do.
Stryker1982
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Sometimes it seems like the Aussie government is firmly in the pocket of China due to high immigration of Chinese people, and Chinese wealth that has bought large swathes of real estate and assets. Same with Canada, selling the country to the highest bidder.
Ali_Baba
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French Tantrums ...
www.dailymail.co.uk
www.yahoo.com
www.cnbc.com
localnews8.com
French are throwing a tantrum hoping to get this nuclear sub deal cancelled and the previous order re-instated or have things thrown their way to "shut up". Lets see if the USA/UK bow down to the usual French drama ...
Arrogant EU wanted to be "consulted first"... WTF ...
www.dailymail.co.uk
Deal was finalisd during Cornwall summit (over British Fish I hope .. ):
www.dailymail.co.uk
French officials CANCEL gala dinner celebrating ties with US
French officials on Thursday canceled a gala to mark ties with the U.S. amid fury at Washington's role in wrecking a $90billion submarine deal with Australia.
France canceled an event celebrating US-French relations amid outrage over a scrapped submarine deal
A French official told The New York Times that under the circumstances, it would be "ridiculous" to go forward with the event.
France is so mad about the Australia submarine deal that it canceled a big party in D.C.
French officials in Washington canceled a gala at their compound over frustration with the new security partnership between the U.S., U.K. and Australia.
France cancels Washington reception and tones down celebrations of US-French Revolutionary War victory amid submarine spat - Local News 8
By Alex Marquardt, Jennifer Hansler and Kylie Atwood, CNN Amid a rift over a new security agreement between the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom, the French Embassy in Washington has canceled a Washington reception and toned down celebrations commemorating a Revolutionary War...
localnews8.com
French are throwing a tantrum hoping to get this nuclear sub deal cancelled and the previous order re-instated or have things thrown their way to "shut up". Lets see if the USA/UK bow down to the usual French drama ...
Arrogant EU wanted to be "consulted first"... WTF ...
Furious EU complains it was 'not consulted' on AUKUS submarine deal
Josep Borrell, the EU's high representative for foreign affairs, said the union was only made aware of the new alliance between the UK, US and Australia through the media.
Deal was finalisd during Cornwall summit (over British Fish I hope .. ):
AUKUS submarine deal with sealed at the G7 summit
The meeting was the culmination of an 18-month plot by Mr Morrison to acquire nuclear submarine technology, and ended with Australia getting its hands on at least eight vessels.
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Ali_Baba
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French RIPOFF pricing of their products ...
www.dailymail.co.uk
AUKUS submarine deal with sealed at the G7 summit
The meeting was the culmination of an 18-month plot by Mr Morrison to acquire nuclear submarine technology, and ended with Australia getting its hands on at least eight vessels.
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